Morrissey Central "WAR IS OLD, ART IS YOUNG" (August 29, 2024)

August 29, 2024

In June 2024 AEG Entertainment Group made a lucrative offer to both Morrissey and Marr to tour worldwide as 'The Smiths' throughout 2025.
Morrissey said Yes to the offer; Marr ignored the offer.

Morrissey undertakes a largely sold out tour of the USA in November.
Marr continues to tour as a special guest to New Order.

WAR IS OLD, ART IS YOUNG - MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY - MORRISSEY CENTRAL - WAR IS OLD, ART IS YOUNG

MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY on MORRISSEY CENTRAL

www.morrisseycentral.com

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Related item:

• Morrissey-solo.com: "Johnny Marr uses Nigel Farage image to dismiss reunion talk" - August 27, 2024

 

[Amy]

I think Morrissey is trying to get in the news and it worked. If he wasn't such an expert proven liar, I would not be doubting it.
On the other hand, if it's true, and Johnny just ignored the offer Morrissey is probably dying to know why and is trying to make this a public conversation and force Johnny to respond. I think Johnny should just stay silent because I don't think he should respond to anything Morrissey says or give these rabid unrealistic fans any hope. And to be perfectly honest, reading on here that there is some sexual component to the problems between them is just sickening. Just because a man is gay or bi doesn't mean he is lusting after his married friend or his friend who had a girlfriend when they met. Reducing this to sex is really kind of perverted.

What on earth? There was obvious, one-sided romantic tension between Morrissey and Marr way back when and that's all those posts were referring to. It has been mentioned and written about a thousand times in books, interviews etc - Marr literally said that they fell in love with each other for Christ's sake, but he was straight and that was that. Morrissey himself has been asked several times. If that sickens you then there is something wrong with you, wtf.

 

[Mimi Ramone]

What on earth? There was obvious, one-sided romantic tension between Morrissey and Marr way back when and that's all those posts were referring to. It has been mentioned and written about a thousand times in books, interviews etc - Marr literally said that they fell in love with each other for Christ's sake, but he was straight and that was that. Morrissey himself has been asked several times. If that sickens you then there is something wrong with you, wtf.

 Yeah, its not about sexual tension and lusting over someone alone. Nobody said that. Fact is, they had - on their own separate two accounts, and they're the only ones that really know about this - a very special one of a kind relationship, as close as you can be without being lovers. And they both have reinforced this image of their relationship over time. Johnny even literally says this in his autobio, which always struck me as interesting, being written in ca. 2015 or so, when their relationship already wasn't the best anymore:

I don't know if something ever happened between them but they undeniably were so close with each other that they're still able to hurt each other in a special way today, bitching about 40 years later like a divorced couple, because they both can't let go, otherwise they just would ignore each other. I think, this plays a huge role in their relationship, because if they were that close and suddenly they weren't, something really severe must have happened that separated their special bond. Johnny said, that he was emotionally traumatised by one person in particular, when the Smiths broke up and I have a feeling that he didn't mean Andy or Mike. You can't see them today without having in mind, that Morrissey was and still is obsessed with Johnny (and was probably in love with him) and Johnny probably really didn't know how to act on that, having this super intimate close friend. I think all this stuff we don't know about fuels the petty fire between them, they still know how to exactly push each other's buttons.

 

[Vesper Nocturne]

What’s The Smiths? And to whom? Anyway, it would be something to see them together on stage. One would be delusional to expect it to be the same. And it’s possible it could be better.

I agree with this so hard!!! It’s the first thing I thought. The thing is people are very myopic - I guess as a species - but apparently ESPECIALLY when it comes to anything Smiths/Morrissey, lol!!

When i think about the reality that Johnny’s just spent the last 40 years meticulously devoted to his craft and presumably very interested and committed to new explorations during this time that will have allowed him to continue to refine and continue to improve his own already-even-40years-ago unparalleled technique and output even more, … and Morrissey! Who similarly, is a completely different singer than he was in his youth - and only in all the best ways that ever could have happened. He is vocally at the top of his game, imbuing his songs and performances with a physicality and with an ownership and with a richness that are absolutely peerless, so I mean, how could it not all be even better??

Looking for sameness is really boring, excruciatingly, painfully boring, and people that want anything or anybody in life to be the same as 40 years ago must be some kind of dry cardboard cutouts of human beings, because they surely can’t be real.

Life is about new experiences, and growth, and about people becoming better, and better, and better, and more complex, and more interesting, and with even more to offer as the years pass

 

[JerryCan]

You mean you think there never was an offer from AEG? I haven't seen it confirmed anywhere either. Was Morrissey was just trying to insert himself in the Oasis wall to wall news hype? Do you think he may have lied about it?

I think the best thing Johnny could say is "What offer? What is he talking about?"

It's interesting how people are now looking again at their close relationship and how this may be affecting this news and Johnny's lack of response.
An explanation is that Angie took the phone call from AEG, then "forgot" to mention it to him. She may have written a note but then buried it behind all the others on the fridge door.
People keep mentioning Noel's wife being the issue with Liam, but from the M&M biogs I got the impression that Moz got on very well with Angie.

 

[Vesper Nocturne]

Jokes aside. What would make them want to be on stage together for more than ten minutes? Ah, don’t underestimate the power of music! It brought them together then, and can still bring them together now. Even if for different reasons.

the only way to be in ‘25? Is handsome, two handsome devils

View attachment 109955

The truth is that the thought of a hypothetical Smiths reunion tour in ‘25, or ever, is way too much for my brain to be able to think about.

I mean from the perspective that I was 12 when I discovered them and that it completely blew my mind that I had missed all of it already… like for years and years and years, i mean i think that feeling was probably the most visceral formative years feeling that i ever had in my life. So from that perspective, the thought of it all has so much associated with it in my head.

But then i was lying in bed last night and the thought just flashed in front of me that as exciting and as great as that would hypothetically be if it ever happened… i can’t say that i am any less excited by the thought of the upcoming shows in November. I really cannot.

I am still super dying to see him!

 

[JerryCan]

But then i was lying in bed last night and the thought just flashed in front of me that as exciting and as great as that would hypothetically be if it ever happened…

Yes would be fab but for all of the reasons in the many pages of this thread it may have to remain a dream. At least we have the new shows coming up for Moz. Johnny is actually where he decided he'd rather be all those years ago.

 

[Vesper Nocturne]

Yes would be fab but for all of the reasons in the many pages of this thread it may have to remain a dream. At least we have the new shows coming up for Moz. Johnny is actually where he decided he'd rather be all those years ago.

All I know is that human relationships are very complex, and someone can want to see someone or be happy to entertain the thought of collaborating again one minute, and then change their minds the next. And that’s not even a straightforward correlation of how much one person might like the other person, there is timing, there are all kinds of other things that must come into play.

So while i wouldn’t pin all my hopes on a reunion tour, that would be more for personal reasons. As in like, i would be drowning in my own floods of tears for any of those shows that i might not be at, lol.

My point is, people can change their minds about what they want, and about “where they’ve decided they’d rather be” as you put it, from one millisecond to the next. Nevermind from what someone may have wanted decades and decades and decades ago. Things change. People change. Usually/hopefully for the better.

Morrissey was right to make the New Order support quip. And “special guest” of anyone, at any show, is like you’re being used to inflate someone else’s audience/ popularity/ticket sales. It is ultimately always being used as the support act.

Morrissey’s always been able to see things very clearly. Yes, he took self-deprecation to a new level of art form, but make no mistake, his intellect is absolutely razor-sharp. He was just pointing out the obvious to Johnny with that comment. And he couldn’t have been more right.

 

[Vesper Nocturne]

oh god, lol, and no one even get me started on the Oasis comeback. I forgot to comment about that one! They never even went anywhere! Not to mention Oasis never were anything other than drunk-sing-along-anthems for a bunch of totally shitfaced people.

And that’s also totally fine! Because there were a lot of drunk people in the world in the 90s and some of them probably still are, lol!

But yeah, sorry. I don’t see how anything-Oasis can be compared to anything-Smiths. Not even potential reunion tours.

 

[Grim Reaper]

I agree with this so hard!!! It’s the first thing I thought. The thing is people are very myopic - I guess as a species - but apparently ESPECIALLY when it comes to anything Smiths/Morrissey, lol!!

When i think about the reality that Johnny’s just spent the last 40 years meticulously devoted to his craft and presumably very interested and committed to new explorations during this time that will have allowed him to continue to refine and continue to improve his own already-even-40years-ago unparalleled technique and output even more, … and Morrissey! Who similarly, is a completely different singer than he was in his youth - and only in all the best ways that ever could have happened. He is vocally at the top of his game, imbuing his songs and performances with a physicality and with an ownership and with a richness that are absolutely peerless, so I mean, how could it not all be even better??

Looking for sameness is really boring, excruciatingly, painfully boring, and people that want anything or anybody in life to be the same as 40 years ago must be some kind of dry cardboard cutouts of human beings, because they surely can’t be real.

Life is about new experiences, and growth, and about people becoming better, and better, and better, and more complex, and more interesting, and with even more to offer as the years pass

Marr has moved on, he's had and still has a varied and interesting career doing what he wants to do without all the psychodrama and unreliability that comes with Morrissey. He still plays and sometimes changes up Smiths era tracks when he wants to, so there's no great change that Morrissey would bring to that aspect of the music for him.

There's loads of risk and potential downsides to working with Moz for Marr, just because Morrissey wants a payout as he's nearing the end of his time doesn't mean Marr should change course. Now if both really want to work together as equals(the New Order dig doesn't suggest respect) for the music and not just a huge payout that would be different. Otherwise the M&M mash ups in the other thread are good enough.

 

[Thewlis]

Johnny first tweet since Morrissey’s Central post:

 

[NealCassidy]

Morrissey claims Johnny Marr ignored lucrative Smiths reunion offer

Singer issues statement saying he accepted AEG Entertainment Group proposal for 2025 tour but guitarist did not

www.theguardian.com

 

[JerryCan]

Johnny first tweet since Morrissey’s Central post:

"Let the slamming waves decide my fate."

 

[Stephen Hofmann]

Far too many dodgy lyrics.

He should spend more time on the lyrics. He doesn't have much else to do.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

He should spend more time on the lyrics. He doesn't have much else to do.

Very true.

 

[Anonymous]

At least Johnny hasn't immediately responded with a photo of Donald Trump. That has to count for something.

 

[Amy]

 Yeah, its not about sexual tension and lusting over someone alone. Nobody said that. Fact is, they had - on their own separate two accounts, and they're the only ones that really know about this - a very special one of a kind relationship, as close as you can be without being lovers. And they both have reinforced this image of their relationship over time. Johnny even literally says this in his autobio, which always struck me as interesting, being written in ca. 2015 or so, when their relationship already wasn't the best anymore:

View attachment 110109
I don't know if something ever happened between them but they undeniably were so close with each other that they're still able to hurt each other in a special way today, bitching about 40 years later like a divorced couple, because they both can't let go, otherwise they just would ignore each other. I think, this plays a huge role in their relationship, because if they were that close and suddenly they weren't, something really severe must have happened that separated their special bond. Johnny said, that he was emotionally traumatised by one person in particular, when the Smiths broke up and I have a feeling that he didn't mean Andy or Mike. You can't see them today without having in mind, that Morrissey was and still is obsessed with Johnny (and was probably in love with him) and Johnny probably really didn't know how to act on that, having this super intimate close friend. I think all this stuff we don't know about fuels the petty fire between them, they still know how to exactly push each other's buttons.

Perfectly expressed, thank you for wording this so beautifully.

 

[Southpaw80]

I wonder if the anticipated demand for this is somewhat over-estimated: Moz and Johnny both play the songs live, Andy has passed and Mike won't get a look-in. So it'll be the two of them and a makeshift rhythm section. It would maybe be different if we'd never heard the songs played live in so many years but that's not the case. I don't see it happening ever but the retirement coffers uptake may prove too hard to resist for some.

 

[Rufusindigo]

All I know is that human relationships are very complex, and someone can want to see someone or be happy to entertain the thought of collaborating again one minute, and then change their minds the next. And that’s not even a straightforward correlation of how much one person might like the other person, there is timing, there are all kinds of other things that must come into play.

So while i wouldn’t pin all my hopes on a reunion tour, that would be more for personal reasons. As in like, i would be drowning in my own floods of tears for any of those shows that i might not be at, lol.

My point is, people can change their minds about what they want, and about “where they’ve decided they’d rather be” as you put it, from one millisecond to the next. Nevermind from what someone may have wanted decades and decades and decades ago. Things change. People change. Usually/hopefully for the better.

Morrissey was right to make the New Order support quip. And “special guest” of anyone, at any show, is like you’re being used to inflate someone else’s audience/ popularity/ticket sales. It is ultimately always being used as the support act.

Morrissey’s always been able to see things very clearly. Yes, he took self-deprecation to a new level of art form, but make no mistake, his intellect is absolutely razor-sharp. He was just pointing out the obvious to Johnny with that comment. And he couldn’t have been more right.

Exactly! One of the things about M's tweet is that, despite everyone's preconceptions about him, it shows that he is capable of considerable psychological flexibility i.e. changing his mind. I don't understand why the whole MSM and now JM seem to want to define him by comments he made 5 years ago. No one allows him the space for the fact he may have changed his mind since then, since he's clearly changed his mind about The Smiths reunion for whatever reason. (By the way, I'm not saying he should change his mind, just that everyone in the press seems to love defining him in this way and writing him off). Whereas there are other people (Bowie's Nazi salute, Eric Clapton etc) who are forgiven and allowed to move on. Is this because it is to JM's benefit to demonise him? To me it shows that JM is far more rigid in his opinions than M.......fan of both btw.....

 

[Anonymous]

I would expect Johnny to have a lot of conflicting thoughts on this. Mostly that he really, really doesn't need this drama again, and would be far better off staying as he is.

On the other hand, surely he must remember the magic that he and Morrissey created the first time round, and wonder if there could be any spark of that left. Could you really turn your back on that chance?

 

[Mrs Delaney]

Without Andy it wouldn't be The Smiths, however capable a replacement they could find. It would be Morrissey & Marr, which is fine, but I wouldn't shell out for that. Buy the inevitable live album perhaps.

(Went to see the reformed Velvet Underground back in the day. Left underwhelmed. Johnny need only see 3 seconds of that live dvd, John Cale eating his bass guitar out of frustration because of Lou Reed's prima donna behaviour, to decide reformations aren't worth it.)