Morrissey Central "WAR IS OLD, ART IS YOUNG" (August 29, 2024)

August 29, 2024

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In June 2024 AEG Entertainment Group made a lucrative offer to both Morrissey and Marr to tour worldwide as 'The Smiths' throughout 2025.
Morrissey said Yes to the offer; Marr ignored the offer.

Morrissey undertakes a largely sold out tour of the USA in November.
Marr continues to tour as a special guest to New Order.



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What about Stephen Street? He did a good enough job of bass playing on Viva Hate and was essentially the "fifth Smith" anyway. They could still get Craig to fill in on additional guitar.

Morrissey
Marr
Street
Joyce (or replacement drummer)
Gannon
Technically surely this has to be the best workable lineup?
 
Arghh, I hate being pessimistic about the chances of a Smiths reunion, especially because I'd love for younger people & those who didn't get to see the band the first time 'round to have an opportunity to do so now. However, the prospect of that reunion seem so remote to me - apart from the reasons which posters have already detailed, I feel that Morrissey's and Johnny's egos/pride/sense of self-worth would get in the way:

it appears clear that Mortissey has no regard for Johnny as a frontman, and the idea that JM might be or become a more successful solo artist than Morrissey does not and cannot compute for M.

Meanwhile, Johnny has frequently seemed content to make guest appearances onstage or on recordings, 'merely' because he's a friend and/or admirer of those performers; but I'm not at all sure that he'd be satisfied with - again - being obliged to be Morrissey's sidekick onstage...and, given Morrissey's undoubted star-quality, that's how it'd inevitably end up: Johnny, as brilliant a musician as he is, isn't the focus of attention like Morrissey has always been; and I think that for all kinds of reasons Johnny just won't put up with his secondary role anymore, not secondary to Morrissey anyway. It's just a massively fraught, antagonistic relationship they have now - they both resent and envy each other and all that has poisoned the affection they once had for one another.

NB. I'm not taking sides here - the two of them are as bad (and as good) as each other. Just as they've always been.
 
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Just dreaming for a moment that Morrissey and Marr could both say yes. I do think Johnny would want the support of his current band but, for me, if it truly is the case that "War is old" then Mike Joyce should be there.
 
Yes they definitely lost their way, fist time I saw them was at The Octagon in Sheffield and they were brilliant, later I saw them at Sheffield Arena and they were crap, the last time was at V Fest which turned out to be their last gig before splitting,
Would love to have seen them in their prime
 
If it happens, Johnny will be the musical director so it will have to be his current band. They already know the songs and can play them to perfection.

Yes probably as a tight working band ready to go, but to have it leaning towards personnel with appropriate Smiths connections and cover Andy's sad passing - I like MIG's aforementioned lineup: Moz, Marr, Joyce, Gannon, Street. That covers it all and may be what the AEG money men will want for authenticity and magical Oasis-like dynamic ticket £££s.

Except of course problems abound. Mike could get vetoed and Craig may not be considered having been dropped before (despite being such a boost). SS wasn't allowed to share stage glory before and may not again.

So Moz stepping into Johnny's band does sounds simplest - as he could have done for years if not for all the issues.

There's also Ms loyalty to Jesse to consider. After so many years as No1 how would he deal with all this going on? Will he be ok watching from the wings?
 
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Yes probably as a tight working band ready to go, but to have it leaning towards personnel with appropriate Smiths connections and cover Andy's sad passing - I like MIG's aforementioned lineup: Moz, Marr, Joyce, Gannon, Street. That covers it all and may be what the MSG money men will want for authenticity and magical Oasis-like dynamic ticket £££s.

Except of course problems abound. Mike could get vetoed and Craig may not be considered having been dropped before (despite being such a boost). SS wasn't allowed to share stage glory before and may not again.

So Moz stepping into Johnny's band does sounds simplest - as he could have done for years if not for all the issues.

There's also Ms loyalty to Jessie to consider. After so many years as No1 how would he deal with all this going on? Will he be ok watching from the wings?
The guy on bass is a brilliant musician, he used to be in a band called Haven (who Joe Moss discovered, hence the Johnny Marr connection) who released a couple of albums in the early 2000's and when he's not playing in Johnny's band he is the guitarist/lead singer in Sea Fever who also include Tom Chapman and Phil Cunningham from New Order.
 
Johnny, as brilliant a musician as he is, isn't the focus of attention like Morrissey has always been; and I think that for all kinds of reasons Johnny just won't put up with his secondary role anymore, not secondary to Morrissey anyway. It's just a massively fraught, antagonistic relationship they have now - they both resent and envy each other and all that has poisoned the affection they once had for one another.

NB. I'm not taking sides here - the two of them are as bad (and as good) as each other. Just as they've always been.
But do you really think this is how Johnny would see it? That he has, or that he is perceived by people to have, only a secondary tole? Johnny knows how talented he is, and he has a very enthusiastic fanbase in his own right. Isn’t projecting onto him that he would see himself only in a “secondary role” doing him a bit of a disservice?

I’m sure he has some chips on his shoulders, don’t all humans? But he is firstly and formostly a guitarist and musician, not a singer. It’s not “secondary”, unless the sole ambition is to be the sole frontman. I don’t think it would necessarily be fair for anyone to make the assumption that Johnny’s sole ambition, is to be the sole fromtman.

I do sincerely think he took a very wrong turn there awhile back, when he took his goody-two-shoes-ness one step too far at the point that he agreed with the press, made and inferred the negative comments toward and about Morrissey, and the just purely awful thing of his kid. For someone who clearly prides himself on getting along with everyone, all of that was a big, big misstep, and completely unneccesary. But people can forgive each other for missteps. I think he just got momentarily carried away a bit.

However the last part of what you wrote, I hope is completely untrue. I hope that’s not how they feel about each other at all. Guys can be really kind of jabby in the way they interact with each other, and I wouldn’t necessarily project a negative spin on that kind of dynmanic either. The dynamic of sonething can be specific to two people, or specific and applicable sometimes only to one single conversation, or anything in between. Dynamics can also change. Nothing stays the same between any two people forever, because the dynamic will continue to evolve into something new. Everything moves forward all the time.

If you want to get right down to the bones of something, one fact that seems fairly constant is that ultimately, all human relationships are driven forward in some way, by conflict.

The other interesting thing, which is also a great thing, is that no two human beings are only the sum of their particularities.

There is always so, so much more.
 
To be honest, Vesper, I don't really consider Johnny to be the main obstacle to a possible reunion. For instance, posters have mentioned potential line-ups and also the likelihood (and preferability) of Morrissey working with Johnny's band; I reckon Morrissey would be 'paranoid' - i.e. distrustful of (supposed) loyalists to JM - about such conditions, and that alone would make the reunion prospect a very unlikely one.
 
But do you really think this is how Johnny would see it? That he has, or that he is perceived by people to have, only a secondary tole? Johnny knows how talented he is, and he has a very enthusiastic fanbase in his own right. Isn’t projecting onto him that he would see himself only in a “secondary role” doing him a bit of a disservice?

I’m sure he has some chips on his shoulders, don’t all humans? But he is firstly and formostly a guitarist and musician, not a singer. It’s not “secondary”, unless the sole ambition is to be the sole frontman. I don’t think it would necessarily be fair for anyone to make the assumption that Johnny’s sole ambition, is to be the sole fromtman.

I do sincerely think he took a very wrong turn there awhile back, when he took his goody-two-shoes-ness one step too far at the point that he agreed with the press, made and inferred the negative comments toward and about Morrissey, and the just purely awful thing of his kid. For someone who clearly prides himself on getting along with everyone, all of that was a big, big misstep, and completely unneccesary. But people can forgive each other for missteps. I think he just got momentarily carried away a bit.

However the last part of what you wrote, I hope is completely untrue. I hope that’s not how they feel about each other at all. Guys can be really kind of jabby in the way they interact with each other, and I wouldn’t necessarily project a negative spin on that kind of dynmanic either. The dynamic of sonething can be specific to two people, or specific and applicable sometimes only to one single conversation, or anything in between. Dynamics can also change. Nothing stays the same between any two people forever, because the dynamic will continue to evolve into something new. Everything moves forward all the time.

If you want to get right down to the bones of something, one fact that seems fairly constant is that ultimately, all human relationships are driven forward in some way, by conflict.

The other interesting thing, which is also a great thing, is that no two human beings are only the sum of their particularities.

There is always so, so much more.
If it were possible to like this post 25 times, I would.
 
It's just a massively fraught, antagonistic relationship they have now - they both resent and envy each other and all that has poisoned the affection they once had for one another.
I really hope this isn't true. As shit as things are - and they are shockingly, horribly shit - Moz still wished Johnny good health to enjoy his career, even in the open letter. In 1994 ... in 2004, at the peak of his powers - Moz had every opportunity to turn round and mock Johnny for his lack of similar success, lack of ambition, desire to session quietly etc and he just never did. I think what he resents now is his own situation, and how he has been treated by the Press etc, but not Johnny personally.

Way back in the mists of time... Morrissey tried to encourage Johnny to sing backing vocals, but he just never wanted to. He was very nice about Johnny's voice. There have been plenty of times when JM has allowed other 'guests' to sing and has gone back to guitar. By his own admission, he only ended up as a solo 'singer' because of the logistics and difficulties involved with getting the public on board with a 'new' singer.
 
For instance, posters have mentioned potential line-ups and also the likelihood (and preferability) of Morrissey working with Johnny's band; I reckon Morrissey would be 'paranoid' - i.e. distrustful of (supposed) loyalists to JM - about such conditions, and that alone would make the reunion prospect a very unlikely one.
There are so many potential blockages. I can't see Morrissey just agreeing to walk into whatever setup Johnny has, and leave all his old familiar faces that he trusts, and agree to spend x months touring with a bunch of strangers. At a minimum he'll probably want to bring along his current tour manager to run everything, various crew members, and quite probably Jesse as well.

I'm sure the reverse is true for Johnny, and he wouldn't want to be just walk into Morrissey's setup and be completely isolated. Some kind of mashup between the two camps seems the most likely, and even then you've got potential issues and headaches - are Sam and Nile going to be trading blows backstage, fighting over the social media feeds etc. A couple of isolated gigs might work without too much friction, but a full on reunion tour is going to take a lot of work to put together so everyone is happy.

And ultimately I think this would be doing everything arse-backwards. Johnny and Moz need to repair their relationship first, before agreeing to work together.
 

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