Morrissey Central "WAR IS OLD, ART IS YOUNG" (August 29, 2024)

August 29, 2024

In June 2024 AEG Entertainment Group made a lucrative offer to both Morrissey and Marr to tour worldwide as 'The Smiths' throughout 2025.
Morrissey said Yes to the offer; Marr ignored the offer.

Morrissey undertakes a largely sold out tour of the USA in November.
Marr continues to tour as a special guest to New Order.

WAR IS OLD, ART IS YOUNG - MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY - MORRISSEY CENTRAL - WAR IS OLD, ART IS YOUNG

MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY on MORRISSEY CENTRAL

www.morrisseycentral.com

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Related item:

• Morrissey-solo.com: "Johnny Marr uses Nigel Farage image to dismiss reunion talk" - August 27, 2024

 

[Redacted]

I don't know why you worry about their relationship, Johnny Marr is clearly a very happy guy who has moved on. Moz annoys the f*** out of him, i don't think Moz can change or would want to so it's done, over, dead.

I think you would have to see some major olive branch coming from Moz to change that dynamic.

It's obviously not coming from a rational place, but a place of child like fantasy. Inventing scenarios, saying they were romantically and sexually in love, saying songs are about Johnny when they are not, quoting lyrics in the cringiest way possible - they need mommy and daddy to get back together. I really do think it comes from a deeper place than fandom, it's emotionally stunted.

I think Johnny seems happy now too and at this stage in his life, he probably does not have any desire to revisit something he left 40 years ago. Even when he was open to it, Morrissey shut it down. Morrissey has burned almost every single bridge between himself and other people, Johnny keeps friends for decades - they are different. Johnny moved on from Morrissey, and Morrissey had moved on from Johnny until he thought he'd be useful to him at a time when his career is at an all time low.

 

[Amy]

It's obviously not coming from a rational place, but a place of child like fantasy. Inventing scenarios, saying they were romantically and sexually in love, saying songs are about Johnny when they are not, quoting lyrics in the cringiest way possible - they need mommy and daddy to get back together. I really do think it comes from a deeper place than fandom, it's emotionally stunted.

I think Johnny seems happy now too and at this stage in his life, he probably does not have any desire to revisit something he left 40 years ago. Even when he was open to it, Morrissey shut it down. Morrissey has burned almost every single bridge between himself and other people, Johnny keeps friends for decades - they are different. Johnny moved on from Morrissey, and Morrissey had moved on from Johnny until he thought he'd be useful to him at a time when his career is at an all time low.

As much as I find your complete about-turn when it comes to Johnny interesting, and sometimes I agree with a lot of what you post, you have a pervasive bitterness that I don't understand.

Not keen on modern Moz? Fine. Not keen on Johnny? Don't see why anybody would be fussing about them? Also fine, it's a big world out there. But this is a Morrissey and Smiths forum and their 'feud' was all over the news a few days ago, it's not exactly a bizarre topic.

Why you're here, when you seem to have little time for either of them, keep misconstruing parts of The Smiths history, seem grossed out by any vague reference to Morrissey's LGBT identity and just basically stir up fights, I don't know. If you no longer like them and you don't want 'Mummy and Daddy back together', what do you get out of being here? Are there no other threads you can read?

The gist I get is that you want to talk about their history, but only as a vehicle to emphasise that Morrissey is a lonely, hated, miserable, friendless bastard that nobody can stand. Do forgive me if I'd rather cling to hope of something better.

 

[SteveWS]

What can I say? Theirs were the songs that saved my life. This is part of The Smiths story - even if it's a sad, complicated part - and I'm not getting off the bus until it ends.

In my mind, truly happy people who've moved on don't talk about friendship and love one minute, write soppy gooey memoirs and then take every chance they get to snark at 'the other one' for ghosting them or whatever. They don't hoard letters, or write new ones, or make silly cracks about the other one's career. That's like getting divorced, mocking your ex-wife's new partner and expecting that no one will put 2+2 together. They are very, very visibly two stubborn people who have not moved on and as a result, can't even be civil.

And as I've said before, neither of them really has an option to "move on" as long as their careers are built on a shared musical legacy.

That post express the situation very well, I think.

For all the occasional snarkiness of their public communications, I reckon the overall and underlying tone of these & the more positive exchanges is that of regret: no matter how tempting the prospect of reunion - in personal and musucal terms - each possibly knows that it's impossible to have that magic again, in full. And whether they now pretend to themselves that they've moved on and are happier, or are wistfully wondering about what it might be like to be close again, this regret haunts them and they can't leave the subject(s) alone. And, of course, being in the eye of the media, they aren't really allowed to move on even if they sincerely wanted to. In this sense, they are 'trapped in the past', emotionally, like so many of us - an ever-present past of memories, joys, regrets, and wishes.

All that reads more depressingly and negatively than I meant it to, and it's mostly very obvious platitudes anyway, but the point possibly holds: for all their stardom, in these nostalgic and hopeful ways they are just like most of us.

 

[marred]

I wonder how the MEN could have picked up this story so quickly? Hmm.



There is another way it goes away, unfortunately, as we saw with the departure of Andy.

Just get Craig Gannon to play bass.

 

[gashonthenail]

Would I buy tickets to see Morrissey and Marr tour as The Smiths? I don't know to be honest. If Oasis tickets are anything to go by, ticket prices would be hugely inflated. And a show of just Smiths numbers? Nostalgia heaven, perhaps, but I would rather hear the likes of 'I Am Veronica' at the same time. I wouldn't much care to hear any of Johnny's recent compositions. So, not sure at all if I would want to buy a ticket. It might be 'nice' for Morrissey and Marr to put their differences aside and demonstrate to the world that 2 adults with different views can still talk to each other, but it would just be a 'nostalgia act'. I'm doubtful if such shows would generate that much 'magic'. Maybe I'm wrong. I suppose any night out at a concert or a show is what you make of it, ultimately. And Smiths nostalgia is way better than most other 80s nostalgia.

 

[Redacted]

I knew I had posted this here before and I am sure others have too, but this is what they were allegedly offered, so the $100 million figure may not be wrong.

 

[Frank Jobsworth]

It's obviously not coming from a rational place, but a place of child like fantasy. Inventing scenarios, saying they were romantically and sexually in love, saying songs are about Johnny when they are not, quoting lyrics in the cringiest way possible - they need mommy and daddy to get back together. I really do think it comes from a deeper place than fandom, it's emotionally stunted.

I think Johnny seems happy now too and at this stage in his life, he probably does not have any desire to revisit something he left 40 years ago. Even when he was open to it, Morrissey shut it down. Morrissey has burned almost every single bridge between himself and other people, Johnny keeps friends for decades - they are different. Johnny moved on from Morrissey, and Morrissey had moved on from Johnny until he thought he'd be useful to him at a time when his career is at an all time low.

I can't make out if Moz just wants a pay day or it's part of his bizarre campaign recently over being erased from the history of the Smiths(which isn't happening lol) so he can pretend he really wanted to do the tour and carry the flame of the Smiths without any real commitment.

Either way he doesn't seem at all interested in Johnny Marr, and he doesn't have to be. I would have cared like Amy about them mending their relationship maybe 10 years ago, but Marr clearly moved on around 2013.

 

[Redacted]

I can't make out if Moz just wants a pay day or it's part of his bizarre campaign recently over being erased from the history of the Smiths(which isn't happening lol) so he can pretend he really wanted to do the tour and carry the flame of the Smiths without any real commitment.

Either way he doesn't seem at all interested in Johnny Marr, and he doesn't have to be. I would have cared like Amy about them mending their relationship maybe 10 years ago, but Marr clearly moved on around 2013.

I think he wants to rehabilitate his image, so going back to a band people loved could help. I do think he may want the money, but since he turned it down before, maybe he doesn't need it or it's not a motivating factor. He could very well be pretending he wanted to do the tour so he can so he can blame Johnny for not agreeing.
I think he is desperate, his career is in shambles, he can't get a label, people are still very upset over all the cancelations last year and are tired of his narcissistic postings to Central, in addition to all the other problems he's brought on himself.
I don't know if he thinks about Johnny or not, I don't pretend to be able to get into these people's heads like some others do here. I never worried about whether they would be friends again or not because there are certainly things that happened or most certainly that we don't know about ( And I don't mean sexual or romantic. I think pinning that stereotype of Morrissey being man who is attracted to men trying to seduce a younger straight man esp one with a serious girlfriend/wife is just wrong, vile and unfair) and maybe never will and trying to judge that from the outside and say 'you must make up for me, I need you to' seems odd and out of touch, a childish view, like a fairytale needing a happy ending. Maybe they are happy just as they are and it does not resemble what some fans think Moz and Marr's happiness should look like because they can't seem to separate themselves from what is real and what is not. Just because a fan might want something, it doesn't mean M and M do and one or both are probably sick of hearing about it, sick of being asked about and just want to move on.

 

[goinghome]

»The Smiths«: Morrissey will Angebot für Comeback zugestimmt haben

Kommt nach Oasis noch eine zweite nordenglische Band zurück? Sänger Morrissey will zu einer Smiths-Welttour Ja gesagt haben, doch Gitarrist Johnny Marr habe das Angebot ignoriert. Der Grund offenbar: politische Differenzen.

www.spiegel.de

 

[Juan Dulces]

It's a shame that Andy is gone.

 

[SteveWS]

Both are very competitive, and were from the very beginning, regarding their careers (even regarding Johnny Marr, the clues to this conclusion are many; if more subtle than with Morrissey's more obvious competitiveness). Both were and are very driven, albeit in differing explicit or implict ways. And both have, perhaps, long desired to outshine the other in terms of sales and so on. Why do I think this?: because my stooopid so-called theory of each secretly wanting near-sole credit for the Smiths' excellence depends upon them having this unspoken battle, behind the public scenes.

 

[SteveWS]

Maybe I'm wrong due to my limited reading of newspapers but I've been surprised that there's so little discussion in mainstream newspapers about the prospect of a reunion. Considering the Smiths' cultural cachet, the various controversies (historical or otherwise), the passive-aggressive 'feuding' of recent times and so on, It's not as if the press ever needed an excuse to write about Morrissey in particular, after all. I'd have thought that Morrissey's & Marr's recent activities regarding a possible or impossible reunion would be much bigger news in the UK media at least...

 

[JerryCan]

Would I buy tickets to see Morrissey and Marr tour as The Smiths? I don't know to be honest. If Oasis tickets are anything to go by, ticket prices would be hugely inflated. And a show of just Smiths numbers? Nostalgia heaven, perhaps, but I would rather hear the likes of 'I Am Veronica' at the same time. I wouldn't much care to hear any of Johnny's recent compositions. So, not sure at all if I would want to buy a ticket. It might be 'nice' for Morrissey and Marr to put their differences aside and demonstrate to the world that 2 adults with different views can still talk to each other, but it would just be a 'nostalgia act'. I'm doubtful if such shows would generate that much 'magic'. Maybe I'm wrong. I suppose any night out at a concert or a show is what you make of it, ultimately. And Smiths nostalgia is way better than most other 80s nostalgia.

It will be really interesting to see what the up coming Oasis shows will be like. After the furore of the dynamic ticket shenanigans they will have to wheel out something special rather than a lackluster nostalgia dirge some have predicted, could cause another wave of riots. Skeir's already got enough on his plate and he's already being asked to sort all this. People crave this excitement just now, they need to deliver in spades.
Levels of expectation will be ramped up even more for the Smiths reunion. I would love to see Johnny play on some of Moz's tracks - not sure how it would work the other way or if M would want to. They'd both be tip-toeing around post Smiths output. Any offhand criticism could derail everything for another 40 years.

 

[Amy]

It will be really interesting to see what the up coming Oasis shows will be like. After the furore of the dynamic ticket shenanigans they will have to wheel out something special rather than a lackluster nostalgia dirge some have predicted, could cause another wave of riots. Skeir's already got enough on his plate and he's already being asked to sort all this. People crave this excitement just now, they need to deliver in spades.
Levels of expectation will be ramped up even more for the Smiths reunion. I would love to see Johnny play on some of Moz's tracks - not sure how it would work the other way or if M would want to. They'd both be tip-toeing around post Smiths output. Any offhand criticism could derail everything for another 40 years.

It will never happen, but I'd love something like the Concert in Central Park - bits of solo and band stuff with slightly different arrangements if needed. Moz singing Slow Emotion Replay, maybe a duet on New Town Velocity, they could cover Back on the Chain Gang (!), Billy Budd for obvious reasons Johnny playing on Jack the Ripper and Playboys...!

 

[Gray Fruit]

Both are very competitive, and were from the very beginning, regarding their careers (even regarding Johnny Marr, the clues to this conclusion are many; if more subtle than with Morrissey's more obvious competitiveness). Both were and are very driven, albeit in differing explicit or implict ways. And both have, perhaps, long desired to outshine the other in terms of sales and so on. Why do I think this?: because my stooopid so-called theory of each secretly wanting near-sole credit for the Smiths' excellence depends upon them having this unspoken battle, behind the public scenes.

I think you're right about that. That competition I think may fuel part of Johnny's ambition to be more, do more. Write another book, this time about guitars with not one mention of Moz. Do a show with an orchestra in the impressive new Manchester venue. Appear as a television personality on a popular panel show. Play on the Glastonbury stage with the Pretenders. Etc. etc. All that takes ambition and a lot of hard work.

The competitive spirit may fuel Morrissey as well, such as booking two arena shows in Southern California (cancelled). Undertake an ambitious world tour (half cancelled). Keep recording new albums (unreleased). Somehow, due to bad management, bad advice and a lack of follow through, these things are not all successful. The best he can manage is a Las Vegas residency which for him is probably low effort. We'll see how his American tour goes, see if he can get back in the game.

 

[DagenhamDan]

Maybe I'm wrong due to my limited reading of newspapers but I've been surprised that there's so little discussion in mainstream newspapers about the prospect of a reunion. Considering the Smiths' cultural cachet, the various controversies (historical or otherwise), the passive-aggressive 'feuding' of recent times and so on, It's not as if the press ever needed an excuse to write about Morrissey in particular, after all. I'd have thought that Morrissey's & Marr's recent activities regarding a possible or impossible reunion would be much bigger news in the UK media at least...

I think thats because in their day The Smiths were never really front page The Sun fodder, which Oasis always were. And Oasis had the 4 years of mega stardom which The Smiths never had. They were always the outsiders, Oasis were the centre of everything in '94 - '97 but The Smiths magic wasn't universally recognised until long after they split.

 

[Surface]

I think thats because in their day The Smiths were never really front page The Sun fodder, which Oasis always were. And Oasis had the 4 years of mega stardom which The Smiths never had. They were always the outsiders, Oasis were the centre of everything in '94 - '97 but The Smiths magic wasn't universally recognised until long after they split.

I agree, I also doubt there would be anything like the public interest like we've seen with the Oasis reunion. Biggest venue The Smiths played was Brixton Academy I think (apart from the G-mex Festival of the Tenth Summer gig) whereas Oasis played Wembley Stadium and a number of other stadiums back in the day.

 

[DagenhamDan]

I agree, I also doubt there would be anything like the public interest like we've seen with the Oasis reunion. Biggest venue The Smiths played was Brixton Academy I think (apart from the G-mex Festival of the Tenth Summer gig) whereas Oasis played Wembley Stadium and a number of other stadiums back in the day.

Was watching Oasis at Wembley Stadium 2000 on youtube the other day, they were bloody shite Surface. Liams voice was shot and he was missing out the last word from every other line just to piss Noel off.
Funny I spose but not if you were in the audience. Noel said it was their worst ever gig.

 

[Surface]

Was watching Oasis at Wembley Stadium 2000 on youtube the other day, they were bloody shite Surface. Liams voice was shot and he was missing out the last word from every other line just to piss Noel off.
Funny I spose but not if you were in the audience. Noel said it was their worst ever gig.

Yes they definitely lost their way, fist time I saw them was at The Octagon in Sheffield and they were brilliant, later I saw them at Sheffield Arena and they were crap, the last time was at V Fest which turned out to be their last gig before splitting,

 

[MozIsGod]

Just get Craig Gannon to play bass.

What about Stephen Street? He did a good enough job of bass playing on Viva Hate and was essentially the "fifth Smith" anyway. They could still get Craig to fill in on additional guitar.

Morrissey
Marr
Street
Joyce (or replacement drummer)
Gannon