Morrissey Central "‘THE GUARDIAN’ WILL BE HORRIFIED TO HEAR THIS" (August 2, 2024)

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Redacted said:
I agree with this, he complains that England is not English anymore, but neither is he. Obviously he can make a lot of money here in the US, but other English bands do as well without compromising their artistic integrity, which is what he does on the regular now - I think he needs to go back to his roots of the Smiths and his early solo career, because that is the kind of music he is good with, not what he is trying to do now. He won't be seen as young and hip, just the desperate old man that he is.
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Morrissey himself, like lots of his generation and the generations before and after them, was always heavily into American pop culture, that is why he went to America at 17. That doesn't mean our personalities and souls are American, far from it.
He is actually, as a person, VERY English still but as an artist, he is kinda American now. You are right
My mate said he thinks some of the reason he moved was to show the British media he didn't need them. kinda thing. I kinda believe him now, I didn't back in the day
He thinks it all started with the NME turning on him and then Brit pop came along and there was competition with other bands, he couldn't compete in the charts and maybe artistically?? with Suede, Blur , Oasis, Pulp
Brett, Jarvis, Liam, Noel were good pop stars as well. Damon Albarn was a talented musician, pop star and media manipulator. So, he thinks Moz felt like 'yesterday's news ", in the UK
You can see how old hat Moz looked on Later with..., when Jarvis was on. He was only in his 30s. Probably around the same age as Jarvis and Jarvis was way more youthful, entertaining, and witty on the show. Lots said Jarvis was more like the old Moz than Moz was.
Then the court case happened and that was the final straw, he thought "I'm not paying Joyce nish and I'll show them who the real icon and legend is" and he fled to the USA
People had goodwill in 2004 but he spent that fast in the UK
America is a big place and it took a while longer, but by 2010 things in the USA had already started to tail. Lots of people were calling him racist, saying his songs aren't as good, saying his gigs are phoned in. Then things really started to take a dive in 2014 and the drop never really stopped

The sad thing is, Moz had a great place in Pop culture and people's hearts, but his desperation has been palpable for over 14 years now it's like he started burning down all he stood for in 2004 by 2009 it was all gone and he was running on fumes, pretty much. Can you imagine pre-2000 moz, writing one of those letters saying to release Paris, after the trouble there? Can you imagine him, working with someone like Cryus per 2000, she is a Madonna rip off and he shit-talked Maddona for years., can you really imagine him writing an email almost begging to have his Cyrus record released? Can you really imagine him becoming a bit player on a hip-hop record? Can you imagine him, interviewing himself and pretending it's John Riggers? He may have had the impulse to do these things pre-2000, but he had more about him, to actually do them He has always been a chancer, but he had a firm sense of morals and how things should be and was never cheap
There is a reason why he turned down Damon Albarn to work on Gorillaz and turned down working with Noel but works with shit people like Green Day and Rocky. Its all about the American market and wanting to be seem as above other British acts. It only served to make him look worse and damage his art.
Loads of Moz fans admitted Suede's LA gigs were better than any gig Moz had done, for decades and lots are way more excited by Pulp going there to play than any new Moz gig. Lots would prefer to see Oasis reform over the Smiths. Blur's recent gigs in LA sold out quicker than Mozzers, in fact, let's be honest you could get tickets for Moz gigs for less than the sales price running up to the gigs, the blur tickets were still twice to three times the sales price, a few days before the gig. I will always prefer Moz to Brett, Liam, Noel, Damon and Jarvis but you can't live in a fan echo chamber,
 
zipp0210 said:
Morrissey himself, like lots of his generation and the generations before and after them, was always heavily into American pop culture, that is why he went to America at 17. That doesn't mean our personalities and souls are American, far from it.
He is actually, as a person, VERY English still but as an artist, he is kinda American now. You are right
My mate said he thinks some of the reason he moved was to show the British media he didn't need them. kinda thing. I kinda believe him now, I didn't back in the day
He thinks it all started with the NME turning on him and then Brit pop came along and there was competition with other bands, he couldn't compete in the charts and maybe artistically?? with Suede, Blur , Oasis, Pulp
Brett, Jarvis, Liam, Noel were good pop stars as well. Damon Albarn was a talented musician, pop star and media manipulator. So, he thinks Moz felt like 'yesterday's news ", in the UK
You can see how old hat Moz looked on Later with..., when Jarvis was on. He was only in his 30s. Probably around the same age as Jarvis and Jarvis was way more youthful, entertaining, and witty on the show. Lots said Jarvis was more like the old Moz than Moz was.
Then the court case happened and that was the final straw, he thought "I'm not paying Joyce nish and I'll show them who the real icon and legend is" and he fled to the USA
People had goodwill in 2004 but he spent that fast in the UK
America is a big place and it took a while longer, but by 2010 things in the USA had already started to tail. Lots of people were calling him racist, saying his songs aren't as good, saying his gigs are phoned in. Then things really started to take a dive in 2014 and the drop never really stopped

The sad thing is, Moz had a great place in Pop culture and people's hearts, but his desperation has been palpable for over 14 years now it's like he started burning down all he stood for in 2004 by 2009 it was all gone and he was running on fumes, pretty much. Can you imagine pre-2000 moz, writing one of those letters saying to release Paris, after the trouble there? Can you imagine him, working with someone like Cryus per 2000, she is a Madonna rip off and he shit-talked Maddona for years., can you really imagine him writing an email almost begging to have his Cyrus record released? Can you really imagine him becoming a bit player on a hip-hop record? Can you imagine him, interviewing himself and pretending it's John Riggers? He may have had the impulse to do these things pre-2000, but he had more about him, to actually do them He has always been a chancer, but he had a firm sense of morals and how things should be and was never cheap
There is a reason why he turned down Damon Albarn to work on Gorillaz and turned down working with Noel but works with shit people like Green Day and Rocky. Its all about the American market and wanting to be seem as above other British acts. It only served to make him look worse and damage his art.
Loads of Moz fans admitted Suede's LA gigs were better than any gig Moz had done, for decades and lots are way more excited by Pulp going there to play than any new Moz gig. Lots would prefer to see Oasis reform over the Smiths. Blur's recent gigs in LA sold out quicker than Mozzers, in fact, let's be honest you could get tickets for Moz gigs for less than the sales price running up to the gigs, the blur tickets were still twice to three times the sales price, a few days before the gig. I will always prefer Moz to Brett, Liam, Noel, Damon and Jarvis but you can't live in a fan echo chamber,
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Is that you, Dirk?
 
zipp0210 said:
There is a reason why he turned down Damon Albarn to work on Gorillaz and turned down working with Noel but works with shit people like Green Day and Rocky. Its all about the American market and wanting to be seem as above other British acts.
Click to expand...

"While in the Brit-pop years everybody could play with nationalist imagery (in particular with the Union Jack) without creating any scandal, in the early and mid-1990s Morrissey – who during the Your Arsenal period had sympathized with skinhead imagery, wrapped himself in the Union Jack, and written a complex and ambiguous song such as ‘The National Front Disco... – became the privileged target of a number of media attacks concerning his unclear political position. Some commentators focused on the low quality of his albums (in particular of 1995 Southpaw Grammar), often comparing them with his masterpieces in The Smiths years, while others focused on the court case with Joyce about The Smiths earnings in 1996, in which Judge Weeks described Morrissey as “devious, truculent and unreliable” (Dee 2004: 112). In short the “living sign” became a “living target”, main accusation against him was that he had embraced a number of discourses which did not fit within the much loved Smiths’ narrative.

Maladjusted (1997) was to be his last album for a very long time; Morrissey’s unfavourable media profile, the scarce success of his last work and the economic collapse of the Mercury label determined the end of (the first part, at least of) his solo career and led the artist to embark on a long exile in America and away from his beloved England.

You are the Quarry (2004) represents the return of Morrissey from the periphery, from the margins of the cultural establishment to its very centre. A return which has seen Morrissey introducing discourses about the margins in the very heart of the system, attacking its ideologies through the same channels by which he had been attacked seven years before.

Morrissey’s discographic return was preceded by a number of interviews given by the singer to the British press. Morrissey used the interview as a discursive mode to introduce some of the issues analysed in the album. On the other hand the NME – which ironically 12 years before had labelled him racist – gave extreme relevance to Morrissey’s artistic and political return, paving the way to the great success of the album.

The title, You are the Quarry, seems to make reference to the idea of dialogue. The deictic dimension is absolutely central to understanding the dialogic informing the whole album; indeed, in the different chapters of Morrissey’s work there is always an “I” referring to a you – as person or personification (for example, America) – or to a third participant in a particular space and time. The title’s “you” has at least three different referents. According to Simpson, the title is “a comment on the British media’s treatment of him as a national blood sport for much of the previous decade” (Simpson 2004: 193)..."

Pier Paulo Martino, ‘Vicar In A Tutu’: Dialogism, Iconicity and the Carnivalesque in Morrissey, 2011
 
goinghome said:
"While in the Brit-pop years everybody could play with nationalist imagery (in particular with the Union Jack) without creating any scandal, in the early and mid-1990s Morrissey – who during the Your Arsenal period had sympathized with skinhead imagery, wrapped himself in the Union Jack, and written a complex and ambiguous song such as ‘The National Front Disco... – became the privileged target of a number of media attacks concerning his unclear political position. Some commentators focused on the low quality of his albums (in particular of 1995 Southpaw Grammar), often comparing them with his masterpieces in The Smiths years, while others focused on the court case with Joyce about The Smiths earnings in 1996, in which Judge Weeks described Morrissey as “devious, truculent and unreliable” (Dee 2004: 112). In short the “living sign” became a “living target”, main accusation against him was that he had embraced a number of discourses which did not fit within the much loved Smiths’ narrative.

Maladjusted (1997) was to be his last album for a very long time; Morrissey’s unfavourable media profile, the scarce success of his last work and the economic collapse of the Mercury label determined the end of (the first part, at least of) his solo career and led the artist to embark on a long exile in America and away from his beloved England.

You are the Quarry (2004) represents the return of Morrissey from the periphery, from the margins of the cultural establishment to its very centre. A return which has seen Morrissey introducing discourses about the margins in the very heart of the system, attacking its ideologies through the same channels by which he had been attacked seven years before.

Morrissey’s discographic return was preceded by a number of interviews given by the singer to the British press. Morrissey used the interview as a discursive mode to introduce some of the issues analysed in the album. On the other hand the NME – which ironically 12 years before had labelled him racist – gave extreme relevance to Morrissey’s artistic and political return, paving the way to the great success of the album.

The title, You are the Quarry, seems to make reference to the idea of dialogue. The deictic dimension is absolutely central to understanding the dialogic informing the whole album; indeed, in the different chapters of Morrissey’s work there is always an “I” referring to a you – as person or personification (for example, America) – or to a third participant in a particular space and time. The title’s “you” has at least three different referents. According to Simpson, the title is “a comment on the British media’s treatment of him as a national blood sport for much of the previous decade” (Simpson 2004: 193)..."

Pier Paulo Martino, ‘Vicar In A Tutu’: Dialogism, Iconicity and the Carnivalesque in Morrissey, 2011
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Very interesting, I had never thought of Morrissey being a quarry for the press. Great input, as usual.
 
There is a better chance Boy George gets married to Andrew Tate than I would listen to this.

I won't even click on these links.
 
Morrissey's liaison with a hip hop artist really is the final antithesis to the northern english guitar pop of the 80s. It feels more and more like he's clinging to the US market and specifically the West Coast, where the stardom of the Heydas (of any big artist) shines forever golden. Artistic decay, Britain's migration policy or a crude view of the evolution of european identities? We don't care.
 
Has Morrissey actively contributed to this song, or has this Rocky fellow just used a sample from one of Morrissey’s songs?
 
Phranc & Open said:
Morrissey's liaison with a hip hop artist really is the final antithesis to the northern english guitar pop of the 80s. It feels more and more like he's clinging to the US market and specifically the West Coast, where the stardom of the Heydas (of any big artist) shines forever golden. Artistic decay, Britain's migration policy or a crude view of the evolution of european identities? We don't care.
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Is it also just possible that one artist got in touch with another artist, explained to him why he wanted to work with him, the other artist liked what he heard, and agreed?
 
Morrissey used to be steeped in his own identity, or what seemed to be his identity, now he doesn't have any identity at all. It's like he never existed and was completely fake.
 
TheSmiths_1985 said:
Has Morrissey actively contributed to this song, or has this Rocky fellow just used a sample from one of Morrissey’s songs?
Click to expand...
The latter is possible. But the interview in GQ did seem to suggest that Morrissey had 'showed up' when needed. I do think that GQ interview tells you everything you need to know about why Moz agreed to work with him: an androgynous star clearly not afraid to express his feminine side. Just like a young Morrissey.

www.gq.com

A$AP Rocky on Rihanna, Swedish Prison, and His Next Album

Since being released from Swedish jail in 2019, rap's foremost fashion darling has been on a journey of self-discovery, musical experimentation, and love.
www.gq.com www.gq.com
 
gashonthenail said:
Is it also just possible that one artist got in touch with another artist, explained to him why he wanted to work with him, the other artist liked what he heard, and agreed?
Click to expand...
No to Damon but Yes to Rocky? Does that make sense? Or is the symbolic appeal of working with a black artist better publicity after all?
 

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