The Times / Will Hodgkinson: "Morrissey says he is being censored. He isn’t" (September 10, 2024)

This story is now spinning up all kinds of press, like this piece in The Times by Will Hodgkinson. (Author of the AMAZING new book about Lawrence, from Felt.) As it's The Times, there's a paywall, but here the text of it all:

Morrissey says he is being censored. He isn’t

The former Smiths star has complained that his controversial album Bonfire of Teenagers has been unfairly suppressed. He should release it himself and stop playing the moaning martyr

Will Hodgkinson

Tuesday September 10 2024, 3.00pm BST, The Times


Every rock and pop critic in the country would like to persuade Morrissey to talk to them. Now that the most contrary star of them has talked (via email) to The Telegraph, I confess I’m a little jealous, but it’s a little rich to read that he thinks he is being gagged, bound and censored. Is that really the case when we’re all desperate to speak to him?

The interview focuses chiefly on Morrissey’s unreleased 2022 album Bonfire of Teenagers, which takes its name from the May 22, 2017, bombing by an Islamic fundamentalist at an Ariana Grande concert in Manchester, and the fact that it remains unreleased. The album is a victim, claims Morrissey, of “idiot culture” and the suppression of free speech.

Yet Morrissey does have free speech, which he uses regularly in messages sent out to the world via his website and picked up by the press everywhere. “There’s no arts media any more in England, therefore there’s no one to whom I can sit and talk about this,” he says in an interview in the arts pages of a newspaper. Morrissey’s dispute with Capitol Records blocked the release of the album, which featured a guest spot from Miley Cyrus until she backed off “for reasons unconnected to me”, he said. But as he stated earlier this year, he has bought back the rights to the album. He could release Bonfire of Teenagers himself today.

He says he won’t do that. Why not? Plenty of artists release their own albums in the streaming age and Morrissey is certainly a big enough name to garner big sales to his still loyal fanbase. I cannot help but suspect he likes to see himself as the outsider genius amid a confederacy of dunces, the lone voice of truth facing down the groupthink-infected hordes.

Besides, there is more than a bit of hypocrisy going on here. I remember asking Morrissey’s press officer (long gone; they change like the wind) for a ticket to review a concert, only to discover I was on some kind of naughty list for being less than effusive about a past performance. If you give it out, as every critic knows and as Morrissey does, you should be able to take it. And I would like, too, to ask him more about his support for the English Defence League founder Tommy Robinson (in 2018 he said his sentencing for contempt of court was “shocking treatment”) or for the far-right party For Britain, which he praised the same year.

Fair play to Morrissey for saying he won’t self-censor and remove the offending title song to his album. Artists have the right to express themselves and audiences have the right to agree or disagree with them. Yet all this protesting has the whiff of martyrdom and the former singer of the Smiths is no saint. In late August Morrissey whined that he and the guitarist Johnny Marr had been approached by a concert promoter with a very lucrative offer for a reunion tour but Marr wouldn’t play ball, so fans of the most revolutionary band of the 1980s were once more denied the chance to relive their youth. He went on to boast that he was selling out his US tour while Marr was reduced to playing special guest to New Order.

Yet I know which of the two men I have more sympathy for — Marr, who is one of the most liked and respected musicians out there, and who has shown integrity at refusing to reform the Smiths when to do so could afford him a handful of houses he doesn’t need. He responded to the reunion rumours by posting a photograph of Nigel Farage, seemingly a reference to the political beliefs of the singer he clearly has no desire to be in a room with ever again. Free speech does exist, and Marr has exercised his right to it by tacitly revealing why there will be no Smiths reunion.


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Do the math. You can't really argue with the numbers.
I'm all for education. Just so little of what's important in life gets taught at school. And even less at university.

I didn’t argue with the numbers. That’s the point.

What do you think should be taught at university? I myself am glad that we still have some institutions that don’t take part in the fear-mongering and downright lunacy of the extreme right. And besides that, I love the fact that universities also are havens for those people who have interests beyond the 9-5 hamster wheel. Where they can sit and ponder philosophy, the arts, religion or whatever. It’s beautiful.
 
...trust has collapsed & violence increased because of corrupt and ineffectual policing and the brazen collusion of the political uniparty of Labour and Conservatives.

You provide no rational explanation for your paranoia about Muslims.

Define 'indigenous'.

My parents came from the Republic of Ireland 🇮🇪 as did Morrissey's parents.

Am I 'indigenous'?
Is Morrissey?

What's the test? John Major's cricket 🏏 test?

One can have a passionate regard for a foreign heritage without it undermining your patriotism.

Why is a shared popular culture of importance?

Do you mean being forced to fund the fcukin BBC?

It is perfectly legitimate to query the current chaos of unvetted immigration but that's on 'us' not the new arrivals.

I support a referendum on immigration that forces the uniparty to show their hand and explain the failures to date.

I believe we need to build out infrastructure capacity in housing, health and education to provide the 'indigenous' and recent influxes of immigrants with decent public services.
What I will not tolerate is scapegoating Muslims totalising them all as part of a homogeneous blob of Islamist extremists. They're really not.

Enoch was right only in the very specific matter of highlighting the arrogant the elites in imposing their Globalist agendas without consultation. However, that's irrelevant to the issue of whether or not it's fair to frame these discussions on immigration around Muslims.

I also think the vast majority of the UK public see benefits in having fresh cultural inputs and wouldn't want a return to the homogenous Britain of the 1950s: although it sometimes as if Morrissey would like to live in a time capsule free of the complexities of this emerging global civilisation.

BrummieBoy
Malvern
Mercia
England
I would agree with much of that, BrummieBoy. But ultimately a shared sense of culture is important. That is what has helped to create the nation state over centuries. And that is what has helped to develop democracy and the common law legal protections that we all enjoy - the right not to be summarily arrested, the right to a trial of our peers. We take these things for granted at our peril. As much as 40% of Muslims would prefer Sharia Law to UK law. Younger Muslims support this more than older Muslims. All the evidence points towards Muslims in Europe becoming more extreme, not less so. The reasons for this are no doubt many, but the influence of Saudi money and Wahabism in Muslim schools must be part of it. Arranged marriage between cousins is also part of it. Rates of birth defects in Bradford, for example, are twice the national average. Mass immigration across Europe and the mass influx of undocumented refugees will almost certainly lead to social disorder and the dissolution of the nation state, and that may well be the intention. To maintain order in such a brave new world, the Chinese model of government is the only model that will maintain order. The 'imperial' model.
 
What do you think should be taught at university?
Knowledge. Debate. The ability to critique a point of view and weight up evidence. The ability to disagree with an opinion. The realisation that in order to learn and grow we need to feel unsafe at times. The simple fact that we don't have the right not to be offended.
Not quasi-religious beliefs presented as indisputable facts, such as trans women are women, or all white people have original sin.
 
Knowledge. Debate. The ability to critique a point of view and weight up evidence. The ability to disagree with an opinion. The realisation that in order to learn and grow we need to feel unsafe at times. The simple fact that we don't have the right not to be offended.
Not quasi-religious beliefs presented as indisputable facts, such as trans women are women, or all white people have original sin.
I’m sorry to hear that these absolutely basic things aren’t taught at universities in Britain, but in Sweden they’re essential. You won’t pass the basic course if you haven’t learned this. If this is really the case, then I am stunned.

But I don’t believe that trans rights are an essential part of any university.
 
I would agree with much of that, BrummieBoy. But ultimately a shared sense of culture is important. That is what has helped to create the nation state over centuries. And that is what has helped to develop democracy and the common law legal protections that we all enjoy - the right not to be summarily arrested, the right to a trial of our peers. We take these things for granted at our peril. As much as 40% of Muslims would prefer Sharia Law to UK law. Younger Muslims support this more than older Muslims. All the evidence points towards Muslims in Europe becoming more extreme, not less so. The reasons for this are no doubt many, but the influence of Saudi money and Wahabism in Muslim schools must be part of it. Arranged marriage between cousins is also part of it. Rates of birth defects in Bradford, for example, are twice the national average. Mass immigration across Europe and the mass influx of undocumented refugees will almost certainly lead to social disorder and the dissolution of the nation state, and that may well be the intention. To maintain order in such a brave new world, the Chinese model of government is the only model that will maintain order. The 'imperial' model.
Again, though, you're doing that cherry-picking thing and mixing in bits of information with melodramatic statements like "We take these things for granted at our peril."

muslims.jpg

Above is some valid and very recent polling done for the Henry Jackson Society, showing attitudes of British Muslims compared to the wider British public.

On gay marriage, for example, 17% of Brits would rather it was outlawed, while for British Muslims that number is 29%. And on homosexuality more broadly, 15% of Brits want it banned, whereas 27% of British Muslims would like that to happen. The numbers are clearly higher, absolutely, but not massively so - in fact, I suspect they parallel the numbers you'd have seen in the wider British population in the 1970s and 80s.

Ultimately I guess it all depends on how much we personally care about these things. I'm old enough now to not care so much (yes, that's selfish of me). For my three kids, though, I'm more worried: not about Sharia Law or any of that nonsense, but the simple fact that the UK's population is already too big and is only going to keep getting bigger. (ONS suggests another 6 million by 2035, most of which is from immigration.) The country's infrastructure really doesn't seem set up to cope with that.
 
But I don’t believe that trans rights are an essential part of any university.
I can't comment on universities in Sweden. But free speech is certainly under attack in Sweden and Denmark. Finland is continuing to prosecute an MP for simply posting a passage from the Bible. So there is a trend for free speech in liberal Scandinavia to be increasingly restricted and 'de facto' blasphemy laws to be created.
At universities in the UK and the USA, decolonisation is now part of science and mathematics degrees, never mind politics or philosophy. And questioning critical race theory or trans ideology at some universities will get you expelled. Less and less so, places of debate and disagreement.

 
Again, though, you're doing that cherry-picking thing and mixing in bits of information with melodramatic statements like "We take these things for granted at our peril."

View attachment 111217
Above is some valid and very recent polling done for the Henry Jackson Society, showing attitudes of British Muslims compared to the wider British public.

On gay marriage, for example, 17% of Brits would rather it was outlawed, while for British Muslims that number is 29%. And on homosexuality more broadly, 15% of Brits want it banned, whereas 27% of British Muslims would like that to happen. The numbers are clearly higher, absolutely, but not massively so - in fact, I suspect they parallel the numbers you'd have seen in the wider British population in the 1970s and 80s.

Ultimately I guess it all depends on how much we personally care about these things. I'm old enough now to not care so much (yes, that's selfish of me). For my three kids, though, I'm more worried: not about Sharia Law or any of that nonsense, but the simple fact that the UK's population is already too big and is only going to keep getting bigger. (ONS suggests another 6 million by 2035, most of which is from immigration.) The country's infrastructure really doesn't seem set up to cope with that.
As mentioned above, attitude survey data is problematic. But some surveys have suggested that as much as 50% of Muslims in the UK think that homosexuality should be outlawed.
Agree about the population. There is evidence too from mobile phone companies, and even the amount of human sewerage going through the system on a daily basis, that what is captured in the UK census is way below the actual figure - the population may well have increased by something closer to 20 million over the past few decades, not 10 million. The impact of that on public services, wages, and rents, is visible for all to see. And then people wonder why people who rely on public services, i.e. the working class, question the benefits of mass immigration.
 
I’m sorry to hear that these absolutely basic things aren’t taught at universities in Britain, but in Sweden they’re essential. You won’t pass the basic course if you haven’t learned this. If this is really the case, then I am stunned.

They are taught in universities in Britain.

Source: I've been to university, quite a few of my friends have been to university, and I've worked in the university sector since February 2018.
 
This is happening all over the US, not necessarily Haitians, but immigrants who are really here illegally. I think this article outlines the issues very well - the strain on the resources, the schools, the housing, medical services - basically everything and they receive government assistance so it's the citizen taxpayers left to foot the bill. I live in whiter than white New England, and the Dept of Justice is ordering schools to hire more ESL teachers because these children cannot speak English and this is considered 'a civil rights issue' (they are Hispanic, South American, Somalian) and the schools literacy and math proficiency rates plummet because it's racist to put the kids who speak English and can learn the subject in different classrooms. They are ending Advanced Placement courses, because racist. And that's just the school system and only a small bit of it. I am not even going to get into what they are doing with Fentanyl and how once charming New England cities are now lined with drug addicts passed out on the sidewalks waiting for emergency services to show up with narcan to revive them from their overdose.

It's not racist or bigoted to not want to watch your community turn into a third world country. There are places I used to go and streets I used to walk on that I would never go to now. I bought an alarm sytem for my house. I bought a gun. These are just necessities now and I live in what is considered a great place to live.

I think this outlines it well -

 
This is happening all over the US, not necessarily Haitians, but immigrants who are really here illegally. I think this article outlines the issues very well - the strain on the resources, the schools, the housing, medical services - basically everything and they receive government assistance so it's the citizen taxpayers left to foot the bill. I live in whiter than white New England, and the Dept of Justice is ordering schools to hire more ESL teachers because these children cannot speak English and this is considered 'a civil rights issue' (they are Hispanic, South American, Somalian) and the schools literacy and math proficiency rates plummet because it's racist to put the kids who speak English and can learn the subject in different classrooms. They are ending Advanced Placement courses, because racist. And that's just the school system and only a small bit of it. I am not even going to get into what they are doing with Fentanyl and how once charming New England cities are now lined with drug addicts passed out on the sidewalks waiting for emergency services to show up with narcan to revive them from their overdose.

It's not racist or bigoted to not want to watch your community turn into a third world country. There are places I used to go and streets I used to walk on that I would never go to now. I bought an alarm sytem for my house. I bought a gun. These are just necessities now and I live in what is considered a great place to live.

I think this outlines it well -

I think it's funny that Trump makes a colourful comment in a debate, and he's the one painted by the media as a loon. Not Harris, who supports open borders, defunding the police, and the mutilation of children. Harris did (surprisingly) ok in the debate. Trump did ok too. But he could have performed better. The media, of course, are portraying it as a Harris triumph.
 
I would agree with much of that, BrummieBoy. But ultimately a shared sense of culture is important. That is what has helped to create the nation state over centuries. And that is what has helped to develop democracy and the common law legal protections that we all enjoy - the right not to be summarily arrested, the right to a trial of our peers. We take these things for granted at our peril. As much as 40% of Muslims would prefer Sharia Law to UK law. Younger Muslims support this more than older Muslims. All the evidence points towards Muslims in Europe becoming more extreme, not less so. The reasons for this are no doubt many, but the influence of Saudi money and Wahabism in Muslim schools must be part of it. Arranged marriage between cousins is also part of it. Rates of birth defects in Bradford, for example, are twice the national average. Mass immigration across Europe and the mass influx of undocumented refugees will almost certainly lead to social disorder and the dissolution of the nation state, and that may well be the intention. To maintain order in such a brave new world, the Chinese model of government is the only model that will maintain order. The 'imperial' model.
Again, you're totalising all Muslims as being controlled by the baleful influences of Saudi Arabia and Iran's proxy wars against Western Civilisation.

Polls that ask loaded questions get loaded answers....

...what do you mean by 'Sharia Law'?

Under the Islamofascist doctrinal absurdities of certain fundamentalist interpretations of Islam, Naseebo Lal should be stoned to death for singing songs to a mixed sex audience in Middlesbrough whilst unveiled but...she's Muslim...

On a cruise ship Marmaris recently I heard the call to prayer. I looked towards the source of the muezzin sounds but didn't see minarets just a blizzard of Gucci Versace signs and a harbour full of multimillionaire Russian emigree yachts. Erdoğan is trying to weaponise Anatolia against Constantinople...I mean Istanbul, silly me! He is a fcukin clown but the legacy of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk is stronger than his 'Islamopopulist' bullshit.

Morrissey wrote a reasonable song called 'Istanbul' with a nice sub-Kashmir guitar motif. He also wrote a song called 'Israel' and turned up in Rome, much to our amusement.

We studiously ignored him there and in Tel Aviv and Constantinople...I mean Istanbul!!!

He's studied every single word I've written over decades and openly models himself on me. Always has done. It's not something I take as a compliment. As Boy George witheringly renamed Marilyn's song 'Try And Be Free':


Try and be me, Morrissey? Good luck with all that Stevphen Pratrick!

One of my key sign-offs is:

'Salaam Shalom Pax Vobiscum Agnus Dei Tahwid Anno Domini'

It's from a song entitled

'The Starman (Blackstar In The Bull Ring)' and is a clarion call for peace to the three Abrahamic religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. It's very likely to be the opening single.

Morrissey has been impersonating me since he stalked me at the Patti Smith gig at Birmingham Odeon in the late 70s. It was amusing at first but now it's time to pay him back...he has irritated me once too often, as have those Gallagher clowns...hence I'll be using AI software to bash out 6 x Smiths & 3 x Oasis pastiche albums that will vapourise the 'originals'.

Punk had a very profound effect on me. As I enter my dotage I feel as angry now as I did then but...my anger-energy is directed at traitors like Lydon, Morrissey-Marr and Liam & Noel Gallagher.

It's time to put manners on these fcukin brats...now back to guitar boot camp 🏕 👌 😎 💪...

...fun to interact here but I'm ready to confront all these wankers in 'the real world'...artistically...

You lot probably think I'm joking which will make the next few years indescribably beautiful and amusing...inshallah..

Over and out...

BrummieBoy
Malvern Hills
Mercia
England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿
 
They are taught in universities in Britain.

Source: I've been to university, quite a few of my friends have been to university, and I've worked in the university sector since February 2018.
Yes, of course. But this isn’t in line with the paranoia of the extreme right.
 
I think it's funny that Trump makes a colourful comment in a debate, and he's the one painted by the media as a loon. Not Harris, who supports open borders, defunding the police, and the mutilation of children. Harris did (surprisingly) ok in the debate. Trump did ok too. But he could have performed better. The media, of course, are portraying it as a Harris triumph.
What he said was not completely without basis, there was a woman arrested a month earlier for killing and eating a cat, but I don't think she was an immigrant. I do think he could have done a little better in the debate but completely disagree with the media that she had a stellar performance and Trump was taking her bait all the time. She basically said the same things Hillary said in 2016. I thought I was watching the same debate. She was not fact checked, he was being fact checked live by moderators in real time during the debate, which my husband and I thought really strange, even tho he was right or somewhat hyperbolic about what he was saying, but not totally wrong. There's a bit of a scandal brewing now, this was on the ABC network and I guess a whistleblower from ABC came forward and said the Harris campaign was given the questions before the debate. Hillary was in 2016 too. So this is just the Dems cheating all over again and if they win, the entire world better worry about it, because it will be bad for everyone.
 
Yes, of course. But this isn’t in line with the paranoia of the extreme right.

The one time, that I know of, that one of the institutions I work(ed) at bent to the narrow views of a student was when a known racist and former member of the National Executive Committee of the United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP) complained about receiving marketing materials that had people with black and brown skin on them.

The student complained that it's part of "white genocide" and "Cultural Marxism", so the university reacted by taking them off whole student mailing lists which contained said black and brown people, as they didn't want to have to go through the courts, considering that this student was taking their previous university to court with her spurious accusations.

Meanwhile, the rest of the student body is (rightly) expected to tolerate and accept that there are certain things they may disagree with. If you're a racist, though, the university will just bend to your will.
 
I can't comment on universities in Sweden. But free speech is certainly under attack in Sweden and Denmark. Finland is continuing to prosecute an MP for simply posting a passage from the Bible. So there is a trend for free speech in liberal Scandinavia to be increasingly restricted and 'de facto' blasphemy laws to be created.
At universities in the UK and the USA, decolonisation is now part of science and mathematics degrees, never mind politics or philosophy. And questioning critical race theory or trans ideology at some universities will get you expelled. Less and less so, places of debate and disagreement.

I’d rather not be lectured on my own country by an extremely biased right-wing foreigner. In Sweden, we have freedom of speech, but we also have something called ‘agitation against ethnic group’. For some, the balance is tricky. For most, for example those who have no interest in burning Qurans, it’s not.

Are you against decolonization?

I don’t think you’ll be expelled from university for civilly discussing both sides of either race theory or ‘trans ideology’. Is that really the case, you think?
 
The one time, that I know of, that one of the institutions I work(ed) at bent to the narrow views of a student was when a known racist and former member of the National Executive Committee of the United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP) complained about receiving marketing materials that had people with black and brown skin on them.

The student complained that it's part of "white genocide" and "Cultural Marxism", so the university reacted by taking them off whole student mailing lists which contained said black and brown people, as they didn't want to have to go through the courts, considering that this student was taking their previous university to court with her spurious accusations.

Meanwhile, the rest of the student body is (rightly) expected to tolerate and accept that there are certain things they may disagree with. If you're a racist, though, the university will just bend to your will.
Absolutely disgusting.
 
Morrissey has been impersonating me since he stalked me at the Patti Smith gig at Birmingham Odeon in the late 70s. It was amusing at first but now it's time to pay him back...he has irritated me once too often, as have those Gallagher clowns...hence I'll be using AI software to bash out 6 x Smiths & 3 x Oasis pastiche albums that will vapourise the 'originals'.
Now all is revealed.
 
I’d rather not be lectured on my own country by an extremely biased right-wing foreigner. In Sweden, we have freedom of speech, but we also have something called ‘agitation against ethnic group’. For some, the balance is tricky. For most, for example those who have no interest in burning Qurans, it’s not.

Are you against decolonization?

I don’t think you’ll be expelled from university for civilly discussing both sides of either race theory or ‘trans ideology’. Is that really the case, you think?
What's wrong with burning a Quran? Or burning a Bible? Or a Bhagavad Gita? Blasphemy is for the Middle Ages. If you are offended by it - tough. No religion deserves protection. Any more than believing in the tooth fairy deserves protection.
I'm against the idea that STEM degree courses need 'decolonising', yes.
There have been several cases in the UK of lecturers being dismissed or students being expelled for having gender critical views. There are probably dozens or hundreds more than don't make the news. The most famous case, of course, being Kathleen Stock.

 
A forum I once belonged to had a policy of disallowing any discussion of politics; to this day, I really can't decide whether that rule was a good idea or not. It certainly improved the harmony of the board, but then, nowadays so many aspects of life are affected by politics, so it's hard to avoid discussing our times.
 
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A forum I once belonged to had a policy of disallowing any discussion of politics; to this day, I really can't decide whether that rule was a good idea or not. It certainly improved the harmony of the board, but then, nowadays so many aspects of life are affected by politics...

It’s a good idea, keeps the focus on music, not eating pets.
 

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