What has happened to Bonfire of Teenagers? - media request

[Redacted]

It's a bit rich, and hypocritical, if Miley's company are seeking to guard her against the controversies associated with Morrissey, when she & they have spent some years too-hard trying to make her seem 'edgy'. Ironic that this rebranding was, surely, all about marketing (at least from the company's perspective, that is).

Forgive my ignorance but at what level is Miley's popularity these days? Is Morrissey right or wrong to believe that a released collaboration between the two would lead to this commercially 'helping him 700%'?

I don't think it was about Morrissey, the email says they are not allowing her to do any outside projects at the moment. She had an album coming out.

 

[SteveWS]

Ah, I see. Cheers.

 

[gashonthenail]

Who knows what Moz saw in Miley Cyrus? Was it the vulnerable young woman, born with a heart condition and named Destiny Hope Cyrus in the hope that she would overcome that condition and survive, and who went on to become a big star, very in keeping with the vibe of the song, I am Veronica? Or, since moving to Los Angeles all those years ago, does he just like a bit of US glitz and glamour? People from Britain and Ireland find it hard to resist the glamour of the USA, and rock and pop stars no exception, much as they might also mock it on occasion. Or did he just want the single and the album to be given a boost and sell better? Only Moz knows the answer to that one.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Who knows what Moz saw in Miley Cyrus? Was it the vulnerable young woman, born with a heart condition and named Destiny Hope Cyrus in the hope that she would overcome that condition and survive, and who went on to become a big star, very in keeping with the vibe of the song, I am Veronica? Or, since moving to Los Angeles all those years ago, does he just like a bit of US glitz and glamour? People from Britain and Ireland find it hard to resist the glamour of the USA, and rock and pop stars no exception, much as they might also mock it on occasion. Or did he just want the single and the album to be given a boost and sell better? Only Moz knows the answer to that one.

I think it’s because she simply liked him, was enthusiastic about doing the vocal and even wanted to be in the video (according to M, if I’m remembering correctly) also, and even M himself stated it would be good promotion for Bonfire if she was on it.

It seems, If you’re kind to M, he’s usually kind back.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

that line stating 'whatever the artist says over-rules the manager' tells so much of the history of his difficulties in the music business; and it's as if he can't recognise when he's - all too often - at fault regarding such difficulties. Refusing to compromise is not always an heroic stand, and it's not realistic either: commercial artists have to deal with 'the world', no matter how annoying this might be to them, and that entails dealing with those they grandly and short-sightedly consider to be mere minions.

This is what it really comes down to concerning the non release of Bonfire by Capitol. He also felt that her inclusion may help promotion, unfortunately that went against Columbia’s plans for her.

Though if Morrissey was ‘realistic’ he may have never dreamt of being an artist or singer in the first place. So where does that leave us?

 

[Vesper Nocturne]

You forgot to end with a full stop.

My natural born tendency is to always leave people hanging

 

[Gray Fruit]

Good catch, I didn't even notice that the email was about the same time as the open letter, I don't think anyone did. Now I have brand new things to think about Honestly, this really put me off Morrissey a lot. If you check out Scott Rodgers twitter there's a bit more, if you want to see it.

The open letter to Johnny Marr also came at a time that he was in a full publicity push for his album Fever Dreams which came out a month later. The behind the scenes problems with Morrissey's own album do inform that open letter and it seems to have been written out of naked jealousy and spite at his old friend's success. It really is completely over the top since Johnny hadn't really said anything except the truth that Morrissey was the only one of his collaborators that he didn't have a good relationship with.

 

[SuedeMoz]

For sure Morrissey is a stubborn, but the fact that Capitol hasn‘t commented with a single word, speaks for itself. They didn‘t even replied to his repeaten bashing.

Yeah, it shows they are professional... they aren't going to be goaded into making statements by Morrissey.

 

[Thewlis]

The open letter to Johnny Marr also came at a time that he was in a full publicity push for his album Fever Dreams which came out a month later. The behind the scenes problems with Morrissey's own album do inform that open letter and it seems to have been written out of naked jealousy and spite at his old friend's success. It really is completely over the top since Johnny hadn't really said anything except the truth that Morrissey was the only one of his collaborators that he didn't have a good relationship with.

Nah, he also said that the singer from Modest Mouse was the best lyricist he worked with and more below the belt comments.
And he definitely didn't say anything in favour of Moz regarding the press' racism accusations, something which even Mike Joyce did.
He certainly deserved that open letter, a quite funny one at that, too.

 

[SuedeMoz]

His email is Machiavellian (truculent, devious, unreliable rears it's ugly head once again ), it is manupulative and shows a complete lack of ethics or morals and Steven must have his way at any cost. Miley must defy her manager, and he is very careful to keep the conversation to putting her name on the sleeve, he never mentions she is not to be associated with this at all. The part that gets me is when he pathetically says ' I don't want to be forced to pretend it never took place' (emphasis his), he is having an absolute meltdown. Just because he can't mention her doesn't mean it didn't happen and he knows that, it's a foolish and childish thing for an almost elderly man to say. This shows he knew in or before Jan 2022 she was not to be named.
Then 8 months later Scott apparently sends and email asking again about Miley and he is told he was told no the first time and nothing should have been done without approval by Columbia.

I think what's most disgusting was the way Morrissey and his ventriloquist doll Fiona Dodwell were going on about "censorship and being silenced"... claiming Capitol is holding BOT hostage just to be cruel to him... when he knew full well the real reason BOT was not released. Moreover, he had full control over it and just had to remove/replace Miley's vocals. I get he was unhappy about it - but instead of dealing with it like an adult, he created a false narrative.

 

[Amy]

Nah, he also said that the singer from Modest Mouse was the best lyricist he worked with and more below the belt comments.
And he definitely didn't say anything in favour of Moz regarding the press' racism accusations, something which even Mike Joyce did.
He certainly deserved that open letter, a quite funny one at that, too.

But that was years ago, and Johnny isn't obligated to swoop in and clean up Morrissey's messes like a parent. Can you imagine how that letter made Moz look to Capitol and Columbia, while all this was going on with Bonfire? One look at it and they'd be thinking "God, he's not just being difficult behind closed doors, he's trying to stir up public fights as well and we'll be next in the firing line." And sure enough, he eventually went after Michelle Jubelirer in public. It's not funny, it's tragic to see a man of 60+ having tantrums and embarrassing himself like this. He hurts his own interests, the 'targets' just laugh at him and they cross him off the list and he gets even more isolated. That episode with Michelle, on its own, will have cut dead his chances with her 'networks' and so many major record labels because who in the hell would want to deal with that?

 

[SuedeMoz]

Nah, he also said that the singer from Modest Mouse was the best lyricist he worked with and more below the belt comments.
And he definitely didn't say anything in favour of Moz regarding the press' racism accusations, something which even Mike Joyce did.
He certainly deserved that open letter, a quite funny one at that, too.

Why do you assume he wasn't genuine in those comments - that it has to be a dig at Morrissey? Isn't it possible he enjoyed working with Isaac Brock more than Morrissey? I guess Marr's rejection of The Smiths reunion should please Morrissey as he's abiding by that brilliant open letter.

 

[SteveWS]

In some respects, perhaps the least-helpful thing for Morrissey's career is to be indulged by people. This, seemingly, only encourages him to try to be ever-more controlling.

 

[Thewlis]

Why do you assume he wasn't genuine in those comments - that it has to be a dig at Morrissey? Isn't it possible he enjoyed working with Isaac Brock more than Morrissey? I guess Marr's rejection of The Smiths reunion should please Morrissey as he's abiding by that brilliant open letter.

He could have been genuine, but it isn’t a nice thing to say in public and a ridiculous thing to say as well. Like Moz saying Jesse Tobias is a better guitarist than Johnny Marr.

And of course Morrissey doesn’t really want Johnny to stop mentioning him, that wasn’t the purpose of the letter. He just wants him to say something nice about him, if only once.

Is that really too much to ask?

 

[Amy]

He could have been genuine, but it isn’t a nice thing to say in public and a ridiculous thing to say as well. Like Moz saying Jesse Tobias is a better guitarist than Johnny Marr.

And of course Morrissey doesn’t really want Johnny to stop mentioning him, that wasn’t the purpose of the letter. He just wants him to say something nice about him, if only once.

Is that really too much to ask?

He has said lots of nice things.. but the press never report them. Snarking makes better copy.

 

[Thewlis]

He has said lots of nice things.. but the press never report them. Snarking makes better copy.

Really, in the past 7-8 years when Moz came under attack from the British press? Cannot think of one instance, please give me an example.

 

[Surface]

He could have been genuine, but it isn’t a nice thing to say in public and a ridiculous thing to say as well. Like Moz saying Jesse Tobias is a better guitarist than Johnny Marr.

And of course Morrissey doesn’t really want Johnny to stop mentioning him, that wasn’t the purpose of the letter. He just wants him to say something nice about him, if only once.

Is that really too much to ask?

Why was it a ridiculous thing to say, how do you know what he thinks.

 

[Thewlis]

Why was it a ridiculous thing to say, how do you know what he thinks.

Because he sings Morrissey’s words every single evening he performs. If he really thinks the singer from Modest Mouse is the best singer/lyricist he worked with, why not sing more or some of his songs?

 

[Amy]

Really, in the past 7-8 years when Moz came under attack from the British press? Cannot think of one instance, please give me an example.

Dear Thewlis, I could write you a list but start with Johnny's Q & A at the Oxford Union, this Vulture article, and interview with John Dorian (British Masters). Lots of reminiscing about the Smiths, so it's not always about Moz on his own, but generally he is really nice. In the Oxford event he ignores an opportunity to slag off the lyrics to Some Girls and says that Morrissey was his best mate then and he thought everything his best mate did was great. Admittedly, he's said less since the open letter, but that's probably to avoid getting a second one. Here's a nice bit from the Vulture piece:

The truth was that there was loads of love in it. So maybe that’s the story that everybody is missing. Maybe that’s a surprise that everybody who is still interested needs to be reminded of: One of the reasons why they liked the sound of it and why it sounds the way it does is because there’s so much love in it. And there was love in the making of it. There was love in the writing of it. And sure, there was drama, but what you hear was a result of stone-cold love.

 

[Surface]

Because he sings Morrissey’s words every single evening he performs. If he really thinks the singer from Modest Mouse is the best singer/lyricist he worked with, why not sing more or some of his songs?

That’s fair enough.