Morrissey Central "THE PLOT THICKENS" (September 15, 2024)

J Marr has successfully applied for 100% trademark rights / Intellectual Property ownership of The Smiths name. His application has been accepted on whatever oaths or proclamations he has put forward. This action was done without any consultation to Morrissey, and without allowing Morrissey the standard opportunity of 'objection'. Amongst many other things, this means that Marr can now tour as The Smiths using the vocalist of his choice, and it also prohibits Morrissey from using the name whilst also denying Morrissey considerable financial livelihood.

Morrissey alone created the musical unit name 'The Smiths' in May 1982.

THE PLOT THICKENS - MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY - MORRISSEY CENTRAL - THE PLOT THICKENS

MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY on MORRISSEY CENTRAL

www.morrisseycentral.com

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Media items:

• AV Club: "Morrissey claims that Johnny Marr owns name "The Smiths" now" - September 16, 2024
• NME: "Morrissey claims Johnny Marr now owns “100 per cent trademark rights and Intellectual Property” of The Smiths name" - September 16, 2024
• Stereogum: "Morrissey Says Johnny Marr Has Acquired The Smiths Trademark, Can Replace Him As Band’s Vocalist" - September 16, 2024

 

[BookishBoy]

I've looked at the Smiths trademark classes owned by Marr:
(Class 1-34 is goods, 35 to 45 is services)

Class 9: Scientific, research, navigation, surveying, photographic, cinematographic, audiovisual, optical, weighing, measuring, signalling, detecting, testing, inspecting, life-saving and teaching apparatus and instruments; apparatus and instruments for conducting, switching, transforming, accumulating, regulating or controlling the distribution or use of electricity; apparatus and instruments for recording, transmitting, reproducing or processing sound, images or data; recorded and downloadable media, computer software, blank digital or analogue recording and storage media; mechanisms for coin-operated apparatus; cash registers, calculating devices; computers and computer peripheral devices; diving suits, divers' masks, ear plugs for divers, nose clips for divers and swimmers, gloves for divers, breathing apparatus for underwater swimming; fire-extinguishing apparatus.

Class 14: Precious metals and their alloys; jewellery, precious and semi-precious stones; horological and chronometric instruments.

Class 16: Paper and cardboard; printed matter; bookbinding material; photographs; stationery and office requisites, except furniture; adhesives for stationery or household purposes; drawing materials and materials for artists; paintbrushes; instructional and teaching materials; plastic sheets, films and bags for wrapping and packaging; printers' type, printing blocks.

Class 18: Leather and imitations of leather; animal skins and hides; luggage and carrying bags; umbrellas and parasols; walking sticks; whips, harness and saddlery; collars, leashes and clothing for animals.

Class 25: Clothing, footwear, headwear.

Class 41: Education; providing of training; entertainment; sporting and cultural activities.

A single online trade mark application covering one class is £170, £50 for each subsequent class, total = £420

He's locked Morrissey out of producing some Smiths branded fire-extinguishing apparatus. The b*stard.

So now poor Moz won't be much use at an actual bonfire of teenagers.

 

[Johnnie Ray]

None. 2 dead and one has retired. But she still has it. Some good new songs too.

Kind of a pet peeve of mine. I like her but she should be a solo artist and not hide behind The Pretenders moniker. Unintentional timely topic alert!

 

[Dirk Blaggard]

I don't need more ammunition
I've got more than I can spend
I don't dwell on things I'm missing
I'm just pleased with the things I've found

I know these roads
An old hand understands
Above all, I know what's expected of me now
Veering cliffwards

Man , I miss that M,

 

[Thewlis]

Kind of a pet peeve of mine. I like her but she should be a solo artist and not hide behind The Pretenders moniker. Unintentional timely topic alert!

She did a solo album some 10 years ago, Stockholm, which was pretty good.

 

[klaus]

you've got to hand it to both of them, they have put on a 40yr masterclass of stirring up little dramas so that the smiths continue to be discussed and stay (somewhat) "relevant". it's wonderful.

 

[Phranc & Open]

She did a solo album some 10 years ago, Stockholm, which was pretty good.

She is the only person I know, who still maintains a genuine friendship with both of them at the same time and values them both equally. Of course, it's impossible to judge the extent of her influence from the outside. Didn't she even come to Morrissey's defence recently?

 

[Thewlis]

She is the only person I know, who still maintains a genuine friendship with both of them at the same time and values them both equally. Of course, it's impossible to judge the extent of her influence from the outside. Didn't she even come to Morrissey's defence recently?

Yes, one of the ‘seven’

Chrissie Hynde defends Morrissey in interview

Scans from James. Mail on Sunday ‘Event’ magazine, 04/08/18. Excerpt: She defends her pal Morrissey, who has recently been accused of racism for speaking out in favour of the far-right For Britain party and having described the Chinese as 'a sub-species' in 2010. 'I'm proud to be one of what...

www.morrissey-solo.com

I don’t think she has any ‘influence’ on either of them though, and I don’t really think she wants to either.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Some of the old Manchester crowd surely have dirt on him, that could potentially destroy his career (like Dave Haslam claimed a few years back). And even if Dave Haslam was exaggerating, Moz still is no saint as he has clearly proven. Somehow he was lucky that nobody started talking along the way but I am sure, they could start a war of worlds, too. And I fear, if he drives this further along, some people will talk.

Er... surely that's a bit unnecessary by now?

of course it’s necessary….


‘You won't sleep
Until the earth that wants me
Finally has me
Oh you've done it now
You won't rest
Until the hearse that becomes me
Finally takes me
Oh you've done it now
And you won't smile
Until my loving mouth
Is shut good and proper
Forever’






I wonder if things would have been any different all those years ago if Johnny said yes to to the reunion instead of saying no until after his gigs with the Cribs. Just speculation again, but in spite of contracts, it would have shown loyalty to the cause, the cause being the importance of doing the reunion when Morrissey suggested. Of course Marr was in his right to, and shouldn’t be expected to drop what he’s doing just to please Morrissey and immediately do the reunion. But I can imagine that it hurt Morrissey at the time.

Everything is just speculation as Johnny hasn't responded, we all know Morrissey likes to bend the truth so this could be another example of that. He could end up looking very foolish if Marr or his lawyers produce e mails or something showing that he had been made aware in 2018.

Would be nice if Marr responded publicly, but we shouldn’t expect or demand him to (not saying you are). And of course it’s better if he didn’t. As I said before, as much as Morrissey
wanted to get some things off his chest, with the open letter, it should have been done privately along with Marr’s reply to it.

Wouldn’t matter at all if emails were produced, Morrissey and the world of solo.com would still carry on as before.

I'm no IP lawyer, but the claims circulating that Marr's trademark was a full SIX YEARS ago look reasonably solid.

If Morrissey and his staff failed to notice in all that time, his tears look empty View attachment 111511

Yep, another weird Central post. He must have known, and felt it wasn’t an issue at the time(?). But I guess team Morrissey forgot that the rest of the world has the internet too and can see that Marr registered this back in 2018. Lol.

 

[manfields]

You know Amy, I suggested if Johnny wanted he could go nuclear on M, the amount of stuff he has. I think M forgets how much Johnny has protested over the years.
I got fecking monstered for saying it that as well, but I have now seen quite a few people say the same thing.
You know and I know and everyone fecking knows, the trouble M has was he went to America, where he was isolated and he was wide the feck open to be played, and he has been . He seems to have burnt all bridges, Linda thinks hes a nut case, but wont say it in public, Maker will go along with anything M says and isn't well himself, he is the last "friend " you need on your side .Jake Walters hates him with a passion (I spoke to Jake last year )
I thought up until 2020, maybe M could still turn this around. I don't think he can now. Unless, he stops typing crap on his website, which is starting to look like the Facebook account of someone who shit posts and leaves constant cries for attention status updates

I don't think the Jake thing is true? Doesn't he always post Morrissey photos on Instagram and social media?

 

[Seymour Glass]

Fact - Johnny Marr is only famous because of the words and voice of Morrissey.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

The first Electronic album and Dusk are the best things he did post-Smiths.
But agreed, after that he was looking for a new way to start which he finally managed 10 years ago with the launch of his solo career.

I think I still preserve his solo albums!

 

[Thewlis]

of course it’s necessary….


‘You won't sleep
Until the earth that wants me
Finally has me
Oh you've done it now
You won't rest
Until the hearse that becomes me
Finally takes me
Oh you've done it now
And you won't smile
Until my loving mouth
Is shut good and proper
Forever’






I wonder if things would have been any different all those years ago if Johnny said yes to to the reunion instead of saying no until after his gigs with the Cribs. Just speculation again, but in spite of contracts, it would have shown loyalty to the cause, the cause being the importance of doing the reunion when Morrissey suggested. Of course Marr was in his right to, and shouldn’t be expected to drop what he’s doing just to please Morrissey and immediately do the reunion. But I can imagine that it hurt Morrissey at the time.

What makes you think Morrissey would have said yes to the reunion in 2008? He clearly had no incentive to do so career-wise and if he would have done it he would have had big demands which I’m not sure Johnny would accept.

I don’t think we were even close to a reunion in 2008. Although with hindsight we can all agree that it was the only possible option to reunite.

 

[Famous when dead]

I don't think the Jake thing is true? Doesn't he always post Morrissey photos on Instagram and social media?

Jake's last 2 Morrissey posts were 2019 and 2020 and he's deleted a few too that I'd noticed.
Possibly due to the over-enthusiastic deluge of 'fans' and 'haters'...
Regards,
FWD.

 

[Thewlis]

I think I still preserve his solo albums!

Wow, really? Which one is your favourite?
I think Dusk and Electronic are easily 9/10 albums.
His solo albums are all 6/10 to 7/10 max.
They have some really good songs but fail to hold my attention for an entire albums length.

 

[JerryCan]

Preview of a Smiths reunion

I don't know much of JA. That looks like some kind of breakdown happening in real time. Good the crew stepped up pronto. I'd rather M would do a no show instead of something ghastly like this happening.
Reminds me of footage of a Bez and Shaun in a weird wrestling match as the band tried to keep going. Maybe the fans didn't mind.
I thought I was up to date on this thread but it's just gone exponential again.
At lease Greatest Hits Radio played EDILS this morning - cheered things up for a brief moment.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

What makes you think Morrissey would have said yes to the reunion in 2008? He clearly had no incentive to do so career-wise and if he would have done it he would have had big demands which I’m not sure Johnny would accept.

I’m sorry. Did I get the story wrong? I thought they met at a pub and discussed doing a reunion. Off hand, I’m not sure what Morrissey was doing at the time, or if he would have dropped what he was doing to do a reunion. I can’t remember all the details .
My point really, is that Morrissey may have looked at Johnny not dropping what he was doing as a snub. Of course I could be wrong about this too, it just speculation on my part.

I’m not sure of what demands Johnny would have had to accept though.

I don’t think we were even close to a reunion in 2008. Although with hindsight we can all agree that it was the only possible option to reunite.

you may be right, I don’t know.

 

[Thewlis]

I’m sorry. Did I get the story wrong? I thought they met at a pub and discussed doing a reunion. Off hand, I’m not sure what Morrissey was doing at the time, or if he would have dropped what he was doing to do a reunion. I can’t remember all the details .
My point really, is that Morrissey may have looked at Johnny not dropping what he was doing as a snub. Of course I could be wrong about this too, it just speculation on my part.

I’m not sure of what demands Johnny would have had to accept though.



you may be right, I don’t know.

This is Johnny’s account of that day:

One day in September 2008 we were only a couple of miles apart in south Manchester and arranged to meet up in a pub nearby. I was happy to see him – it was 10 years or more since we’d last met. We caught up with personal news and family and reminisced a bit.”

“Then our conversation turned to deeper things. Morrissey started to talk about how our relationship had become owned by the outside world, usually in a negative way. We had been defined by each other in most areas of our professional life. I appreciated him mentioning it, because it was true.”

“The drinks kept coming and we sat talking for hours. We chatted, as we always did, about the records we loved, and eventually we moved on to “that subject”. There had been rumours for years that The Smiths were about to re-form, and they were always untrue. I had never pursued any offer.”

“Suddenly we were talking about the possibility of the band reforming, and in that moment it seemed that with the right intention it could actually be done and might even be great. I would still work with the Cribs on our album, and Morrissey also had an album due out. We hung out for a while longer, and after even more orange juice (for me) and even more beer (for him) we hugged and said our goodbyes.”

“I was genuinely pleased to be back in touch with Morrissey, and The Cribs and I talked about the possibility of me playing some shows with The Smiths. For four days it was a very real prospect. We would have to get someone new on drums [original drummer Mike Joyce sued Morrissey and Marr over royalties in 1996], but if The Smiths wanted to re-form it would make a hell of a lot of people very happy, and with all our experience we might even be better than before.”

So they discussed it, but it wasn’t the direct reason they met and they both had other things to do as well. Why they didn’t keep in touch afterwards is anyone’s guess.

 

[Anonymous]

Fact - Johnny Marr is only famous because of the words and voice of Morrissey.

A Truer Fact -Morrissey is only famous because of Johnny Marr’s talent, drive, ambition and faith in him

 

[Anonymous]

A Truer Fact -Morrissey is only famous because of Johnny Marr’s talent, drive, ambition and faith in him

A true fact - Johnny is only famous because of the songs Morrissey created out of Johnny, Andy and John Porter's music in The Smiths.

 

[Anonymous]

This is Johnny’s account of that day:

One day in September 2008 we were only a couple of miles apart in south Manchester and arranged to meet up in a pub nearby.

So they discussed it, but it wasn’t the direct reason they met

Christ! Talk about taking things at face value! Of course it was the main reason they met.