Morrissey’s view on gender identity

He's described himself as a fourth gender & close to transsexuality.

He's worked with trans people & featured them in his intro videos & artwork.

His band currently has two queer women who support trans people.
So, he has said gender roles and social norms about gender are bull shit. Agree.
He has worked with trans people and featured them - wtf? No one has a problem with trans people.
His band is diverse - again, wtf? No one has a problem with gay people, except trans rights ideologues who want to ban lesbians and stop them from marching at Pride.
None of this relates to women and women-only spaces.
Answer the question: Do you think it is ok for a 'trans woman' to access women-only spaces? Yes or no?
 
So, you would look down on them and metaphorically spit on them. Thats basically what you are saying. I know you aren't a professional, if you can even gauge what I mean by that. It just sounds like alot of you are paranoid and transphobic, you think someones out to get you and your kids, and that people's only motivation is rape(?!), and Big Pharma is brainwashing groups of people into thinking and living a certain way, like people can't decide for themselves? Don't worry you are perfectly safe.
How on earth am I looking down on them and spitting on them?
And if we are 'safe' - why are hundreds of families suing the gender service based at the Tavistock?

 
How on earth am I looking down on them and spitting on them?
And if we are 'safe' - why are hundreds of families suing the gender service based at the Tavistock?

Because some people made the wrong decision, they weren't pushed into it. People make mistakes. I'm just urging you to be careful, because how you talk about people who are on puberty blockers, what do you want someone to do if they had been on puberty blockers during there teenage years and early 20s, thats irreversable, you want them to hide away or kill themselves because they are mutated or abnormal? I would feel terrible about myself. What if they had regretted it, or maybe it was right for them?


Many families also sue mental health services because they feel like its been an invasion and breech of their rights, thats why people have lawyers and tribunals.
 
what do you want someone to do if they had been on puberty blockers during there teenage years and early 20s, thats irreversable, you want them to hide away or kill themselves because they are mutated or abnormal? I would feel terrible about myself. What if they had regretted it, or maybe it was right for them?
NO. I want anyone who needs to access mental health or psychological services to be treated with dignity and compassion. And helped to find contentment with themselves, maybe even to be happy with who they are.
 
NO. I want anyone who needs to access mental health or psychological services to be treated with dignity and compassion. And helped to find contentment with themselves, maybe even to be happy with who they are.

I don’t want to argue, but this below is actually true. Also, I feel the thread is meant to be about Morrissey’s views, not an overall discussion about ‘practices’.

Some people may have felt rushed or confused, the communication may have been difficult, they themselves may have been convinced that it was a good decision to make, or they didn’t have time to make an informed decision. There is nothing sinister about the Tavistock, overall, taking puberty blockers shouldn’t be ‘normal’. People who felt pushed into taking puberty blockers may have made a mistake, in retrospect, mistakes and regret are part of life unfortunately.

For some people it works, is beneficial and is helpful, but there are undeniable pros and cons to the drug, and for the vast majority of people it is completely unneeded and alien, not suitable.

The ‘puberty blocker’ is actually a drug used in other areas of treatment and medicine, it lowers the production of natural sex hormones and is commonly used for the treatment of early onset puberty in children and young people, unrelated to sex change, and is most commonly used in treatment for prostate and breast cancer in adults. Puberty ‘blocker’ is a medical and media slang term, but the drug was not made specifically for transgender people, and is not as harmful as it sounds. Like most medicine, the effects of the drug depend on how mentally and physically healthy the person is before they take it, and also their life circumstances. It isn’t normal to take puberty blockers or lower sex hormones, and it shouldn’t be pushed or rushed. For a very small amount of people it is normal and doesn’t feel completely wrong.

You did make a good point about the use of the word treatment because it does imply that something is wrong with them, and of course there is nothing wrong with children who grow into themselves and not into the conventional model of men and women, which is still widely unattainable for the best of us. Even then it’s still the blueprint model for girls and boys, and still strangely desirable and attractive and safe, as it still persists. It’s like the default version of men and women. It is hard to describe what transgender is, and I don’t think ‘transgender’ or ‘trans’ is a very nice name for people, it almost sounds derogatory. I cannot summarise what it means to be alive and how society has formed itself, maybe that’s why religion is still around today. I think its called treatment to avoid the concept of ideology in medicine and therapy or councilling.
 
So, he has said gender roles and social norms about gender are bull shit. Agree.
He has worked with trans people and featured them - wtf? No one has a problem with trans people.
His band is diverse - again, wtf? No one has a problem with gay people, except trans rights ideologues who want to ban lesbians and stop them from marching at Pride.
None of this relates to women and women-only spaces.
Answer the question: Do you think it is ok for a 'trans woman' to access women-only spaces? Yes or no?

That isn't what he said.
 
having an additional group for women who are born female.
When we keep seperating people off into specific groups based on their idenity or sex, age, diganosis etc it makes people feel they are lumped with people that are meant to be like them just because of the label they fall under, its degrading. That case sounds difficult to sort out, maybe group therapy needs to be thought about differently, not sure how though. 1-1 therapy is always a good option
 
When we keep seperating people off into specific groups based on their idenity or sex, age, diganosis etc it makes people feel they are lumped with people that are meant to be like them just because of the label they fall under, its degrading.
but some people seem to want to be separated off into specific groups according to their needs. Nothing’s perfect.
That case sounds difficult to sort out, maybe group therapy needs to be thought about differently, not sure how though. 1-1 therapy is always a good option

Well, in the case of group therapy, I think Sarah’s suggestion of a separate group is the best option at this time.
 
And there are several reports of women being sexually assaulted and raped on so-called women-only wards in hospital, and vulnerable women being sexually assaulted in so-called women-only prisons.
It is true, there are men who only have sex on the brain, they are not concerned about there bodies. Its like Russell Brand, get the sex pests and rapists off the streets and drum it into their minds that rape is digusting.

Maybe get used to the idea that female and male difference is not such a big deal and people need to stop thinking about the worst that can happen, you can't erase the fact that maybe once in a long while someone may meet another who has had a sex change in a secluded space, like swimming pool changing rooms or toilets, it doesn't mean they will get assulted, and if they do... the law if bigger and will treat sexual assult in a equal manner, it doesn't matter what they idenity as, they will be punished.
 
Agree. I assume you mean a form of psychological abuse. In regards to Sarah’s story you linked in your next post?




‘However, Sarah says she felt the presence of the trans woman in the group changed the atmosphere and discussion. She says she is not transphobic, but feels she now can't use the service.

"I think it's fantastic that trans survivors feel that there is a safe space for them that they can go and seek help. But for me personally, a mixed sex space doesn't work."

She added: "I think having just one additional group for women who are born female would be the answer."






Yeah, so I think that may be the way to go. As Sarah suggested having an additional group for women who are born female.
Totally agree. I'm not suggesting that trans women should not be helped or offered a service - I'm merely suggesting that women have a right to women-only spaces.
 
I don’t want to argue, but this below is actually true. Also, I feel the thread is meant to be about Morrissey’s views, not an overall discussion about ‘practices’.

Some people may have felt rushed or confused, the communication may have been difficult, they themselves may have been convinced that it was a good decision to make, or they didn’t have time to make an informed decision. There is nothing sinister about the Tavistock, overall, taking puberty blockers shouldn’t be ‘normal’. People who felt pushed into taking puberty blockers may have made a mistake, in retrospect, mistakes and regret are part of life unfortunately.

For some people it works, is beneficial and is helpful, but there are undeniable pros and cons to the drug, and for the vast majority of people it is completely unneeded and alien, not suitable.

The ‘puberty blocker’ is actually a drug used in other areas of treatment and medicine, it lowers the production of natural sex hormones and is commonly used for the treatment of early onset puberty in children and young people, unrelated to sex change, and is most commonly used in treatment for prostate and breast cancer in adults. Puberty ‘blocker’ is a medical and media slang term, but the drug was not made specifically for transgender people, and is not as harmful as it sounds. Like most medicine, the effects of the drug depend on how mentally and physically healthy the person is before they take it, and also their life circumstances. It isn’t normal to take puberty blockers or lower sex hormones, and it shouldn’t be pushed or rushed. For a very small amount of people it is normal and doesn’t feel completely wrong.

You did make a good point about the use of the word treatment because it does imply that something is wrong with them, and of course there is nothing wrong with children who grow into themselves and not into the conventional model of men and women, which is still widely unattainable for the best of us. Even then it’s still the blueprint model for girls and boys, and still strangely desirable and attractive and safe, as it still persists. It’s like the default version of men and women. It is hard to describe what transgender is, and I don’t think ‘transgender’ or ‘trans’ is a very nice name for people, it almost sounds derogatory. I cannot summarise what it means to be alive and how society has formed itself, maybe that’s why religion is still around today. I think its called treatment to avoid the concept of ideology in medicine and therapy or councilling.
I also do not want an argument on this topic - I agree it is a topic that should be discussed sensitively. I'm aware of the nature of the drugs that are called 'puberty blockers' and their use in medicine. Many drugs used in mental health services are 'borrowed' from physical health - chlorpromazine was developed as a relaxant to give patients before surgery, lithium was originally used to treat gout. One of the best speakers and writers around on the subject of psychiatry and the medical model of treatment is Joanna Moncrieff, who is herself a psychiatrist. Her books are well worth a read.

 
When we keep seperating people off into specific groups based on their idenity or sex, age, diganosis etc it makes people feel they are lumped with people that are meant to be like them just because of the label they fall under, its degrading. That case sounds difficult to sort out, maybe group therapy needs to be thought about differently, not sure how though. 1-1 therapy is always a good option
I agree - but safeguarding is based on arbitrary use of categories such as sex and age. Blurring the category of sex, is as crazy as blurring the category of age. Some 15 year olds are mature for their age - but few would argue we should allow them to enter a bar and buy a drink based on how mature they feel inside. Why then would anyone argue that a biological man should be allowed to enter a female only space, just because they feel like a woman inside?
 
Candy Warhol is a drag queen making ripples in Cork city, who has been interviewed by Hot Press about creating gender-diverse friendly spaces.

Echoing medical aspects mentioned, is this meditation by a lesbian in late stage breast cancer about the numerous damaging gender stereotypes and impositions experienced during treatment. No pink ribbons please: we're maimed queer women -
https://aeon.co/essays/how-breast-cancer-rips-up-conventional-markers-of-gender

And someone I know who's involved in counselling people with borderline diagnoses told me of a growing tendency for some with gender conflicts to be drawn to, and become members of, Satanic cults, one in particular, because of negative attitudes they often encounter in others. Let's be nice to everyone.

A documentary has been made about this LGBTQ-positive organisation, called Hail Satan. Here's the official trailer

 
One thing's for sure - if Morrissey had grown up with his own well-documented struggles with masculinity in 2023, he would have been encouraged to think he was a woman trapped in a man's body, take puberty blockers and get medical help.
 
One thing's for sure - if Morrissey had grown up with his own well-documented struggles with masculinity in 2023, he would have been encouraged to think he was a woman trapped in a man's body, take puberty blockers and get medical help.
Maybe he would get, told he was a feminist... but he hasn't got an issue with being a man, its just the pressures and cliches of what is exspected to be a man, amongst other things which I think he finds disillusioning. You can't say for sure. I don't think he'd get treated any different to how he has been, and he would react the same
 
Candy Warhol is a drag queen making ripples in Cork city, who has been interviewed by Hot Press about creating gender-diverse friendly spaces.

Echoing medical aspects mentioned, is this meditation by a lesbian in late stage breast cancer about the numerous damaging gender stereotypes and impositions experienced during treatment. No pink ribbons please: we're maimed queer women -
https://aeon.co/essays/how-breast-cancer-rips-up-conventional-markers-of-gender

And someone I know who's involved in counselling people with borderline diagnoses told me of a growing tendency for some with gender conflicts to be drawn to, and become members of, Satanic cults, one in particular, because of negative attitudes they often encounter in others. Let's be nice to everyone.

A documentary has been made about this LGBTQ-positive organisation, called Hail Satan. Here's the official trailer



Whatever gets you through the night.

Social media has poisoned public discourse. I like Jon Ronson's work on the issue:

 
One thing's for sure - if Morrissey had grown up with his own well-documented struggles with masculinity in 2023, he would have been encouraged to think he was a woman trapped in a man's body, take puberty blockers and get medical help.
Very true. Apparently there was a joke going round the Tavistock that - if we keep going like this there won't be any gay kids left. Is it easier for some parents to have a trans kid than a gay kid? Who knows. But if there is even a chance that kids are being put on treatment too soon, then we need to stop and pause and review what we are doing in this area.
 
Maybe get used to the idea that female and male difference is not such a big deal and people need to stop thinking about the worst that can happen, you can't erase the fact that maybe once in a long while someone may meet another who has had a sex change in a secluded space, like swimming pool changing rooms or toilets, it doesn't mean they will get assulted, and if they do... the law if bigger and will treat sexual assult in a equal manner, it doesn't matter what they idenity as, they will be punished.
You really are very silly. So, what are you saying? That in the modern world women just have to accept a bit of sexual assault? Oh, but don't worry - at least they can have the assailant prosecuted.

The reason safeguarding is based on the arbitrary category of sex is not rocket science - it's because 99.9% of all rapes and sexual assault are committed by men. That is why it is a big deal for women. That is why female-only spaces are so important, especially when it comes to vulnerable women, such as rape crisis centres, inpatient facilities, or prisons.
 
It is true, there are men who only have sex on the brain, they are not concerned about there bodies. Its like Russell Brand, get the sex pests and rapists off the streets and drum it into their minds that rape is digusting.

Maybe get used to the idea that female and male difference is not such a big deal and people need to stop thinking about the worst that can happen, you can't erase the fact that maybe once in a long while someone may meet another who has had a sex change in a secluded space, like swimming pool changing rooms or toilets, it doesn't mean they will get assulted, and if they do... the law if bigger and will treat sexual assult in a equal manner, it doesn't matter what they idenity as, they will be punished.
Why are you obviously copying my username? A truly virtual “assult” if ever I’ve seen one.
 
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