Morrissey’s view on gender identity

[Malarkey]

This is like the ghost of discourse past.

Sex-based exemptions are legal in the UK.

Human rights watchdog publishes single-sex spaces guide

Transgender people can be excluded from some spaces if "justified and proportionate", the EHRC says.

www.bbc.com

 

[Frank Jobsworth]

You know what - I don’t think one working class black girl should suffer because white boy’s identity as girls. Not one. But then again I am not racsist.

The problem with suggesting that minorities should not be set up against each other, is that at present one supposed minority (made up of middle class white males that want to wear their grannies knickers), get the benefit of that over women of colour. Again and again.

I don't think anyone should suffer or lose out, we're not that far apart, you just hate one more group of people than i do.

 

[Malarkey]

Yeah. Wonder if Big Pharma pushing puberty blockers took their cue after seeing how well $$$ the vaccines (dangerous, practically untested) were/are doing when forced on populations fed on fear.

Jennifer Bilek was banging on about Big Pharma pushing puberty blockers over 10 years ago. So, no.

I don't think they created the market - I think it was there & it's become bigger. The reasons why it's bigger haven't been properly researched.

 

[Lionel Cliffhanger]

They should stop staring at cocks in the swimming pool, if i started staring at flappy bits i would get kicked out for being a sex pest, it's a swimming pool, swim. Trans people can be any race as well so i dunno what the white thing is about to be honest, perhaps i missed something you said on one of the pages(apologies if so)

As for the rest, i love my wife a fair bit, we married in a mosque(she ain't white by the way) but if she tried to exclude people from places based on her religion i wouldn't tolerate it for a second, she wouldn't though as she's pretty cool about stuff outside of pork for some reason. I don't get why you dropped religion into the argument and then somehow made religious segregation and exclusion a measure of being progressive or not which is the bit that irritated me slightly.

I

The point is that again and again (whether it is swimming pools, ‘inclusive language’ used by health authorities or many other examples I could give), the adherence to gender ideology often seems to have a negative impact on women of colour. People know this but they don’t care and make pretty appalling excuses.

Speaking of which, the reference you make to these Muslim women staring at genitals is pretty disingenuous at best. If you are attending a woman only swimming session because you can’t swim with men, it is hard not to notice. I assume you are familiar with swimming costumes…

Anyway, it’s good to have this discussion. I am enjoying our exchanges.

 

[Anonymous]

Morrissey-conspiracy theory-solo.com

Thats what this site has become, don't end up like Jordan Peterson... I have warned you...

 

[Anon in London]

I think morrissey has stood by his views on gender , and we can't be sure what those really are, hes a slippy guy. Hes not an activist, which is good. I think hes stood by these views because he has said, or implied to Think for yourself, and when people say that, as cliched as it is, you have to really think, and think rationally too. And don't start trying to think because someone told you too either, because thats not really thinking for yourself, you don't need a cue, its gut feelings then rationale. It is really hard to know

 

[marred]

I tell you what if I catch him siding with trans ideology re having kids on puberty blockers, cross sex hormones and mutilating their bodies with surgery and men in womens' sports, prisons and womens' only spaces in general he can f*** right off

 

[gashonthenail]

what would you say if you met someone who was on 'puberty blockers'? like any treatment there are pros and cons, how would you treat them?

The word 'treatment' suggests that there is something wrong with the young person. It is entirely natural and normal to have feelings of confusion about your gender as an adolescent. Especially if the young person is also maybe gay or lesbian or bisexual. Growing up and accepting who you are is the best 'treatment' for gender confusion - the evidence is clear on that. We should not medicalise what is a normal part of growing up.

 

[gashonthenail]

This is like the ghost of discourse past.

Sex-based exemptions are legal in the UK.

Human rights watchdog publishes single-sex spaces guide

Transgender people can be excluded from some spaces if "justified and proportionate", the EHRC says.

www.bbc.com

This is disingenuous.
Of course it is perfectly legal for a female hospital ward to only admit women patients, or a female prison to only house women inmates, or a rape crisis centre to have a policy of only employing women employees. But in many countries it is also perfectly legal to change your birth certificate. So in other words, a biological man can change their birth certificate, and then perfectly legally apply to work in a rape crisis centre, for example. You don't even need to change your birth certificate to get admitted to a female hospital ward, or be housed in a female prison - they will do so just on the basis of how someone 'identifies'. The Head of Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre is a 'trans woman', i.e. a man. As Julie Bindell put it so well, there is only way to describe extreme trans ideology - a misogynist men's rights movement that hates women.

Outcry over plan to educate ‘bigoted’ rape survivors about trans rights

THE head of one of Scotland’s biggest rape crisis centres has suggested “bigoted” rape survivors should be re-educated about transgender…

www.heraldscotland.com

 

[Malarkey]

This is disingenuous.
Of course it is perfectly legal for a female hospital ward to only admit women patients, or a female prison to only house women inmates, or a rape crisis centre to have a policy of only employing women employees. But in many countries it is also perfectly legal to change your birth certificate. So in other words, a biological man can change their birth certificate, and then perfectly legally apply to work in a rape crisis centre, for example. You don't even need to change your birth certificate to get admitted to a female hospital ward, or be housed in a female prison - they will do so just on the basis of how someone 'identifies'. The Head of Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre is a 'trans woman', i.e. a man. As Julie Bindell put it so well, there is only way to describe extreme trans ideology - a misogynist men's rights movement that hates women.

Outcry over plan to educate ‘bigoted’ rape survivors about trans rights

THE head of one of Scotland’s biggest rape crisis centres has suggested “bigoted” rape survivors should be re-educated about transgender…

www.heraldscotland.com

Poor Julie Bindel.

The law can actually deal with these situations & it's time activists spoke to each other in real life about their issues.

The rape crisis manager seems nice enough. You may die due the amount of times she says migrant, but I'm sure feminism will soldier bravely on.

 

[gashonthenail]

Poor Julie Bindel.

The law can actually deal with these situations & it's time activists spoke to each other in real life about their issues.

The rape crisis manager seems nice enough. You may die due the amount of times she says migrant, but I'm sure feminism will soldier bravely on.

Women who have been raped and are seeking refuge have the right to be admitted to a woman only space. To admit someone with a penis to a female rape crisis centre is ABUSE of those women.

 

[Malarkey]

Women who have been raped and are seeking refuge have the right to be admitted to a woman only space. To admit someone with a penis to a female rape crisis centre is ABUSE of those women.

There have been no sightings of such a thing & no abuse allegations. Which is more than can be said about your other hot topic.

 

[gashonthenail]

There have been no sightings of such a thing & no abuse allegations. Which is more than can be said about your other hot topic.

Not true. How many more concerns like this are there out there?

Woman suing rape charity over transgender row

"Sarah" says she felt unable to speak in a rape support group after a trans woman began attending.

www.bbc.co.uk

And there are several reports of women being sexually assaulted and raped on so-called women-only wards in hospital, and vulnerable women being sexually assaulted in so-called women-only prisons.

So, yes or no, Malarkey. Do you think it is ok for a 'trans woman' to access women-only spaces? Yes or no?

 

[Malarkey]

Not true. How many more concerns like this are there out there?

Woman suing rape charity over transgender row

"Sarah" says she felt unable to speak in a rape support group after a trans woman began attending.

www.bbc.co.uk

And there are several reports of women being sexually assaulted and raped on so-called women-only wards in hospital, and vulnerable women being sexually assaulted in so-called women-only prisons.

So, yes or no, Malarkey. Do you think it is ok for a 'trans woman' to access women-only spaces? Yes or no?

Your news item doesn't make it untrue.

 

[gashonthenail]

Your news item doesn't make it untrue.

You haven't answered the question.
The news item, not 'mine', but from the BBC, does suggest that some women might not want to get help from a rape crisis centre if there is a trans woman there. I'm sure that's not an unusual reaction in female survivors of rape and sexual assault.

 

[Malarkey]

Camila Grey on the subject:

 

[gashonthenail]

Camila Grey on the subject:

Not sure how that is relevant. Firstly, it's posted by a member of Moz's band. Secondly, it doesn't really say anything. It's anodyne stuff. Be yourself and be proud. Who wouldn't agree with that? No where does she say - and it's ok for a trans woman to be admitted to a female rape crisis centre.
Again, you haven't answered the question, just like you didn't answer Lionel Cliffhanger's questions earlier in the thread.
Do you think it is ok for a 'trans woman' to access women-only spaces? Yes or no?

 

[Malarkey]

The thread is about Morrissey's view on gender identity.

He's described himself as a fourth gender & close to transsexuality.

He's worked with trans people & featured them in his intro videos & artwork.

His band currently has two queer women who support trans people.

 

[Anonymous]

The word 'treatment' suggests that there is something wrong with the young person. It is entirely natural and normal to have feelings of confusion about your gender as an adolescent. Especially if the young person is also maybe gay or lesbian or bisexual. Growing up and accepting who you are is the best 'treatment' for gender confusion - the evidence is clear on that. We should not medicalise what is a normal part of growing up.

So, you would look down on them and metaphorically spit on them. Thats basically what you are saying. I know you aren't a professional, if you can even gauge what I mean by that. It just sounds like alot of you are paranoid and transphobic, you think someones out to get you and your kids, and that people's only motivation is rape(?!), and Big Pharma is brainwashing groups of people into thinking and living a certain way, like people can't decide for themselves? Don't worry you are perfectly safe.

 

[Anonymous]

You are all so stubborn and would hate any big decisions to be passed through any of your hands. Personally I hate virtue signalling and don't like pride, its not reflective of real people, transgender has become like a brand, and thats the problem. Too many voices and opnions, the loudest most entitled are heard and broadcas. Brands have found a way to monetize pride and a huge group of people, its done more damage than good. The internet is not filled with truth, including parts of this thread.

Morrissey is respectful and has some grace about him, he treats people equally and is not banging the drum on either side.