Inside information on Moz, Marr & management

[Thewlis]

No. Gene suggested Morrissey just do it himself anyway because no one knows or cares who Johhny is anyway. That's a touch different. And yes, it is obvious Morrissey has no desire to do anything but keep doing shows, claim his latest music is the best ever, and bemoan everything about labels and the industry, until, of course a label signs him. He'll praise the label until the point at which he doesn't get exactly what he wants, or a chart topping single, stomp his foot claim everyone is against his genius, take his ball and go home again. People like the shows, and good for him (and them). He could do a lot more, but complaining is his art too, evidently.

Yes, he definitely could do a lot more.
There are literally so many opportunities.

But he chooses to do it his way and definitely deserves credit for that. Although it won’t win him any popularity prize anytime soon, I agree.

 

[DaveJCarr]

Yes, he definitely could do a lot more.
There are literally so many opportunities.

But he chooses to do it his way and definitely deserves credit for that. Although it won’t win him any popularity prize anytime soon, I agree.

Doing it one's own way is , in some circumstances, admirable. Doing it your own way while insisting your owed other people's money, prestige the hallmarks of poplar acclaim, all the while claiming to victim of a gagging campaign while the subject of an interview in a major publication is completely pathetic.

People can think Johnny solo work is entirely forgettable, but he's still putting records and books out, and if his contracts evaporated, I guarantee he'd put his money where his principles are and self- release.

 

[Thewlis]

Doing it one's own way is , in some circumstances, admirable. Doing it your own way while insisting your owed other people's money, prestige the hallmarks of poplar acclaim, all the while claiming to victim of a gagging campaign while the subject of an interview in a major publication is completely pathetic.

People can think Johnny solo work is entirely forgettable, but he's still putting records and books out, and if his contracts evaporated, I guarantee he'd put his money where his principles are and self- release.

Johnny started his solo career late so he is still relatively fresh to it. If he had been going for 35 years he would have trouble releasing as many albums as he is now, too.

Morrissey, despite all his self-sabotaging and conflicts with record companies, has had an amazing number of solo songs and albums released. So it has more or less become his modus operandi. I don’t think he can operate in any other way.

 

[Surface]

Johnny started his solo career late so he is still relatively fresh to it. If he had been going for 35 years he would have trouble releasing as many albums as he is now, too.

Morrissey, despite all his self-sabotaging and conflicts with record companies, has had an amazing number of solo songs and albums released. So it has more or less become his modus operandi. I don’t think he can operate in any other way.

James don’t seem to have a problem releasing albums, they’ve released 3 in the last 4 years.

 

[DaveJCarr]

Johnny started his solo career late so he is still relatively fresh to it. If he had been going for 35 years he would have trouble releasing as many albums as he is now, too.

Morrissey, despite all his self-sabotaging and conflicts with record companies, has had an amazing number of solo songs and albums released. So it has more or less become his modus operandi. I don’t think he can operate in any other way.

Maybe, but you are also overlooking that Marr kept himself fresh by collaborating with Chrisse Hyndie , The Talking Heads, Modest Mouse, The Cribs, Hans Zimmer, and Billie Eilish and Fineas and on and on. We Were Dead Before The Ship Even Sank is widely and correctly considered the best Modest Mouse album too, and Marr 's sound is all over it.

A Moz Bond theme song would be splashy and the most commercially high profile thing Moz has done since the Smith. Also doing something with Chrisse, his old friend would also create buzz. Marr's versatility, reliability, and willingness to do new things, to forge useful relationships will keep him. Morrissey's most successful thing in hid post Smiths career is his own autobiography. The early solo albums, classics they may be, don't even come close to the autobiography's success.

 

[Thewlis]

Not sure I agree. Moz sold millions upon millions of his solo albums all around the world. That’s a much bigger success than his autobiography.

But yes, Johnny had a great career too, even before he went solo. They are both great, no need to diminish one’s career over the other.

 

[Amy]

Well, sounds like you're keeping the flame burning (on low?). Me, I gave up on the old Mozzer a long time ago and he's never redeemed himself, not even musically. But I do find the whole situation very amusing. Too bad Johnny Rogan isn't around to write a follow up. Somebody should because it's fascinating.

Can't help myself. But the flame is for a reconciliation before one of them dies, nothing more. If they made up and then wrapped up, that would be fine by me. I don't want another 2 decades of seeing shit slung left, right and centre.

 

[Mike Rourke]

Can't help myself. But the flame is for a reconciliation before one of them dies, nothing more. If they made up and then wrapped up, that would be fine by me. I don't want another 2 decades of seeing shit slung left, right and centre.

Seeing shit slung? Nice tongue twister!
She sees shit slung on the seashore?

 

[Jamie]

Also doing something with Chrisse, his old friend would also create buzz.

I agree with the crux of your argument but I don't think this would generate much buzz beyond we aged indie rock cognoscenti. In terms of broader awareness, not much was generated by either "My Love Life" or "Shame Is The Name" - both in much higher-profile times for both parties.

 

[Pieces of Dreams]

Just going to put this out there to the Universe....

In addition to singing,
I'd love to see him write more. Fiction, Non-Fiction, scripts...even a book of Poetry.

 

[Catholic]

Thank you. The podcast guy and David both know my name. It doesn't really make sense that I've been here since 1997, but weirdly picked *just now* to make stuff up, about a very short, specific period of time that is now over, does it? I've made no claims to know anything post September. All I've ever said is based on a lifetime of fandom, a lifetime in the music business coupled with a recent peek behind the curtain.

I hear this and trust you. Thank you. I hope other people will hear it too, including your honesty about knowing nothing post-September . . .


Also re:

I actually feel for Johnny now , because in order for him to (deservedly) cash in on his early career, he has to work with someone who is suuuuuuper unreliable. Since Morrissey was the singer, he lucked out in that he doesn't really have to use the name "The Smiths" to sell tickets since he has the recognizable voice, and there is no real penalty for having someone other than Johnny play guitar. Johnny on the other hand needs to essentially find a karaoke singer if he wants to play his Smiths catalog, and a lot more is lost in the nostalgia in having a different singer vs different guitarist.

I think you make very good points here, but I'm going to bring them up in a forthcoming response to @Amy . . .

 

[Catholic]

Kindly.... you are frothing over gossip. It was "I've heard that Marr's management did XYZ". I'm not denying that there's truth in some elements of what this guy has said about Moz, the industry and the labels etc because that is his professional area. But he's not in Johnny's camp, and hasn't claimed to be, and so he's just repeating things he's heard. Shit-stirring.

When it comes to Johnny, I trust his word more than I trust what an insider might have heard - especially one with an axe to grind about the Pete Galli mess. And, as I asked at the time too - if all these gossips were running to Moz with tales of Johnny's nefarious plans, why didn't they tell him the truth of the trademark situation before he embarrassed himself? He came out of that mess looking like a gullible fool who had no clue what was real and what wasn't. And if the main man doesn't have the full picture then I am certain that #405 on the guest list doesn't either.

I hear the "kindly" . . . thank you. And I am aware I sounded a bit hysterical, too . . .

To clarify a bit, I don't think Johnny "nefarious" for reasons you @Odbmke point out:

I actually feel for Johnny now , because in order for him to (deservedly) cash in on his early career, he has to work with someone who is suuuuuuper unreliable. Since Morrissey was the singer, he lucked out in that he doesn't really have to use the name "The Smiths" to sell tickets since he has the recognizable voice, and there is no real penalty for having someone other than Johnny play guitar. Johnny on the other hand needs to essentially find a karaoke singer if he wants to play his Smiths catalog, and a lot more is lost in the nostalgia in having a different singer vs different guitarist.

Yes, I think this completely understandable that Johnny might want this. And I think he needs a singer to maximise his magnificent music. And maybe—who knows?—he is seeing this now, after the series of solo records.

Where I perhaps start to hysterically 'froth' is this:

At this point, as a fan of the Smiths music, I'd totally be ok with and buy a ticket to see "The Smiths" with Johnny and a different singer.

The question is: could there be truth in this? Can you tell us @Odbmke if you know or have good reason to believe that what BF turned down was either

(1) some form of Smiths Mark 2 or could it just be

(2) Marr and Flowers perform the Smiths—which does seem far more likely.

This is the point on which my hysterical frothing hangs . . .

If this were (1) Smiths Mark 2, then Morrissey's reaction is far more understandable — far, far more — than if it were only (2).
I really do think feeling excluded or "cancelled" rom the Smiths like this would be a cut unfathomably deep. My heart truly goes out to him if something like this has happened.

More thoughts here. Seeing connections I didn't make before . . . Alas, little time to say them.

But anything you could say @Odbmke about (1) versus (2) would be most appreciated.

It really does seem as though it goes to the very CRUX of the matter. At least, it does to me.

 

[Odbmke]

Maybe, but you are also overlooking that Marr kept himself fresh by collaborating with Chrisse Hyndie , The Talking Heads, Modest Mouse, The Cribs, Hans Zimmer, and Billie Eilish and Fineas and on and on. We Were Dead Before The Ship Even Sank is widely and correctly considered the best Modest Mouse album too, and Marr 's sound is all over it.

A Moz Bond theme song would be splashy and the most commercially high profile thing Moz has done since the Smith. Also doing something with Chrisse, his old friend would also create buzz. Marr's versatility, reliability, and willingness to do new things, to forge useful relationships will keep him. Morrissey's most successful thing in hid post Smiths career is his own autobiography. The early solo albums, classics they may be, don't even come close to the autobiography's success.

Chrissy said something negative publicly about M recently-ish, right? Because her name came up as a potential interviewer and J had an immediate facial reaction that said both “that’s not going to happen/I wouldn’t mention her around M”.

 

[DaveJCarr]

Chrissy said something negative publicly about M recently-ish, right? Because her name came up as a potential interviewer and J had an immediate facial reaction that said both “that’s not going to happen/I wouldn’t mention her around M”.

I'm not sure. Do you mesn J as in Tobias. I am almost certain that Moz himself said in an "interview" with Sam or Fiona et all that autobiography was his most successful release. @Famous when dead does that sound familiar?

 

[TheSmiths_1985]

.even a book of Poetry.

 

[Famous when dead]

I'm not sure. Do you mesn J as in Tobias. I am almost certain that Moz himself said in an "interview" with Sam or Fiona et all that autobiography was his most successful release. @Famous when dead does that sound familiar?

It does, but may have been video interview.
Not got time to go hunting right now.
There was TTY activity in 2014 commenting on it doing well.
Probably more thereafter too.
Regards,
FWD.

 

[Odbmke]

I'm not sure. Do you mesn J as in Tobias. I am almost certain that Moz himself said in an "interview" with Sam or Fiona et all that autobiography was his most successful release. @Famous when dead does that sound familiar?

Yes, Tobias.

 

[DaveJCarr]

It does, but may have been video interview.
Not got time to go hunting right now.
There was TTY activity in 2014 commenting on it doing well.
Probably more thereafter too.
Regards,
FWD.

Thank you for at least confirming my memory wasn't a complete shambles

 

[Maudlin Street]

I’d like for him to write another autobiography during this current “wilderness period.” It would be interesting to get a peek into his mind at this stage in his career. I recently found out that Boy George has already written three memoirs, so there’s no reason Morrissey can’t write multiple as well.

 

[Amy]

I’d like for him to write another autobiography during this current “wilderness period.” It would be interesting to get a peek into his mind at this stage in his career. I recently found out that Boy George has already written three memoirs, so there’s no reason Morrissey can’t write multiple as well.

Couldn't imagine anything worse.