Morrissey Central "THE PLOT THICKENS" (September 15, 2024)

J Marr has successfully applied for 100% trademark rights / Intellectual Property ownership of The Smiths name. His application has been accepted on whatever oaths or proclamations he has put forward. This action was done without any consultation to Morrissey, and without allowing Morrissey the standard opportunity of 'objection'. Amongst many other things, this means that Marr can now tour as The Smiths using the vocalist of his choice, and it also prohibits Morrissey from using the name whilst also denying Morrissey considerable financial livelihood.

Morrissey alone created the musical unit name 'The Smiths' in May 1982.

THE PLOT THICKENS - MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY - MORRISSEY CENTRAL - THE PLOT THICKENS

MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY

www.morrisseycentral.com

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Media items:

• AV Club: "Morrissey claims that Johnny Marr owns name "The Smiths" now" - September 16, 2024
• NME: "Morrissey claims Johnny Marr now owns “100 per cent trademark rights and Intellectual Property” of The Smiths name" - September 16, 2024
• Stereogum: "Morrissey Says Johnny Marr Has Acquired The Smiths Trademark, Can Replace Him As Band’s Vocalist" - September 16, 2024

 

[marred]

This might get a bit nasty...
Not sure this is more "no meaning yes" in terms of a reunion as suggested elsewhere.
FWD.

Good. I hope it gets nasty at the very least. As a Morrissey fan these days I am bored beyond belief.

 

[Eyebrows]

Let me get my violin!

 

[SteveWS]

Morrissey Central:

MARR IS MURDER

JMarr lobbed a sausage roll at my window this morning. Make of that what you will.

 

[Fernando Pessoa]

...I'd pulled the plug on commenting...again...but someone alerted me to this and...it's just hilarious

The only way Johnny Marr gained exclusive rights to 'The Smiths' as a corporate brand is because Morrissey agreed to it at some stage or let a joint trademark lapse. Or sold his rights.

Perhaps from the outset Marr maybe had the nous to ensure the brand was his legal property even if Morrissey coined the name? Seems unlikely because they traded and marketed themselves as thick as thieves on all levels excluding a physical relationship..., a new business dispute would be dark karma...for both of them given they stitched up The Drummer and The Bass Player contractually according to the High Court and the Court Of Appeal.

Morrissey tried to Carry On with The Smiths when Johnny Marr jumped ship and my understanding is that Marr had to issue a 'cease and desist' notice to Morrissey- to stop him trading as 'The Smiths' with Ivor Perry from Easterhouse on guitar duties, although I can't find the interview where this was revealed, so maybe not..

The speculation about Smiths Classical and gaming products seems more likely- has Morrissey misunderstood the purpose, scope and limits of this trademark? In which case this outburst could be costly.

Did a rolling renewal of an original shared trademark expire and Morrissey didn't realise - or didn't respond to legal notices of intent from Johnny Marr?

Morrissey got himself fcukd up the arse'n'all over contract law by taking bad legal advice. I hope he cleared the facts of this statement with lawyers. If it isn't true in the specified details listed he's casting a LOT of shade on Marr's public reputation.

It's so bonkers.

If it's were true that Marr has violated a valid contractual agreement over brand ownership then Morrissey can sue Marr. If not, tough. Claiming moral rights to the name as a basis to repudiate this in contract law? Good luck with all that!

If it isn't true and Marr has followed the correct legal procedures then Marr can sure Morrissey for...well, a list of things...

They can sue and countersue each other and both take it to the High Court. Mike Joyce will need so much popcorn

Given Johnny Marr gained legal ownership of these legal property rights in 2018, how could Morrissey not know- unless any previous joint trademark lapsed and Morrissey ignored legal letters? But...that would never happen...Morrissey would never ignore such a crucial thing, surely?


'Ivor Perry was the guitarist for the Smiths support band, Easterhouse, and briefly replaced Johnny Marr in the Smiths.'

'Morrissey originally wanted to continue with the Smiths but legally he couldn't unless Marr agreed to him using the name'

https://www.morrissey-solo.com/threads/discussion-the-smiths-minus-marr.49914/


https://superdeluxeedition.com/news...-a-day-ivor-perry-responds-to-stephen-street/

 

[Nobody’s Nothing]

Wondering this? Why does Moz care? He hates most of The Smiths given the fact he only plays a handful of Smiths songs at this concerts. I mean really, does he actually think Munich Air Disaster is better than the worst Smiths song?
However here are the facts, Marr could do a whole band with him, rourke, street and the best singer alive, call it The Smiths and I still wouldn’t go see it. However Morrissey could tour as Morrissey with whatever band, call it the Shits, and do all Smiths covers and it would sell out every show (if he decided to show up).

 

[Amy]

I honestly do not know what to make of this, but I do think the open letter is what burned it all down.

Just picking this bit out to avoid a long quote, but yes, I feel the same. As it spirals, all I can think is how much a few apologies might have avoided this ugly mess. And they're both to blame, you know? They've both played a part in this, by "ghosting" or playing power games and it won't end until they admit it. With Andy's passing, with Mike Hinc's passing, surely they've had opportunities to talk in recent years - yet nothing, it seems.

If the tables were turned, and Johnny sent 3 volleys in a row, some fans here would screaming 'harassment!' from the rooftops. Moz is goading again and again and again. Whatever the truth of it all, it's horrible to witness. And if I had tickets for Moz' US tour, I'd be nervous right now.

 

[Redacted]

...I'd pulled the plug on commenting...again...but someone alerted me to this and...it's just hilarious

The only way Johnny Marr gained exclusive rights to 'The Smiths' as a corporate brand is because Morrissey agreed to it at some stage or let a joint trademark lapse. Or sold his rights.

I have no done trademark law, but my husband has and he said he is going to bet Morrissey was notified and paid, this was done by lawyers so it was done correctly.

 

[Phranc & Open]

Marr will not tour as The Smiths, will he.

 

[Redacted]

Just picking this bit out to avoid a long quote, but yes, I feel the same. As it spirals, all I can think is how much a few apologies might have avoided this ugly mess. And they're both to blame, you know? They've both played a part in this, by "ghosting" or playing power games and it won't end until they admit it. With Andy's passing, with Mike Hinc's passing, surely they've had opportunities to talk in recent years - yet nothing, it seems.

If the tables were turned, and Johnny sent 3 volleys in a row, some fans here would screaming 'harassment!' from the rooftops. Moz is goading again and again and again. Whatever the truth of it all, it's horrible to witness. And if I had tickets for Moz' US tour, I'd be nervous right now.

I agree they are both to blame here. I think Morrissey could have made his point in the open letter without all the insults and I always wondered what the bit about dribble on Johnny's grandmother's chin was about because surely a man Johnny's age does not have grandparents who are still alive. I think there was a lot of coded language in that.

I also think Johnny should have left it there and not responded to the open letter.

On the other hand, I think Johnny should not have said some things he said in interviews, but for example, if he does think someone besides Morrissey is the best lyricist he has ever worked with, maybe he really believes it and it's not a shot at Morrissey.

I agree that if the tables were turned and Johnny was doing this slow drip on Morrissey, especially right before a tour (Johnny has one here starting Tues Sept 17) that people here would definitely be losing it and crying foul. I too would worry if I had Morrissey tickets because at this point he seems to be just fraying his own nerves and may start canceling.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree they are both to blame here. I think Morrissey could have made his point in the open letter without all the insults and I always wondered what the bit about dribble on Johnny's grandmother's chin was about because surely a man Johnny's age does not have grandparents who are still alive. I think there was a lot of coded language in that.

I also think Johnny should have left it there and not responded to the open letter.

On the other hand, I think Johnny should not have said some things he said in interviews, but for example, if he does think someone besides Morrissey is the best lyricist he has ever worked with, maybe he really believes it and it's not a shot at Morrissey.

I agree that if the tables were turned and Johnny was doing this slow drip on Morrissey, especially right before a tour (Johnny has one here starting Tues Sept 17) that people here would definitely be losing it and crying foul. I too would worry if I had Morrissey tickets because at this point he seems to be just fraying his own nerves and may start canceling.

Morrissey does seem unhinged at the moment. He is lashing out and getting no response so lashing out again. Why is he airing all this dirty laundry? He sounds agitated, like a person not in control of his situation, blaming others. Is he cracking up? He cannot cancel his shows, his very reputation is at stake. Or will he?

 

[Amy]

I agree they are both to blame here. I think Morrissey could have made his point in the open letter without all the insults and I always wondered what the bit about dribble on Johnny's grandmother's chin was about because surely a man Johnny's age does not have grandparents who are still alive. I think there was a lot of coded language in that.

I also think Johnny should have left it there and not responded to the open letter.

On the other hand, I think Johnny should not have said some things he said in interviews, but for example, if he does think someone besides Morrissey is the best lyricist he has ever worked with, maybe he really believes it and it's not a shot at Morrissey.

I agree that if the tables were turned and Johnny was doing this slow drip on Morrissey, especially right before a tour (Johnny has one here starting Tues Sept 17) that people here would definitely be losing it and crying foul. I too would worry if I had Morrissey tickets because at this point he seems to be just fraying his own nerves and may start canceling.

Perhaps I'm optimistic, but I thought the grandma's chin thing was Moz being deliberately absurd/comical as a way to make sure that it couldn't be taken as a dig at a living person. I thought he was trying to be funny, as with the 'kidnapped by aliens' things and maybe didn't mean the letter to come across as severely as it did. If you deleted maybe 4 sentences, you could take a lot of the sting out of it. As usual though, massive misfire. Sad.

 

[BookishBoy]

After all this, it would be fun if a certain drummer put together a band containing a few Blossoms and, I dunno, the weird dude from Gene or something, and started touring as MIKE JOYCE's SMITHS.

 

[Thewlis]

Marr will not tour as The Smiths, will he.

No, and that’s not the point of this post.

It’s just that Morrissey cannot tour as The Smiths either, which was discussed here yesterday after Gene Simmons suggested he should.

This post is really a response to that, nothing more.

 

[Mayfly]

I would like to hear Johnny Marrs take on this.
I suppose there is some truth in the facts.
Butwould that allow JM to tour as the Smiths with a singer of his choice,, and would he even consider doing that as long as Morrissey is still alive ?
Or is this just a matter or first step towards protecting his inheritance for his children?

 

[Anonymous]

Morrissey 2 years ago. "Marr, please stop mentioning me!"

Now:
Morrissey:
"Marr stopped The Smiths reunion!"
"Marr prevented a terrible "Best Of" from being released!"
"Marr stole The Smiths' trademark!"

It's looking increasingly pathetic on Morrissey's part and he's clearly desperate for acknowledgment.

 

[SteveWS]

*sigh*

I wish Morrissey hadn't been so obviously contemptuous, at times, in his autobiography. For instance, writing that Johnny was apparently incapable of pronouncing the word 'guitar' properly. Seemingly a small thing, of course, but it's an unsubtle jibe at Marr's supposed lack of intelligence and social grace, and not likely to be forgotten by its target. That kind of 'superior' patrician sneer stings, and breeds resentment. Moz displayed all the weapons of a very articulate person and none of the judgment. His extreme confidence in his verbal & written abilities means that he's (arguably) now paying the price of waging a war of words in a real world of actions and consequences.

 

[gordyboy9]

Ah holy shit. J Marr being a extremely sleezy motherfckr.
Nice guy, my ass.

I have spent my whole life in ruins because of people who are "nice"!

been saying that for years ash but was always shot down on here,his halo slips a bit further everyday.

 

[Anonymous]

*sigh*

I wish Morrissey hadn't been so obviously contemptuous, at times, in his autobiography. For instance, writing that Johnny was apparently incapable of pronouncing the word 'guitar' properly. Seemingly a small thing, of course, but it's an unsubtle jibe at Marr's supposed lack of intelligence and social grace, and not likely to be forgotten by its target. That kind of 'superior' patrician sneer stings, and breeds resentment. Moz displayed all the weapons of a very articulate person and none of the judgment. His extreme confidence in his verbal & written abilities means that he's (arguably) now paying the price of waging a war of words in a real world of actions and consequences.

I think in every instance he refers to Johnny as “boy” not a man. Another slight.

 

[gordyboy9]

Just spit balling here, what if Johnny resurrected The Smiths with Martin Rossiter on lead vocals, Mike Joyce on the drums, Alain Whyte on rhythm guitar, and Stephen Street on the bass. Would you go see that?

alain wouldnt touch it with a barge pole if there was no morrissey on vocals.
when you watch queen with adam lambert you just think why bother.

 

[Johnny]

Next time I hear from Morrissey I want it to be with tour dates or album release information and absolutely nothing else.
These latest spats with JM are reflecting very badly on them both.