NME: "Mike Joyce on ending his feud with Johnny Marr, The Smiths’ reunion row and a mural for Andy Rourke" (October 4, 2024)

“Other people will have other ideas but, as far as I’m concerned, with Andy not being here, it’s impossible to have a reunion of The Smiths. But Morrissey and Marr together? Obviously I read those back-and-forth statements and I’m surprised they didn’t get that together earlier – that they’d have done something 10 or 15 years ago, whenever. The ownership of The Smiths’ name, going out as The Smiths with a different rhythm section? So be it.”

Mike Joyce on ending his feud with Johnny Marr, The Smiths' reunion row and a mural for Andy Rourke

Mike Joyce on the “unsavoury” feud between Morrissey and Marr, his highlights of his time with The Smiths, the chances of a reunion, and remembering Andy Rourke

www.nme.com

 

[Gareth Keenan]

Let us not forget that MOZI tried it on with M Joyce and that is the real reason The Smiths split.
Mike not parting his legs lead to MOZI and Marr parting ways.

Assuming this posted in jest at a regular contributor (who now says he despises M , although seems to spend every day on here) who has spouted this nonsense before.
No factual evidence to back it up at all.

 

[TheSmiths_1985]

Assuming this posted in jest at a regular contributor (who now says he despises M , although seems to spend every day on here) who has spouted this nonsense before.
No factual evidence to back it up at all.

Yeah, what, you don’t f***in’ like it? Grow a f***in’ skin, that’s what it’s f***in’ like here so f***in’ get used to it. Uncleskinny has been here for f***in’ decades, buster, so you better f***in’ toughen up and get the f*** used to it.

Sorry… I was momentarily overcome by the spirit of Skinny.

What I meant to say was, “yes.”

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

In court, Johnny said that there had been a discussion but no agreement. He also didn't remember talking about a specific percentage, just some sort of reduction.

It's true he didn't leave the band. But that's just not how agreeing something works. A&M would have to do something to agree. Johnny failing to leave the band isn't them agreeing, it's just Johnny not making good on his threat. And I can't see how Johnny could think otherwise.

Morrissey wasn't asked about any of this in court, because he wasn't there. He instructed Johnny to tell Mike and Andy about the pay cut and then left town.



There was a meeting with solicitors in maybe early 1985 aimed at getting an agreement, but they didn't agree. I think there was a proposal where Mike and Andy would get 25% while they were in the band and then nothing after that.

Interesting. If that’s what was said in court. I think Johnny’s account is different in his book, though it’s been a while since I’ve read it. I’m speculating that the ‘reduction’ was probably 10%. I don’t know if Morrissey was out of town, I thought Johnny asked/told them right before a rehearsal (?).

 

[SteveWS]

I think...the major problem the band had all along was the disconnection between Moz & Marr's original aim - to be songwriters, even for hire, practically free of commitments to others - and what actually developed: the necessity of having to add members to their partnership. It was never an equal relationship, and all parties conspired to the point of even fooling themselves that the Smiths were a 'gang'. That was wishful thinking, at best, and not the true story...and, sadly, that disconnection always meant there was trouble ahead, unless the 'others' fully agreed with their lower status.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

I think...the major problem the band had all along was the disconnection between Moz & Marr's original aim - to be songwriters, even for hire, practically free of commitments to others - and what actually developed: the necessity of having to add members to their partnership. It was never an equal relationship, and all parties conspired to the point of even fooling themselves that the Smiths were a 'gang'. That was wishful thinking, at best, and not the true story...and, sadly, that disconnection always meant there was trouble ahead, unless the 'others' fully agreed with their lower status.

exactly.

 

[gashonthenail]

Mike seems like an honest and humble person. I love what he said about how, for him, it doesn't feel like Andy is even gone. His 'mural mission' for Andy is very touching also, and a welcome sight. Additionally, I really like how Marr and Mike can be mature and respectful when seeing one another.

Joyce did obtain an injunction against Morrissey though, effectively freezing his assets in the UK for a while, which I imagine appeared highly vindictive and nasty to Morrissey. Maybe Morrissey asked for it by appealing the original verdict, but there is an argument that Joyce isn't the reasonable, 'butter wouldn't melt' angel that he likes to appear.

 

[TheSmiths_1985]

Joyce did obtain an injunction against Morrissey though, effectively freezing his assets in the UK for a while, which I imagine appeared highly vindictive and nasty to Morrissey. Maybe Morrissey asked for it by appealing the original verdict, but there is an argument that Joyce isn't the reasonable, 'butter wouldn't melt' angel that he likes to appear.

A lovers tiff.

 

[SteveWS]

Amazingly, and despite Morrissey's attempts to bore me to death with his overlong and one-sided account of the court proceedings, I nevertheless think he has a point about the judge being particularly biased against him (and/or what Morrissey supposedly represents or stands for).

 

[Young And Alive]

Amazingly, and despite Morrissey's attempts to bore me to death with his overlong and one-sided account of the court proceedings, I nevertheless think he has a point about the judge being particularly biased against him (and/or what Morrissey supposedly represents or stands for).

The fact that Morrissey behaved like an arrogant prick in court didn't exactly endear him to the judge either.

 

[Young And Alive]

Joyce did obtain an injunction against Morrissey though, effectively freezing his assets in the UK for a while, which I imagine appeared highly vindictive and nasty to Morrissey. Maybe Morrissey asked for it by appealing the original verdict, but there is an argument that Joyce isn't the reasonable, 'butter wouldn't melt' angel that he likes to appear.

Marr paid Joyce what the court ordered him to and then moved on with his life.

Morrissey, meanwhile, refused to do similar and moved abroad.

What else was Joyce meant to do? Say "fair enough" and not pursue Morrissey in any way?

Morrissey was rich. He could easily have afforded to pay Joyce what he was owed. He chose not to.

Any distress caused by Joyce's subsequent actions is entirely of Morrissey's own making.

 

[Juan Dulces]

I feel that the narrative originally was that the Strangeways sessions were tense and that this pic was used as evidence. Later all sides seemed to say it was an enjoyable experience and their favorite work.

View attachment 112782

Okay, I've heard different answers to this question....

Is that Morrissey in the pic (above) from Strangeways? I've always thought those were his legs. Could it be Street? Somebody here years ago told me it was Mike, but I still don't believe that.

 

[Juan Dulces]

Joyce did obtain an injunction against Morrissey though, effectively freezing his assets in the UK for a while, which I imagine appeared highly vindictive and nasty to Morrissey. Maybe Morrissey asked for it by appealing the original verdict, but there is an argument that Joyce isn't the reasonable, 'butter wouldn't melt' angel that he likes to appear.

Lawyers....

 

[SuedeMoz]

Okay, I've heard different answers to this question....

Is that Morrissey in the pic (above) from Strangeways? I've always thought those were his legs. Could it be Street? Somebody here years ago told me it was Mike, but I still don't believe that.

It's actually hard to tell but I always thought it was Morrissey.

 

[JerryCan]

It's actually hard to tell but I always thought it was Morrissey.

Johnny surely?

 

[Anonymous]

Okay, I've heard different answers to this question....

Is that Morrissey in the pic (above) from Strangeways? I've always thought those were his legs. Could it be Street? Somebody here years ago told me it was Mike, but I still don't believe that.

It's Johnny Marr taken by Angie, it's in his book.

 

[Amy]

Okay, I've heard different answers to this question....

Is that Morrissey in the pic (above) from Strangeways? I've always thought those were his legs. Could it be Street? Somebody here years ago told me it was Mike, but I still don't believe that.

It's Johnny. Taken by Angie.

 

[Cornflakes]

Amazingly, and despite Morrissey's attempts to bore me to death with his overlong and one-sided account of the court proceedings, I nevertheless think he has a point about the judge being particularly biased against him (and/or what Morrissey supposedly represents or stands for).

The judge does not seem to have exactly taken a shine to Morrissey.

Regardless, though, it was an open and shut case.

 

[Cornflakes]

I think...the major problem the band had all along was the disconnection between Moz & Marr's original aim - to be songwriters, even for hire, practically free of commitments to others - and what actually developed

Maybe.

But there was no real way they could have avoided the rhythm section being on an equal split. Technically, they could have said "Hey Mike, do you want to be in our band. Only 10% for drummers, mind".

But The Smiths would then never have had a drummer, because at that time Morrissey was still going by Steven, there was no record contract and the band had never played a gig. According to Autobiography, they had already thrown everything into persuading Mike to join.