NME: "Mike Joyce on ending his feud with Johnny Marr, The Smiths’ reunion row and a mural for Andy Rourke" (October 4, 2024)

“Other people will have other ideas but, as far as I’m concerned, with Andy not being here, it’s impossible to have a reunion of The Smiths. But Morrissey and Marr together? Obviously I read those back-and-forth statements and I’m surprised they didn’t get that together earlier – that they’d have done something 10 or 15 years ago, whenever. The ownership of The Smiths’ name, going out as The Smiths with a different rhythm section? So be it.”

Mike Joyce on ending his feud with Johnny Marr, The Smiths' reunion row and a mural for Andy Rourke

Mike Joyce on the “unsavoury” feud between Morrissey and Marr, his highlights of his time with The Smiths, the chances of a reunion, and remembering Andy Rourke

www.nme.com

 

[Surface]

A great article would be the auditin'
of the funds for the Andy mural.

A great article would be The Wild Turkey got eaten by Morrissey's nephew this Christmas.

 

[TheSmiths_1985]

Update from Mike and a example how the press twist things.

Stinking homophobic NME journalist conspiracy.

 

[TheSmiths_1985]

A great article would be The Wild Turkey got eaten by Morrissey's nephew this Christmas.

 

[The Wild Turkey]

A great article would be The Wild Turkey got eaten by Morrissey's nephew this Christmas.

Hmm.
Once ya question the money, then
folks wanna act violent.
Yep, think it's time for a audit.

 

[The Wild Turkey]

Turklock Holmes is gonna find
out Wat's goin' on Son.

 

[Anonymous]

Nice little interview, but I worry now that every time I hear 'I Started Something' I'm going to be thinking about being forced into the 'egg zone'.

 

[Anonymous]

I clicked on the 'back and forth statements' link in this Mike Joyce article, and just noticed for the first time an interesting thing about Marr's public response to Morrissey, when he says that he sought to protect the name 'The Smiths' "on behalf of my bandmates", plural. Wasn't the whole point of the court case, over which (correct me if I'm wrong) Marr and Joyce fell out, that The Smiths were only Morrissey and Marr? So how could he be protecting the legacy of The Smiths on behalf of his "bandmates", plural, if he only had one bandmate, because Morrissey was the only other member of The Smiths?

In fairness, I suppose they lost the court case, but I don't recall Marr (and certainly not Morrissey) ever conceding that The Smiths were, in fact, a four-piece (and later a five-piece).

 

[Les Tameside]

I clicked on the 'back and forth statements' link in this Mike Joyce article, and just noticed for the first time an interesting thing about Marr's public response to Morrissey, when he says that he sought to protect the name 'The Smiths' "on behalf of my bandmates", plural. Wasn't the whole point of the court case, over which (correct me if I'm wrong) Marr and Joyce fell out, that The Smiths were only Morrissey and Marr? So how could he be protecting the legacy of The Smiths on behalf of his "bandmates", plural, if he only had one bandmate, because Morrissey was the only other member of The Smiths?

In fairness, I suppose they lost the court case, but I don't recall Marr (and certainly not Morrissey) ever conceding that The Smiths were, in fact, a four-piece (and later a five-piece).

The Sound of The Smiths sleeves surely demonstrate that both Morrissey and Marr continued to recognise The Smiths were a group—not a pairing—in everyone’s eyes. Including theirs.

 

[Deleted member 32244]

We are more likely to learn what Mike Joyce's favorite breakfast cereal is before we get a release date for the two (?) albums Morrissey recorded oh so long ago. I'll bet dollars to dimes Morrissey releases NOTHING this calendar year 2024. To those of you so bold and trusting as to buy tickets to these (alleged) upcoming November dates. Well, I can't help but admire your optimism.

 

[Well]

The demo of Never Had No One Ever on TQID box has the trumpet on it.

 

[The Wild Turkey]

So thankful for folks like Turklock
Holmes here on Solo.
They are the ones committed to
findin' the truth.

 

[April Snow]

The demo of Never Had No One Ever on TQID box has the trumpet on it.

It is so good and Moz laughing - it is on the Queen is Dead deluxe CD and 3 x LP set which is worth every penny

 

[Surface]

Turklock Holmes is gonna find
out Wat's goin' on Son.

It’s pretty clear what going on and it takes a special kind of wanker to question a cause that is raising money for a pancreatic cancer charity, it also takes a special kind of wanker that likes posts that question raising money for a cancer charity.

https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/p/andy-rourke-mural

New stretch target​

The project will raise awareness of the Pancreatic Cancer Action charity. Once we reach our target to pay for the mural, all further proceeds will be donated to the charity and an event in November is also planned to raise further funds.

 

[Phranc & Open]

No matter what the occasion, Mike Joyce always comes across as authentic and down-to-earth. He also never comes across as lacking in empathy, like perhaps a part of a lawn mower. Actually, you should be glad to have had such people in the band. Of course, you also have to pay them properly. A point of honour!

 

[TheSmiths_1985]

We are more likely to learn what Mike Joyce's favorite breakfast cereal is before we get a release date for the two (?) albums Morrissey recorded oh so long ago.

Whatever he has, I bet it’s washed down with some lovely Royal Teas…

 

[The Wild Turkey]

It’s pretty clear what going on and it takes a special kind of wanker to question a cause that is raising money for a pancreatic cancer charity, it also takes a special kind of wanker that likes posts that question raising money for a cancer charity.

https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/p/andy-rourke-mural

New stretch target​

The project will raise awareness of the Pancreatic Cancer Action charity. Once we reach our target to pay for the mural, all further proceeds will be donated to the charity and an event in November is also planned to raise further funds.

What's the gas slappy?
Turlock Holmes will find the truth through computin' the clues.
Let's check the %'s.

 

[Anonymous]

The Sound of The Smiths sleeves surely demonstrate that both Morrissey and Marr continued to recognise The Smiths were a group—not a pairing—in everyone’s eyes. Including theirs.

In which case, why did Morrissey continue to insist that The Smiths were himself and Johnny Marr? And what was the basis for Marr's continued (Still) Ill will to Joyce?

 

[gashonthenail]

No matter what the occasion, Mike Joyce always comes across as authentic and down-to-earth. He also never comes across as lacking in empathy, like perhaps a part of a lawn mower. Actually, you should be glad to have had such people in the band. Of course, you also have to pay them properly. A point of honour!

Hard to argue with that. There is an assumption in law that if 2 or more parties enter into a business venture, then the profits of the venture are shared equally, unless there is a clear agreement to do otherwise. If it is true that Morrissey and Marr agreed a 40/40/10/10 split with Andy and Mike, they should have got them to sign something. End of. That's school boy stuff for any manager. Morrissey never should have wasted his money on an appeal.
The full appeal judgment makes interesting reading, with references to conversations that may or not have taken place throughout the life of The Smiths:

Joyce v Morrisey & Ors, [1999] EMLR 233 | England and Wales Court of Appeal (Civil Division), Judgment, Law, casemine.com

Get free access to the complete judgment in Joyce v Morrisey & Ors on CaseMine.

www.casemine.com

It's interesting that at the trial Joyce's credibility was also questioned by Judge Weeks:

What’s more, the judge added to the soap opera drama of the publicly unfurling case with his flourishes of entertainment that seemed to go beyond the call of duty. Rather inexplicably, he ranked the band by their IQ declaring Marr as the most intelligent before stating that Rourke and Joyce were “unintellectual” which, if anything, plays into classic rhythm section stereotypes. And he also offered up his judgement on the basis of character assessments which described Joyce and Rourke as “straightforward and honest”, but condemned Morrissey as “devious, truculent and unreliable where his own interests were at stake”; while Marr was daubed as “willing to embroider his evidence to a point where he became less credible.”

What actually went down during The Smiths’ lawsuit? - Far Out Magazine

The break-up of The Smith’s is one of indies most grisly examples, with Johnny Marr, Morrissey, Andy Rourke and Mike Joyce all ending up in court.

faroutmagazine.co.uk

 

[Les Tameside]

Hard to argue with that. There is an assumption in law that if 2 or more parties enter into a business venture, then the profits of the venture are shared equally, unless there is a clear agreement to do otherwise. If it is true that Morrissey and Marr agreed a 40/40/10/10 split with Andy and Mike, they should have got them to sign something. End of. That's school boy stuff for any manager. Morrissey never should have wasted his money on an appeal.
The full appeal judgment makes interesting reading, with references to conversations that may or not have taken place throughout the life of The Smiths:

Joyce v Morrisey & Ors, [1999] EMLR 233 | England and Wales Court of Appeal (Civil Division), Judgment, Law, casemine.com

Get free access to the complete judgment in Joyce v Morrisey & Ors on CaseMine.

www.casemine.com

It's interesting that at the trial Joyce's credibility was also questioned by Judge Weeks:

What’s more, the judge added to the soap opera drama of the publicly unfurling case with his flourishes of entertainment that seemed to go beyond the call of duty. Rather inexplicably, he ranked the band by their IQ declaring Marr as the most intelligent before stating that Rourke and Joyce were “unintellectual” which, if anything, plays into classic rhythm section stereotypes. And he also offered up his judgement on the basis of character assessments which described Joyce and Rourke as “straightforward and honest”, but condemned Morrissey as “devious, truculent and unreliable where his own interests were at stake”; while Marr was daubed as “willing to embroider his evidence to a point where he became less credible.”

What actually went down during The Smiths’ lawsuit? - Far Out Magazine

The break-up of The Smith’s is one of indies most grisly examples, with Johnny Marr, Morrissey, Andy Rourke and Mike Joyce all ending up in court.

faroutmagazine.co.uk

“It's interesting that at the trial Joyce's credibility was also questioned by Judge Weeks:”

‘described Joyce and Rourke as “straightforward and honest”…’.

I don’t think Mike’s ‘credibility’ was in doubt.

 

[Redacted]

“It's interesting that at the trial Joyce's credibility was also questioned by Judge Weeks:”

‘described Joyce and Rourke as “straightforward and honest”…’.

I don’t think Mike’s ‘credibility’ was in doubt.

I don't think so either, but you know, it can't just be Morrissey whose credibility is questioned or put into doubt