Fiona Dodwell: "How Morrissey outran The Smiths (and why his critics will never admit it)" (February 18, 2021)

How Morrissey outran The Smiths (and why his critics will never admit it)

Excerpt:

"There’s an emergence of voices rising from the rotting grave of political correctness lately, in a feeble attempt to somehow make Morrissey’s art into nothing more than a shadow of The Smiths. In reality though, to many, he was the beating heart of the much-loved 80s quartet and unlike his bandmates, he became so much more.
There are many voices online using the tired old trope, “I won’t listen to Morrissey because I don’t agree with his views, but I’ll always have The Smiths.” If this sentiment were limited only to the dull echo chambers of anonymous social media users, it might not be so bad. Yet it does not stop there."





Regards,
FWD.

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[Anonymous]

Agreed! Sounds like his vocals have improved since his days with the Healers.

That wouldn't be hard. He's obviously had voice coaching, but he still sounds like a karaoke singer.

 

[Anonymous]

Funny how Fiona disses The Smiths yet in the real world Johnnys performance of Big Mouth at Glastonbury has had nearly a million views.

The nature of festival crowds is that they will cheer anything that's served up to them as long as it's loud enough. And 1 million views on youtube doesn't mean that 1 million people thought he was any good.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Why on earth would I have any interest in changing him? It's his life and he can do what the hell he wants with it. If I don't like what he says I will criticise him, it is allowed you know.

I was just asking you if you felt
that through criticizing Morrissey you thought it would maybe change him somehow, it’s just me trying to understand why you and others even bother? Not saying you’re not allowed to do so.

If you know it won’t change him, nor do you care to change him, then why do you bother? Have you ever asked yourself if it benefits you to post such opinions? I mean no one’s trying to stop you from doing so, but I just wondered if you were conscious of this futile behavior and ever stopped to question yourself in order to understand, why you do it?

I’m guessing it may be that you know others on this site may have similar opinions, so it makes you feel like you belong to something? in order to fill that void of not belonging or being appreciated for one’s opinions in real life? Because I can’t see any other benefits by posting negative criticisms about Morrissey on this site. Would you agree?

I’m not being rude there, we all want to belong to something, it’s a natural human need, but why do it through being negative about another’s actions when one knows very well that these opinions that you and a few others continually post here will never change anything or benefit anyone in any positive way?

 

[Boomer]

she stopped when he turned right aka enrolled @ youtube politics academy

As did about 70 - 80% of his fan base. Certainly here in the UK, and most definitely in Manchester. Apart from a small minority, most people will happily talk about the music, but they tend to qualify by distancing themselves from his views now. He’s seen as an embarrassment to himself.

 

[MrShoes]

That wouldn't be hard. He's obviously had voice coaching, but he still sounds like a karaoke singer.

Christ - no need to qualify how he gets there, so long as he's improved. I mean look at the crowd's reaction. Just enjoy the result. There are after all, some karaoke singers that have done well with a career in song. To some degree, it may be argued that everyone begins as a karaoke singer...unless you've sung yourself right out the womb!

 

[Deleted member 29417]

submit this to FC for further analysis.

What would he know?

 

[Anonymous]

Christ - no need to qualify how he gets there, so long as he's improved. I mean look at the crowd's reaction. Just enjoy the result. There are after all, some karaoke singers that have done well with a career in song. To some degree, it may be argued that everyone begins as a karaoke singer...unless you've sung yourself right out the womb!

Okay, fair enough, some karaoke singers are good, but what I meant was that whilst Johnny's singing voice had audibly improved somewhat - and that suggests voice coaching - it's still not actually any good. I mean, he's just a pretty poor singer. And by reference to 'karaoke singer' what I really meant was that you could probably have pulled a dozen blokes at random out of that Glastonbury crown, plonked them on the stage in front of the microphone, and any one of them would have sung 'Bigmouth' as well as Johnny was 'singing' it - because as I say, his voice is flat and bland, his range is extremely limited, and he just sounds like a non-singer trying to sing. Which is what he is.

 

[Deleted member 29417]

hear hear a Tory!

Fiona and Mozziona are not center right they are alt right = far right

Why do you bother changing your name?

Moz is an anarchist.

Fiona's not as bad as alt. Maybe lite, at a push.

I voted for Anas Sarwar in the Scottish Labour Leadership elections, which I'm sure you've all been riveted by.

Anas Sarwar: ‘I’ll rebuild Labour party in Scotland’

Glasgow MSP pledges to replace internal wrangling with united purpose as he sets out his stall to succeed Richard Leonard

www.theguardian.com

 

[MrShoes]

Okay, fair enough, some karaoke singers are good, but what I meant was that whilst Johnny's singing voice had audibly improved somewhat - and that suggests voice coaching - it's still not actually any good. I mean, he's just a pretty poor singer. And by reference to 'karaoke singer' what I really meant was that you could probably have pulled a dozen blokes at random out of that Glastonbury crown, plonked them on the stage in front of the microphone, and any one of them would have sung 'Bigmouth' as well as Johnny was 'singing' it - because as I say, his voice is flat and bland, his range is extremely limited, and he just sounds like a non-singer trying to sing. Which is what he is.

Right on. Of course there is a spectrum and JM lies somewhere amidst it - not at the top of course!

But whatever the relative quality of his voice and output, I am glad he's doing better at belting out some of those past hits. I mean they are his songs as much as Moz - and some members of his band can take a few lessons as well with this past material!

 

[Vegan Cro Spirit .777]

What would he know?

it may be a bit above his pay grade.

 

[T. H. Auden]

As did about 70 - 80% of his fan base. Certainly here in the UK, and most definitely in Manchester. Apart from a small minority, most people will happily talk about the music, but they tend to qualify by distancing themselves from his views now. He’s seen as an embarrassment to himself.

That's sad to hear, if it's true. Is he the only one from Manchester who dares stand up against the terrorists and the meat industry, and could it be that maybe the working class are jealous of him, and therefore they respond with aggression/hate/distancing/calling him intolerant because of e.g. ignorance? And also because he wants to keep/conserve real english culture and protect it against multiculturalism/islamisation/americanisation?

 

[Amy]

I was just asking you if you felt
that through criticizing Morrissey you thought it would maybe change him somehow, it’s just me trying to understand why you and others even bother? Not saying you’re not allowed to do so.

If you know it won’t change him, nor do you care to change him, then why do you bother? Have you ever asked yourself if it benefits you to post such opinions? I mean no one’s trying to stop you from doing so, but I just wondered if you were conscious of this futile behavior and ever stopped to question yourself in order to understand, why you do it?

I’m guessing it may be that you know others on this site may have similar opinions, so it makes you feel like you belong to something? in order to fill that void of not belonging or being appreciated for one’s opinions in real life? Because I can’t see any other benefits by posting negative criticisms about Morrissey on this site. Would you agree?

I’m not being rude there, we all want to belong to something, it’s a natural human need, but why do it through being negative about another’s actions when one knows very well that these opinions that you and a few others continually post here will never change anything or benefit anyone in any positive way?

Surely you realise that this point could be applied to anybody who has ever aired their opinions, anywhere? Why does anyone post on fan forums? Why did Moz once lead the New York Dolls' UK fan club or write to pen pals as a teenager? It's discussion about mutual interests, no more than that. And however you've tried to wrap up this post in disingenuous 'just trying to understand' garb, what you're trying to do is shut down any 'critical' views at all. Fans on here have the same right to criticise Moz as you do to blow smoke up his arse, that's how 'opinions' work.

 

[Amy]

That's sad to hear, if it's true. Is he the only one from Manchester who dares stand up against the terrorists and the meat industry, and could it be that maybe the working class are jealous of him, and therefore they respond with aggression/hate/distancing/calling him intolerant because of e.g. ignorance? And also because he wants to keep/conserve real english culture and protect it against multiculturalism/islamisation/americanisation?

In a word, no.

 

[Deleted member 28602]

The Smiths would be a mere footnote of music history by now if not for Morrissey's successful international solo career. He kept their memory alive. I disagree with Ms Dodwell's opinion about the international significance of the Smiths.

I would even go further and say that Morrissey's career had been bogged down for many years when he was wasting his creativity for being with the juvenile members of the Schmitz band. I'm not saying that he didn't want to be a Schmitz, but unlike the other members, he unconsciously must have realized early that the Schmitz could only be a stepping stone for him.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Surely you realise that this point could be applied to anybody who has ever aired their opinions, anywhere? Why does anyone post on fan forums? Why did Moz once lead the New York Dolls' UK fan club or write to pen pals as a teenager? It's discussion about mutual interests, no more than that. And however you've tried to wrap up this post in disingenuous 'just trying to understand' garb, what you're trying to do is shut down any 'critical' views at all. Fans on here have the same right to criticise Moz as you do to blow smoke up his arse, that's how 'opinions' work.

In a word, NO.



I am most certainly curious about
the folks that are aware (?) of the futility of posting their negative opinions. Why do they continually post when they know
that it will not change Morrissey or the people that may share similar views in the real world.

I have no intention of wanting to, nor do I have the power to shut down or censor or stop anyone from posting what they want. That’s silly.


And I also feel there is a huge difference between posting positive opinions and posting negative critical opinions.


Morrissey doesn’t really need to come up in this conversation. I’m truly trying to understand why you and others bother to continually be negative when you know (hope you do) that it doesn’t benefit
anyone. If I’m wrong? Then please tell me how it benefits you?

Is there a goal? What’s to be achieved?


Thanks for joining the discussion Amy, but let’s try to be more civil.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

That's sad to hear, if it's true. Is he the only one from Manchester who dares stand up against the terrorists and the meat industry, and could it be that maybe the working class are jealous of him, and therefore they respond with aggression/hate/distancing/calling him intolerant because of e.g. ignorance? And also because he wants to keep/conserve real english culture and protect it against multiculturalism/islamisation/americanisation?

 

[Dingoatemybabby]

That wouldn't be hard. He's obviously had voice coaching, but he still sounds like a karaoke singer.

Morrissey’s had vocal coaching too, going back to the Smiths - what’s your point? Johnny decided to be a world class live act around age 50 and went out and did it, as shown in the video - I thinks that’s incredible!

 

[Vegan Cro Spirit .777]

Surely you realise that this point could be applied to anybody who has ever aired their opinions, anywhere? Why does anyone post on fan forums? Why did Moz once lead the New York Dolls' UK fan club or write to pen pals as a teenager? It's discussion about mutual interests, no more than that. And however you've tried to wrap up this post in disingenuous 'just trying to understand' garb, what you're trying to do is shut down any 'critical' views at all. Fans on here have the same right to criticise Moz as you do to blow smoke up his arse, that's how 'opinions' work.

triggered trolls are NOT Moz fans FFS
Just like caviar is not frozen tacos
there are no current 'late 80s charts' either

 

[Anonymous]

Morrissey’s had vocal coaching too, going back to the Smiths - what’s your point? Johnny decided to be a world class live act around age 50 and went out and did it, as shown in the video - I thinks that’s incredible!

Yes, well some people are easily entertained. My point in mentioning vocal coaching was to acknowledge that his voice has evidently improved somewhat - thus suggesting he's had vocal coaching. I then went on to point out that he's still a crap singer, albeit he used to be even worse. I think it's hilarious that you regard that performance as being indicative of a "world class act". Talk about Emperor's New Clothes syndrome. That video is testimony to the fact that with a bit of hype, a bit of attitude, and a loud enough sound system, you can be absolutely shit and still get a round of applause from the undemanding masses. Not that I'm saying the band were bad, they were good enough. As I said, it's Marr whose performance was an embarrassment - flat, uncharismatic, pedestrian singing voice, and patently unable to play guitar and sing at the same time, so why bother trying? So many fluffed guitar notes it's painful to listen to. And as I also said, the 'a pigeon shat on me' hair cut is really not indicative of a world class act.

 

[Amy]

And I also feel there is a huge difference between posting positive opinions and posting negative critical opinions.

Why?

Every conversation would be one-sided if it was continually positive (or negative), and Morrissey has always been a divisive figure who provoked debate. How is it any more 'futile' for a fan to criticise M than it is for one to praise him endlessly - & are either of them really trying to 'change his behaviour'? Every point you make can be reflected back at you. What does it 'benefit' anyone to post on here - do you think Moz cares, are you hoping for a cookie? The fawning - and the critical - post for the same reasons.