Morrissey Central "Column." - Fiona Dodwell: ""The Smiths Do Not End" - And Never Will, Thanks To Morrissey" (August 18, 2024)

"The Smiths Do Not End"— And Never Will, Thanks To Morrissey.

Excerpt:

The Smiths were great for the same reason Morrissey as a solo artist is — yet, as he quite rightly points out — he has been demonised for the same qualities his seminal pop group were praised for. Nothing has changed for Morrissey, from the 80’s when he fronted the acclaimed group, up until the present, where he continues to challenge the narratives that overshadow society and the mainstream media.

These thoughts bring to mind the divisive flock who often rear their ugly heads on social media to proclaim their love of The Smiths, all the while saying they refuse to support the Morrissey of today. Such beliefs, founded on very shaky ground, are easily dismantled when one realises that The Smiths are the essence of Morrissey and one cannot divide him from their releases and cultural importance.



More ramblings from Diddy Dodders.

---

Link shared as a Central post the same day via:

Column. - MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY - MORRISSEY CENTRAL - Column.

MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY on MORRISSEY CENTRAL

www.morrisseycentral.com

 

[Redacted]

Just to be clear on a few things - Morrissey did not just defend Spacey and Weinstein in Der Spiegel, he also did in a Sunday Times article. He gets the facts about Spacey wrong, it was not a hotel room but even if it was, the correct question to ask would have been 'why did Spacey bring a 14 year old boy to a hotel room?' and not 'why was the boy there?' It was at a party at Spacey's apartment where other adults who worked on Broadway were present and had left. So then the question remains 'why did Spacey invite a 14 year old to his apartment?'.

Perhaps the biggest question is why did Spacey publicly apologize for this on twitter? Who would admint to sexually assaulting a minor on a social media platform if they didn't do it.

Interestingly enough, Morrissey offers that he personally has never been sexually harassed, but this particular interview was in 2017, 2 years after he claimed he was sexually groped/assaulted at an airport. Again, the security cameras show no such assault.


So, I guess it's true that some people lie about sexual assault and Morrissey is one one them. This one is hard to ignore, reading his derogatory comments about real victims and pretending to be one.

Does Fiona want to address this? Does she think the Smiths would do this or condone it?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I ask him about the behaviour of Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey who are both accused of multiple cases of sexual misdemeanours.

He is in no mood to condemn them. “You must be careful as far as ‘sexual harassment’ is concerned, because often it can be just a pathetic attempt at courtship.”

Most people wouldn’t see the kind of behaviours these sexual predators are accused of as in any way “courtship”. But Morrissey is undeterred. As this interview went to press it emerged that he’d told the German magazine Der Spiegel that the claims against Kevin Spacey — one of which alleges a sexual relationship with a 14-year-old boy — were “ridiculous” and argued, as he did with me, that definitions of harassment and assault have become too broad. “Kevin Spacey was 26, boy 14. One wonders where the boy’s parents were,” Morrissey said. “One wonders if the boy did not know what would happen.” On Weinstein, he said to Der Spiegel that some of the movie mogul’s alleged victims: “play along”. “Afterwards, they feel embarrassed or disliked. And then they turn it around and say, ‘I was attacked, I was surprised.’ But if everything went well, and if it had given them a great career, they would not talk about it.”

He added: “I hate rape. I hate attacks. I hate sexual situations that are forced on someone. But in many cases one looks at the circumstances and thinks that the person who is considered a victim is merely disappointed.”

Our conversation covers similar ground. When I ask him about these sexual attacks he says: “I’m sure it’s horrific, but we have to keep everything in proportion. Do you not agree? I have never been sexually harassed, I might add.” Perhaps that is why he seems so unsympathetic.

 

[gashonthenail]

Just to be clear on a few things - Morrissey did not just defend Spacey and Weinstein in Der Spiegel, he also did in a Sunday Times article. He gets the facts about Spacey wrong, it was not a hotel room but even if it was, the correct question to ask would have been 'why did Spacey bring a 14 year old boy to a hotel room?' and not 'why was the boy there?' It was at a party at Spacey's apartment where other adults who worked on Broadway were present and had left. So then the question remains 'why did Spacey invite a 14 year old to his apartment?'.

Perhaps the biggest question is why did Spacey publicly apologize for this on twitter? Who would admint to sexually assaulting a minor on a social media platform if they didn't do it.

Interestingly enough, Morrissey offers that he personally has never been sexually harassed, but this particular interview was in 2017, 2 years after he claimed he was sexually groped/assaulted at an airport. Again, the security cameras show no such assault.


So, I guess it's true that some people lie about sexual assault and Morrissey is one one them. This one is hard to ignore, reading his derogatory comments about real victims and pretending to be one.

Does Fiona want to address this? Does she think the Smiths would do this or condone it?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I ask him about the behaviour of Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey who are both accused of multiple cases of sexual misdemeanours.

He is in no mood to condemn them. “You must be careful as far as ‘sexual harassment’ is concerned, because often it can be just a pathetic attempt at courtship.”

Most people wouldn’t see the kind of behaviours these sexual predators are accused of as in any way “courtship”. But Morrissey is undeterred. As this interview went to press it emerged that he’d told the German magazine Der Spiegel that the claims against Kevin Spacey — one of which alleges a sexual relationship with a 14-year-old boy — were “ridiculous” and argued, as he did with me, that definitions of harassment and assault have become too broad. “Kevin Spacey was 26, boy 14. One wonders where the boy’s parents were,” Morrissey said. “One wonders if the boy did not know what would happen.” On Weinstein, he said to Der Spiegel that some of the movie mogul’s alleged victims: “play along”. “Afterwards, they feel embarrassed or disliked. And then they turn it around and say, ‘I was attacked, I was surprised.’ But if everything went well, and if it had given them a great career, they would not talk about it.”

He added: “I hate rape. I hate attacks. I hate sexual situations that are forced on someone. But in many cases one looks at the circumstances and thinks that the person who is considered a victim is merely disappointed.”

Our conversation covers similar ground. When I ask him about these sexual attacks he says: “I’m sure it’s horrific, but we have to keep everything in proportion. Do you not agree? I have never been sexually harassed, I might add.” Perhaps that is why he seems so unsympathetic.

I'm not sure how useful it is to rake over repeatedly what a 'pop singer' said on this subject in a previous interview from years ago. In the Der Spiegel interview he didn't mention Weinstein. I think Morrissey was just saying something very similar to what Germaine Greer said about the #MeToo movement. It's a point of view. An opinion. Doesn't mean either Greer or Morrissey need to be cast into outer darkness if others disagree with that point of view.

Germaine Greer criticises 'whingeing' #MeToo movement

Author says women should react immediately to abuse, and historical claims will result in ‘OJ Simpson trial all over again’

www.theguardian.com

 

[Redacted]

I'm not sure how useful it is to rake over repeatedly what a 'pop singer' said on this subject in a previous interview from years ago. In the Der Spiegel interview he didn't mention Weinstein. I think Morrissey was just saying something very similar to what Germaine Greer said about the #MeToo movement. It's a point of view. An opinion. Doesn't mean either Greer or Morrissey need to be cast into outer darkness if others disagree with that point of view.

Germaine Greer criticises 'whingeing' #MeToo movement

Author says women should react immediately to abuse, and historical claims will result in ‘OJ Simpson trial all over again’

www.theguardian.com

I don't wish to get into a deep discussion about this with you, but the fact is he did indeed talk about Weinstein in the Der Spiegel interview, he was asked about it directly and chose to respond, it's on the audio.
You may not see the usefulness in this, just like I don't see the usefulness in a lot of what is posted around here, but I don't tell people to stop posting it. I know you like to cite Germaine Greer a lot but her opinion on this is worthless. This site it about Morrissey, this post is about some odious things he said and it is being posted in reponse to that sycophant Dodwell. Maybe she should try taking up the real issues people having with him instead of declaring any criticism of him invalid.
These things he has said and done are not what the Smiths stood for.
He cannot decree via Dodwell that if we like the Smiths we have to like his solo career, it's just absurd.
You and I do not see eye to eye on some things, so agreeing to disagree is probably best.

 

[gashonthenail]

I simply referred to Greer to demonstrate that someone who could be considered as 'qualified' to comment on this issue, in the widest sense of the word, i.e. an internationally renowned feminist writer who herself has spoken about being raped as a young woman, said something not dissimilar to Morrissey, who in the end is 'just' a pop singer who was giving an interview to a magazine.
People can listen to the audio of Der Spiegel interview for themselves on Youtube and make their own mind up about whether he ever referred specifically to Weinstein in the interview. The audio, in my humble opinion, makes it clear he was talking about the wider #MeToo stuff, and not about Weinstein. He also says at least twice - obviously rape or any form of non-consensual sex is abhorrent.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

I'm not sure how useful it is to rake over repeatedly what a 'pop singer' said on this subject in a previous interview from years ago. In the Der Spiegel interview he didn't mention Weinstein. I think Morrissey was just saying something very similar to what Germaine Greer said about the #MeToo movement. It's a point of view. An opinion. Doesn't mean either Greer or Morrissey need to be cast into outer darkness if others disagree with that point of view.

Germaine Greer criticises 'whingeing' #MeToo movement

Author says women should react immediately to abuse, and historical claims will result in ‘OJ Simpson trial all over again’

www.theguardian.com

don’t bother. M may crudely say something and never explain what he means. But the usual suspects will always find something wrong with M no matter what he does. They’ll deny it, but it’s true.

 

[gordyboy9]

Just to be clear on a few things - Morrissey did not just defend Spacey and Weinstein in Der Spiegel, he also did in a Sunday Times article. He gets the facts about Spacey wrong, it was not a hotel room but even if it was, the correct question to ask would have been 'why did Spacey bring a 14 year old boy to a hotel room?' and not 'why was the boy there?' It was at a party at Spacey's apartment where other adults who worked on Broadway were present and had left. So then the question remains 'why did Spacey invite a 14 year old to his apartment?'.

Perhaps the biggest question is why did Spacey publicly apologize for this on twitter? Who would admint to sexually assaulting a minor on a social media platform if they didn't do it.

Interestingly enough, Morrissey offers that he personally has never been sexually harassed, but this particular interview was in 2017, 2 years after he claimed he was sexually groped/assaulted at an airport. Again, the security cameras show no such assault.


So, I guess it's true that some people lie about sexual assault and Morrissey is one one them. This one is hard to ignore, reading his derogatory comments about real victims and pretending to be one.

Does Fiona want to address this? Does she think the Smiths would do this or condone it?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I ask him about the behaviour of Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey who are both accused of multiple cases of sexual misdemeanours.

He is in no mood to condemn them. “You must be careful as far as ‘sexual harassment’ is concerned, because often it can be just a pathetic attempt at courtship.”

Most people wouldn’t see the kind of behaviours these sexual predators are accused of as in any way “courtship”. But Morrissey is undeterred. As this interview went to press it emerged that he’d told the German magazine Der Spiegel that the claims against Kevin Spacey — one of which alleges a sexual relationship with a 14-year-old boy — were “ridiculous” and argued, as he did with me, that definitions of harassment and assault have become too broad. “Kevin Spacey was 26, boy 14. One wonders where the boy’s parents were,” Morrissey said. “One wonders if the boy did not know what would happen.” On Weinstein, he said to Der Spiegel that some of the movie mogul’s alleged victims: “play along”. “Afterwards, they feel embarrassed or disliked. And then they turn it around and say, ‘I was attacked, I was surprised.’ But if everything went well, and if it had given them a great career, they would not talk about it.”

He added: “I hate rape. I hate attacks. I hate sexual situations that are forced on someone. But in many cases one looks at the circumstances and thinks that the person who is considered a victim is merely disappointed.”

Our conversation covers similar ground. When I ask him about these sexual attacks he says: “I’m sure it’s horrific, but we have to keep everything in proportion. Do you not agree? I have never been sexually harassed, I might add.” Perhaps that is why he seems so unsympathetic.

the two people from british airways who were escorting him through the terminal were the ones who said he should report what happened to which M replied whats the point nothing ever comes of these things.

 

[gashonthenail]

don’t bother. M may crudely say something and never explain what he means. But the usual suspects will always find something wrong with M no matter what he does. They’ll deny it, but it’s true.

I think we have all seen how words, especially ill chosen words, can be pounced on and then used to accuse someone of all sorts of horrible things - racist, sexist, xenophobic, homophobic, transphobic etc. When in the end it's all just words. I previously made some comments on the topic of sexual assault that were probably overly flippant and facetious - when clearly this is a topic that is emotive and deserves sensitivity. Not like me to be flippant and facetious!
Ultimately though, what this all boils down to is just some pop star expressing his opinions. Maybe Morrissey was talking out of his ass that day? Haven't we all got more important things to worry about? Like when the hell is Bonfire going to be released?

 

[BrokenFrame]

don’t bother. M may crudely say something and never explain what he means. But the usual suspects will always find something wrong with M no matter what he does. They’ll deny it, but it’s true.

Exactly. This forum is filled with what I call "Moz Shaming". I try to keep a balanced view, making sometimes nice and not so nice comments. I don't know how some people can be so one sided.

 

[BrummieBoy]

Are you aware you've just been addressing someone who has flaunted their black-hating gun-loving white supremacist views? No moral high-ground whatsoever for them to take. Pathological territory, sadly blending in quite well with most of this ugly uncivil thread.

...cry harder...you and that Malarkey clown are so deeply invested in protecting your dysfunctional adulation of Stevphen Prat-trickster Mollissey that you both simply cannot tolerate dissent. Thankfully, neither of you have any power in the consensus reality community and are reduced to endless, desperate coping strategies. In your case it's giving a thumbs down to every comment I make. In that other eejit's case it's the frankly delusional belief that 'exposing ' my real, legal name is going to intimidate me into silence.

You do both realise I'd eat Morrissey alive in court if he were ever to try and shut me down?

That he'd be handing me what remains of his tattered 'fame' to wear as a scalp?

Come and have a go if you fcukin dare, Morrissey...

Same goes for those clown car 'moderators' who've periodically tried to bully me only to realise I cannot be bullied...

Morrissey is a fantastic singer, a periodically brilliant wordsmith and also one of the most conceited, silly twits ever to prance around the stage.

The fact you two regard yourselves as some sort of praetorian guards is almost as funny as this dingbat Fionna Dodgewell imagining she is capable of insightful analysis of all this.

She's completely ridiculous. A fawning sycophant. No wonder she was granted an audience with that disco mullet C List troll Morrissey...get a life...you, Malarkey, Morrissey and Fiona...get a fcukin life...

BrummieBoy
The George
St Briavels
Forest Of Dean
Gloucestershire
England ...till I fcukin die...

 

[BrummieBoy]

I don't wish to get into a deep discussion about this with you, but the fact is he did indeed talk about Weinstein in the Der Spiegel interview, he was asked about it directly and chose to respond, it's on the audio.
You may not see the usefulness in this, just like I don't see the usefulness in a lot of what is posted around here, but I don't tell people to stop posting it. I know you like to cite Germaine Greer a lot but her opinion on this is worthless. This site it about Morrissey, this post is about some odious things he said and it is being posted in reponse to that sycophant Dodwell. Maybe she should try taking up the real issues people having with him instead of declaring any criticism of him invalid.
These things he has said and done are not what the Smiths stood for.
He cannot decree via Dodwell that if we like the Smiths we have to like his solo career, it's just absurd.
You and I do not see eye to eye on some things, so agreeing to disagree is probably best.

Der Speigel gutted Morrissey.

He can never, ever recover his Reputation. It's the very opposite of Taylor vs Kanye. She's vindicated by that tape, he's reduced to ridicule and can never, ever be trusted as a reliable witness...to his own life or anything or anyone else.

 

[goinghome]

Der Speigel gutted Morrissey.

Don't presume that just because someone down-votes you means they read more than a couple of words of this diarrhea deluge

 

[Redacted]

Der Speigel gutted Morrissey.

He can never, ever recover his Reputation. It's the very opposite of Taylor vs Kanye. She's vindicated by that tape, he's reduced to ridicule and can never, ever be trusted as a reliable witness...to his own life or anything or anyone else.

It is, it shows what an absolute raging malignant narcissist he is and that it why the mere mention of it fills the sycophants with desperate horror. What he said is despicable and then he accused the reporter of lying, Der Spiegel of lying and defiantly dared them to prove it, all while saying the same things to another publication. He f***ed around and found out and lost. He is an unrepentant liar, and we know this from so many of his interactions with other people, you can't come back from that. He's lost all his friends, cannot conduct business because of his deceit and entitlement, his entire life is f***ed and he just keeps doing it. Naturally, his apologists will viciously attack anyone pointing this out, and it would not bother them so much if it wasn't completely true.
Defending a serial rapist is abhorrent and makes you wonder if he really meant it when he wrote Suffer Little Children or did he write it because he believed, like all narcissists do, that it was really about him in some way because it happened where he lived. How about Bonfire of Teenagers? He pointed out it happened on his birthday and where he is from, so a narcissist would see it as being about him. Has he cared about any victim he has ever written about or just done it for attention?

 

[Anonbloke]

I guess the Der Spiegel situation pretty much validated Judge John Weeks' characterisation of Morrissey as "devious, truculent and unreliable when his own interests were at stake"

 

[Redacted]

Morrissey thinks someone should be imprisoned for 'stealing' his passport, but not for sexual assault.
Tells you something about his moral compass, or lack thereof.

 

[BrummieBoy]

Don't presume that just because someone down-votes you means they read more than a couple of words of this diarrhea deluge

...thanks for confirming you vote on comments you haven't read...you do realise what you've just admitted to?

...other posters will no doubt add this damning admission to the case file they've opened on you.

You are a sycophant and a totally delusional person who, like Morrissey, thinks that florid word salads signify intelligent debate.

In the nursing home you and Malarkey will still be wittering on about The Great NME Conspiracy To Destroy Morrissey By Calling Him A Gay!!!

...and Morrissey himself will be in the same state of delusion but having his adult nappies changed by a concierge nurse in some bleak 5* dungeon hotel, locked away by those who will seek to stop him totally destroying the monetary value of his artistic legacy by spouting garbage to Der Spiegel...etcetera.

 

[BrummieBoy]

It is, it shows what an absolute raging malignant narcissist he is and that it why the mere mention of it fills the sycophants with desperate horror. What he said is despicable and then he accused the reporter of lying, Der Spiegel of lying and defiantly dared them to prove it, all while saying the same things to another publication. He f***ed around and found out and lost. He is an unrepentant liar, and we know this from so many of his interactions with other people, you can't come back from that. He's lost all his friends, cannot conduct business because of his deceit and entitlement, his entire life is f***ed and he just keeps doing it. Naturally, his apologists will viciously attack anyone pointing this out, and it would not bother them so much if it wasn't completely true.
Defending a serial rapist is abhorrent and makes you wonder if he really meant it when he wrote Suffer Little Children or did he write it because he believed, like all narcissists do, that it was really about him in some way because it happened where he lived. How about Bonfire of Teenagers? He pointed out it happened on his birthday and where he is from, so a narcissist would see it as being about him. Has he cared about any victim he has ever written about or just done it for attention?

Your comment is the coffin wherein the credibility of M's career is now laid.

But 'Bonfire Of Teenagers' will be the final nail if he releases it.

This ethical imbecile who mocked the murders of innocent Norwegian teenagers slaughtered by Brievik in Oslo at a political summer camp now expects to be taken seriously as he sheds crocodile tears about the Manchester Arena Atrocity Exhibition? After his attempt yo monetise the Bataclan slaughter?

He is clearly a delusional fantasist who sees himself as a rebellious social commentator but the truth is he's just an annoying face-time attention whore troll with a melodious gift for vocal performances. That'll he's ever been. He stalks any and all controversies purely to pivot public attention on to his latest insipid recordings. He got lucky when his pseudo-personas morphed from mullet-haired disco moppet to doomed poet to launch The Smiths and he's been a Karaoke tribute act to that iteration of his flawed reinvention ever since.

I thought it would be a posthumous reapprausal but the clown went too far and the Liberal elites who'd initially foisted him onto the public as a castrated make feminist suddenly 'woke' up and screamed in horrified unison as they realised he will spout any nonsense that passes his dimwit brain if he thinks he'll gain a dopamine rush from the ensuing forte. Now, they just ignore him whilst mourning their mistake in giving him a platform to begin with...For Britain?...Seriously? He is as thick as pigshit. He is a troll. Enjoy his consumers products and experiences if it gives you pleasure but don't drink his Kool Aid.

BrummieBoy
...by the banks of the sacred Sabrina river...

Mercia Rising
Engerland

 

[gordyboy9]

Morrissey thinks someone should be imprisoned for 'stealing' his passport, but not for sexual assault.
Tells you something about his moral compass, or lack thereof.

are you still talking about spacey,dont know if you have noticed but he was found not guilty in america and not guilty in great britain.
shirley manson was his biggest ctitic at the time with her f*** you morrissey comment now she has changed her tune with the meet n greet a while ago.spaceys fortune is gone,is that not enough punishment for an innocent man or does the verdict not matter.

 

[Redacted]

are you still talking about spacey,dont know if you have noticed but he was found not guilty in america and not guilty in great britain.
shirley manson was his biggest ctitic at the time with her f*** you morrissey comment now she has changed her tune with the meet n greet a while ago.spaceys fortune is gone,is that not enough punishment for an innocent man or does the verdict not matter.

You know nothing of his case or how these cases are handled, so shut it. At the time of Morrissey's comment, Spacey had apologized for what he had done to the boy, an innocent person does not do that. Morrissey blamed a child for his own assault, I will go on about it all I want. The entire goddamn verdict was based on Anthoy Rapp recalling the apartment as a 1 bedroom instead of studio apartment. That is not justice. There wasn't even a trial or a verdict when Morrisey rendered his ignorant despicable opinion. He thought Anthony Rapp went to a hotel alone with Spacey, which would STILL put the responsibility on Spacey.

Fiona should address this if she wants to keep defending Morrissey.

And it's really f***ing gross that men keep defending this.

 

[gashonthenail]

And, lest we forget, Moz was right about mass immigration, rape, and sexual assault. Who would have thought that allowing boat load after boat load of young men into your country might, just might, have an impact on crime statistics? No shit, Sherlock. But, of course, the left only care about 'victims' as long as they are non-white and non-Jewish. The rest of the interview was Moz talking about #MeToo, not Harvey Weinstein, that is clear from the audio, and then suggesting that the allegations made against Kevin Spacey didn't sound very 'believable' - turns out the jury agreed with him.

Germany is acknowledging the unspeakable | Andrew Hammel | The Critic Magazine

In spring 2024, Herbert Reul, Interior Minister of Germany’s most populous state(22 million inhabitants), Northern Rhine-Westphalia, said something remarkable: “We have a problem with non-German…

thecritic.co.uk

 

[gordyboy9]

You know nothing of his case or how these cases are handled, so shut it. At the time of Morrissey's comment, Spacey had apologized for what he had done to the boy, an innocent person does not do that. Morrissey blamed a child for his own assault, I will go on about it all I want. The entire goddamn verdict was based on Anthoy Rapp recalling the apartment as a 1 bedroom instead of studio apartment. That is not justice. There wasn't even a trial or a verdict when Morrisey rendered his ignorant despicable opinion.

just accept the not guilty verdict and let spacey build his career back up because no matter what you think he was a very good actor.ps-no i wont shut it.