Fiona Dodwell: "How Morrissey outran The Smiths (and why his critics will never admit it)" (February 18, 2021)

How Morrissey outran The Smiths (and why his critics will never admit it)

Excerpt:

"There’s an emergence of voices rising from the rotting grave of political correctness lately, in a feeble attempt to somehow make Morrissey’s art into nothing more than a shadow of The Smiths. In reality though, to many, he was the beating heart of the much-loved 80s quartet and unlike his bandmates, he became so much more.
There are many voices online using the tired old trope, “I won’t listen to Morrissey because I don’t agree with his views, but I’ll always have The Smiths.” If this sentiment were limited only to the dull echo chambers of anonymous social media users, it might not be so bad. Yet it does not stop there."





Regards,
FWD.

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Now linked to by Central:

APPRAISAL - MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY - MORRISSEY CENTRAL - APPRAISAL

MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY on MORRISSEY CENTRAL

www.morrisseycentral.com

 

[Surface]

Why?

Every conversation would be one-sided if it was continually positive (or negative), and Morrissey has always been a divisive figure who provoked debate. How is it any more 'futile' for a fan to criticise M than it is for one to praise him endlessly - & are either of them really trying to 'change his behaviour'? Every point you make can be reflected back at you. What does it 'benefit' anyone to post on here - do you think Moz cares, are you hoping for a cookie? The fawning - and the critical - post for the same reasons.

Waste of time debating with her Amy. She asked what are people trying to achieve by criticising Morrissey when Morrissey himself has a track record of criticising lots of people, for example....

The Mayor of London tells us about ‘Neighborhood policin’ — what is ‘policin’? He tells us London is an ‘amazin’ city. What is ‘amazin’? This is the Mayor of London! And he cannot talk properly!”

What was Morrissey's goal with his criticism of Sadiq Khan's? As far as I can tell, Khan still speaks the way he always has, so Morrissey achieved nothing apart from adding fuel to the fire for people who think he's a racist.

 

[Deleted member 29417]

Waste of time debating with her Amy. She asked what are people trying to achieve by criticising Morrissey when Morrissey himself has a track record of criticising lots of people, for example....

The Mayor of London tells us about ‘Neighborhood policin’ — what is ‘policin’? He tells us London is an ‘amazin’ city. What is ‘amazin’? This is the Mayor of London! And he cannot talk properly!”

What was Morrissey's goal with his criticism of Sadiq Khan's? As far as I can tell, Khan still speaks the way he always has, so Morrissey achieved nothing apart from adding fuel to the fire for people who think he's a racist.

He was suggesting he's a politician who isn't communicating effectively.

He never likes anyone who gets elected, unless they resign or get sacked.

 

[Surface]

He was suggesting he's a politician who isn't communicating effectively.

He never likes anyone who gets elected, unless they resign or get sacked.

You're missing the point Karen, Ketamine has been asking what is the goal of people criticising Morrissey, the post is about the fact that Morrissey criticises people, so what's his goal?

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Why?

Every conversation would be one-sided if it was continually positive (or negative), and Morrissey has always been a divisive figure who provoked debate. How is it any more 'futile' for a fan to criticise M than it is for one to praise him endlessly - & are either of them really trying to 'change his behaviour'? Every point you make can be reflected back at you. What does it 'benefit' anyone to post on here - do you think Moz cares, are you hoping for a cookie? The fawning - and the critical - post for the same reasons.

No. In regards to posting opinions here about Morrissey I believe
there is a difference between positive criticism and negative criticism. And having both positive opinion and opinions in the form of positive criticisms would lead to healthy and beneficial conversations between people here. Of course the healthiest
and best way to post an opposing view to Morrissey is to not post an opinion at all, or simply post that you don’t agree and move on. With this you must agree is the sanest thing to do, no?

I’m wondering if people by posting negative opinions about Morrissey think they are indeed going to change Morrissey or someone, if not, who or what are they benefiting or trying to achieve by posting such opinions? This has yet to be explained or answered. Still very curious.


No I don’t think my points can be reflected back at me, because it would be insane or just plain laughable to think that I or any fan believes that Morrissey reads the opinions of people here, and thinks that their positive opinions will win his attention, praises or something. Though I guess I could only speak for myself on that account.
And no, being positive and sharing in conversation the joy the music or the art of Morrissey brings to us is not futile at all. It’s wonderful when it happens. It’s just healthier for everyone.

Yes, but I’m not saying that one can’t be critical or not agree with Morrissey’s actions or what he says,
it’s just the continuous negative opinions here that don’t achieve anything good, nor will it benefit anyone that visits here.

 

[Deleted member 29417]

You're missing the point Karen, Ketamine has been asking what is the goal of people criticising Morrissey, the post is about the fact that Morrissey criticises people, so what's his goal?

Moaning cheers him up, probably.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Waste of time debating with her Amy. She asked what are people trying to achieve by criticising Morrissey when Morrissey himself has a track record of criticising lots of people, for example....

The Mayor of London tells us about ‘Neighborhood policin’ — what is ‘policin’? He tells us London is an ‘amazin’ city. What is ‘amazin’? This is the Mayor of London! And he cannot talk properly!”

What was Morrissey's goal with his criticism of Sadiq Khan's? As far as I can tell, Khan still speaks the way he always has, so Morrissey achieved nothing apart from adding fuel to the fire for people who think he's a racist.

So tell us, does Morrissey have that much of an influence over you?


Monkey see, monkey do ? And you call other people ‘mozbots’. Lol.

 

[Amy]

Of course the healthiest
and best way to post an opposing view to Morrissey is to not post an opinion at all

Which is censorship - exactly what I said in my opening post. Everything you asked, I answered, and yet you haven't engaged with a single thing I've said - you've just parroted the same questions back at me about 'trying to change him' etc etc. Frustrating and pointless.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Which is censorship - exactly what I said in my opening post. Everything you asked, I answered, and yet you haven't engaged with a single thing I've said - you've just parroted the same questions back at me about 'trying to change him' etc etc. Frustrating and pointless.

No not censorship, you pulled what I said out of context. I said ...

‘Of course the healthiest
and best way to post an opposing view to Morrissey is to not post an opinion at all, or simply post that you don’t agree and move on. With this you must agree is the sanest thing to do, no?

I’ve answered all your questions. It’s
you that can’t answer mine.

Such as ....



I’m wondering if people by posting negative opinions about Morrissey think they are indeed going to change Morrissey or someone, if not, who or what are they benefiting or trying to achieve by posting such opinions? This has yet to be explained or answered. Still very curious.

 

[Amy]

Waste of time debating with her Amy.

Despite reams of confused bluster, all it boils down to is "I don't like your opinions, therefore they are futile and unhealthy and you should stop posting them". No chance.

 

[Uncleskinny]

Waste of time debating with her Amy. She asked what are people trying to achieve by criticising Morrissey when Morrissey himself has a track record of criticising lots of people, for example....

The Mayor of London tells us about ‘Neighborhood policin’ — what is ‘policin’? He tells us London is an ‘amazin’ city. What is ‘amazin’? This is the Mayor of London! And he cannot talk properly!”

What was Morrissey's goal with his criticism of Sadiq Khan's? As far as I can tell, Khan still speaks the way he always has, so Morrissey achieved nothing apart from adding fuel to the fire for people who think he's a racist.

He''s a brown person. That's what our hero focuses on.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

‘brown people’ and a pop star is your ‘hero’? Wowee!


And who do you focus on?

 

[Amy]

I’m wondering if people by posting negative opinions about Morrissey think they are indeed going to change Morrissey or someone, if not, who or what are they benefiting or trying to achieve by posting such opinions? This has yet to be explained or answered. Still very curious.

I've already said this - the critical fans and the fawning ones post for the same reasons. For discussion. For debate and mutual interests. They are not trying to 'achieve' anything beyond that, they are not trying to change M. They are expressing opinions. And you will never succeed in smothering the ones you don't like, sorry.

 

[Surface]

So tell us, does Morrissey have that much of an influence over you?


Monkey see, monkey do ? And you call other people ‘mozbots’. Lol.

Morrissey has no influence over me at all. If he dropped dead tomorrow I would think, oh well, that’s sad but it happens to us all eventually.

 

[Boomer]

That's sad to hear, if it's true. Is he the only one from Manchester who dares stand up against the terrorists and the meat industry, and could it be that maybe the working class are jealous of him, and therefore they respond with aggression/hate/distancing/calling him intolerant because of e.g. ignorance? And also because he wants to keep/conserve real english culture and protect it against multiculturalism/islamisation/americanisation?

You are an Idiot. You honestly believe that people who don’t like the crap that Morrissey has been spouting of late is because *they* are ignorant? Oh, and Working Class, obviously.

This Irish Mancunian is interested to know what bits of “real english (sic) culture” another Irish Mancunian is the grand protector of?

I’m all ears. Do enlighten me.

 

[Deleted member 29417]

You are an Idiot. You honestly believe that people who don’t like the crap that Morrissey has been spouting of late is because *they* are ignorant? Oh, and Working Class, obviously.

This Irish Mancunian is interested to know what bits of “real english (sic) culture” another Irish Mancunian is the grand protector of?

I’m all ears. Do enlighten me.

If Moz had used the correct word - gentrification - he could have attacked a cereal cafe.

Still, can't believe this is a meeting that actually happened...

Find an Answer | London City Hall

www.london.gov.uk

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

I've already said this - the critical fans and the fawning ones post for the same reasons. For discussion. For debate and mutual interests. They are not trying to 'achieve' anything beyond that, they are not trying to change M. They are expressing opinions. And you will never succeed in smothering the ones you don't like, sorry.

Lol. I have no intention of smothering anyone or thing, except with kisses!


Finally. We may be getting somewhere...

“For debate and mutual interests.”

Can we say that mutual interests and sharing in that interest through conversation is fulfilling a human desire to belong?
If so, then sharing and being able to share that feeling of belonging is, I believe an achievement and most likely one’s goal when posting.

I already basically said this in (maybe you missed it?)post #163 but @Surface refused to reply to it, maybe because he never thought of it that way, or maybe he was ashamed that that was the reason why he makes posts. And as I said in that post to him, that it’s nothing to be ashamed about, the human desire and need to belong.


But still I just don’t believe that there can be much joy or healthy
benefits in having mutual agreement through the sharing
of negative criticisms, it doesn’t really seem to go anywhere that’s good.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Morrissey has no influence over me at all. If he dropped dead tomorrow I would think, oh well, that’s sad but it happens to us all eventually.

But you basically said in your post #181 that if it’s alright for Morrissey to criticizes people then it’s alright for me to criticize people.

So he does have an influence over you.


further into the fog you fall ...

 

[Surface]

But you basically said in your post #181 that if it’s alright for Morrissey to criticizes people then it’s alright for me to criticize people.

So he does have an influence over you.


further into the fog you fall ...

No fog in my world Ketamine, take a look in the mirror.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

No fog in my world Ketamine, take a look in the mirror.

Reread your post #181

You basically said that if it’s alright for Morrissey to criticizes people then it’s alright for you to criticize people.

So he does have an influence over you.


Maybe the fog of fandom is getting too thick for you to reread your post?

 

[Anonymous]

What did sad, lonely, middle-aged men do before the internet was invented for them to snipe at each other all night?