Morrissey Central "Witness To The World" (December 10, 2022)

WITNESS TO THE WORLD - MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY - MORRISSEY CENTRAL - WITNESS TO THE WORLD

MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY on MORRISSEY CENTRAL

www.morrisseycentral.com

 

[bhops]

Wow - that is a controversial point of view!
I wasn't just talking musically though. I think Quarry also represents a high water mark for him in terms of his career. His star has definitely dwindled since then in many ways. Artistically though he is still writing great material, and his voice is better than ever.

Yes I remember him never being bigger commercially speaking. I also remember the glowing reviews for Quarry and thinking 'what is all the fuss about?' Don't get me wrong, it's a good album, but I just felt by his standards it wasn't one of his greats.

 

[That's Enough For Me]

If that's how you want to see it, then every song and every poem expressing misery were written for "attention seeking purposes." The artist just vents the spleen. It's up to others whether they want to listen.

Not exactly an altruistic act of sparing a soul misery by bringing them into the world to succeed is it?

 

[gashonthenail]

Yes I remember him never being bigger commercially speaking. I also remember the glowing reviews for Quarry and thinking 'what is all the fuss about?' Don't get me wrong, it's a good album, but I just felt by his standards it wasn't one of his greats.

I wouldn't totally disagree with that. Although I did understand the fuss, especially given the strength of IBEH as a single, and the long gap between Maladjusted and Quarry that created the feel of something of a 'comeback' when Quarry was released. Quarry is a better album than Maladjusted or Uncle. But Viva, Arsenal, Vauxhall, and perhaps some people may find this controversial, Southpaw, are all better albums than Quarry in my view.

 

[Roman Holiday]

Not exactly an altruistic act of sparing a soul misery by bringing them into the world to succeed is it?

But having material success doesn't promise that a person won't be miserable. Jesus, whom Morrissey seems to hold responsible, should've known that. (Matthew 4:8-10 & 16:26).

Morrissey perceives the sufferings of the world too acutely. It's a curse, and ignorance is bliss, and ignorance only comes with eternal rest.

 

[Roman Holiday]

‘Those who have suffered, understand suffering
And thereby extend their hand
The storm that brings harm
Also makes fertile
Blessed is the grass
And herb and the true thorn and light’

- Patti Lee Smith

She seems to be saying that someone's suffering is worth it because someone else benefits. Sorry, Asian kid in the sweatshop or dairy cow in the factory farm, but the fortunate ones need their iPhones and Hermes bags and cheeseburgers, and "blessed is the grass," if you can comprehend such gooeyness.

No, I'm not buying that. "Life is a pigsty."

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

She seems to be saying that someone's suffering is worth it because someone else benefits. Sorry, Asian kid in the sweatshop or dairy cow in the factory farm, but the fortunate ones need their iPhones and Hermes bags and cheeseburgers, and "blessed is the grass," if you can comprehend such gooeyness.

No, I'm not buying that. "Life is a pigsty."

Well with the lyric pulled out of context, I guess one could come to various interpretations/meaning.

But the song from which it was plucked is Rock n Roll n*****.

She is singing about the Artist/outsider.

They the artist have suffered.

‘the extended hand’ = is the art.

‘The storm that brings harm’ = one’s life experiences /this world that shapes one and what can be first perceived as harmful negative…

‘Also makes fertile’ = is a actually a lesson, these experiences and/or clay/material ‘GRIST FOR THE MILL’ for the artist/alchemist to change from dark to light/bad to good/shit into gold

‘Blessed is the grass’ = the fruit of suffering
is sweet and positive, the artist’s work, the extended hand to share with the world the expression of their unique viewpoint, the storm they’ve weathered, riches brought back from their inner journeys, etc. ..

 

[Roman Holiday]

Well with the lyric pulled out of context, I guess one could come to various interpretations/meaning.

But the song from which it was plucked is Rock n Roll n*****.

Yes, it's the cryptic spoken-word intro to that song. I never quite knew she meant by "in heart I am a Moslem," either, so I can't claim to catch her meaning in it much. "Moslem" isn't really a good analogy to "n*gger," if that's how she intended it.

She is singing about the Artist/outsider.

They the artist have suffered.

‘the extended hand’ = is the art.

‘The storm that brings harm’ = one’s life experiences /this world that shapes one and what can be first perceived as harmful negative…

‘Also makes fertile’ = is a actually a lesson, these experiences and/or clay/material ‘GRIST FOR THE MILL’ for the artist/alchemist to change from dark to light/bad to good/shit into gold

‘Blessed is the grass’ = the fruit of suffering
is sweet and positive, the artist work, the extended hand to share with the world the expression of their unique viewpoint, etc. ..

I suppose that would all apply to Morrissey: the artist may suffer, but the suffering brings forth good fruit. I'd agree, but I still think (in opposition to some on here, not you) that the artist can express a desire for death without it being venal or narcissistic.

 

[smiler]

Yes I remember him never being bigger commercially speaking. I also remember the glowing reviews for Quarry and thinking 'what is all the fuss about?' Don't get me wrong, it's a good album, but I just felt by his standards it wasn't one of his greats.

Quarry came about after a long break in recording - He'd given up, had run out of steam, his relationship broke down, he couldn't find a record deal, the press (The NME) had turned against him, he was almost hounded out of London and then....... he disappeared for a while. While he was away the internet was becoming a thing and suddenly his fans became a "community". I seem to remember a press release at the time were he suggested he had retired for good (would love someone to find that...). Then he suddenly started touring again and doing new songs, and doing interviews - trying to catch a record deal again (just like now). He played some high profile gigs at which he showcased half of the new album live. That album was Quarry and then the Importance Of Being Morrissey documentary followed on UK TV which positioned him as an icon and at the same time gave him the opportunity to counter the racism accusations. Suddenly he was more popular than ever before, considerably more popular than the Smiths ever were and he sustained that popularity for many years. Its funny watching his career unfold, the peaks commercially come in waves. Its like a tide. I guess its generational and the peaks don't always match the high quality songs.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Yes, it's the cryptic spoken-word intro to that song. I never quite knew she meant by "in heart I am a Moslem," either, so I can't claim to catch her meaning in it much. "Moslem" isn't really a good analogy to "n*gger," if that's how she intended it.

That’s the piece called ‘babelogue’ slapped on the beginning.

Don’t know her intentions, can only speculate on what I know through media and her work. But Patti’s work, not all, seems a grab bag of interests that excite and that she can spark off.
Why ‘I am Moslem’ and ‘I am an American artist’? She embodies both? Did she just read Malcom X’s bio? Is being Muslim simply something an unknown to her, being inspired by the mystery of it and bringing it into her own work, not that she had any intention of expanding on it, just more GRIST FOR THE MILL, like a bird collecting shiny objects to decorate a nest, the great work!


In my last post, the lyric I was discussing is found in what can be called the breakdown with the funky bass solo, that’s the part of the song.

I suppose that would all apply to Morrissey: the artist may suffer, but the suffering brings forth good fruit. I'd agree, but I still think (in opposition to some on here, not you) that the artist can express a desire for death without it being venal or narcissistic.

Well, the ones that are ‘touched’ in a good way, understand such things.


One of M’s favorites, Patti’s ode to death (and nod to Morrison) …

 

[Daytona h]

I think the American justice system is the most evil in the world. The police are…… …… ….., and the D As, no other way to describe them. I have spent about 30 hours + researching a case. In fact in less than half an hour I saw the truth. Al McClean and Amanda Hinze are innocent. Guilty of stupidity, nothing more. Jennifer is sweet but nuts, she hung them. Plus the dishonest media used them for dramatic headlines. The state were the guilty ones ( Al Mt called cps for help 30 plus times and the police for poor Takoda,) who had been damaged from birth to a drug addict mother (she’s been awarded 3 million dollors I hear) and foster care, where he was certainly abused, before he was with this naïve couple. Only one person out of hundreds on YouTube agreed with me. The most tragic case I’ve EVER known, and I’ve known plenty. Do not bear false witness. It is important to adhere to because it’s the most sinful thing to do. It would make a great Netflix Doc. Poor Al and Amanda. Injustice personified. This case has so much hidden from the public. Why?

 

[goinghome]

yep, and sad, that man needs an outside angency or law, besides one’s own, in order to leash one’s desires as to not harm others. The story is old ...

But my take on M’s ‘SELF SELF SELF’ seems to be a positive, and the simple advice to be bold, to stay true to one’s self/dream, to let it shape and guide you, no matter how much at odds with the rest of the world it seems.

What you think?

I think there's usually a balance to be struck, but often people don't or can't take the time to know themselves and incubate dreams that suit them, rather than being pieces of other people's visions without any sense of choice?

Patti Smith's song Fire of Unknown Origin seems like a grief song to me, not one wishing for or praising death at all, except for its relentlessness? Hadn't heard it before, thanks : )

 

[gashonthenail]

Quarry came about after a long break in recording - He'd given up, had run out of steam, his relationship broke down, he couldn't find a record deal, the press (The NME) had turned against him, he was almost hounded out of London and then....... he disappeared for a while. While he was away the internet was becoming a thing and suddenly his fans became a "community". I seem to remember a press release at the time were he suggested he had retired for good (would love someone to find that...). Then he suddenly started touring again and doing new songs, and doing interviews - trying to catch a record deal again (just like now). He played some high profile gigs at which he showcased half of the new album live. That album was Quarry and then the Importance Of Being Morrissey documentary followed on UK TV which positioned him as an icon and at the same time gave him the opportunity to counter the racism accusations. Suddenly he was more popular than ever before, considerably more popular than the Smiths ever were and he sustained that popularity for many years. Its funny watching his career unfold, the peaks commercially come in waves. Its like a tide. I guess its generational and the peaks don't always match the high quality songs.

He announced he was planning to retire at 55 didn't he?
I do wonder if Without Music may be his last album. The title does have a valedictory ring to it.

 

[smiler]

He announced he was planning to retire at 55 didn't he?
I do wonder if Without Music may be his last album. The title does have a valedictory ring to it.

I'm thinking around 1996 - so when he was in his late thirties - shortly after the court case.

 

[bhops]

I wouldn't totally disagree with that. Although I did understand the fuss, especially given the strength of IBEH as a single, and the long gap between Maladjusted and Quarry that created the feel of something of a 'comeback' when Quarry was released. Quarry is a better album than Maladjusted or Uncle. But Viva, Arsenal, Vauxhall, and perhaps some people may find this controversial, Southpaw, are all better albums than Quarry in my view.

I actually prefer Maladjusted and may even prefer Uncle, depending on the time of the day LOL.

IBEH is a GREAT single though, yet Jerry Finn also totally f***ed up Crashing Bores.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

I actually prefer Maladjusted and may even prefer Uncle, depending on the time of the day LOL.

IBEH is a GREAT single though, yet Jerry Finn also totally f***ed up Crashing Bores.

the time of day is important!

in a way both Uncle and Maladjusted are kind of ‘gray’ albums, morose but sweet, i don’t know, lol.

 

[gashonthenail]

"Power is the power to make another suffer. This is an unavoidable corollary to the story-of-self that underlies our civilization: the discrete and separate self in an objective universe. In that universe, for that self, more for me is less for you, by definition. By that axiom, to serve the common good it is necessary to suppress the individual, for the individual is a maximizer of self-interest at the likely expense of everyone else. For the common good, the individual must suffer. Therefore, the power to make someone suffer is also the power to do good. What we call evil rests upon the deep axiom I mentioned before: the Total Depravity of Man, the lordship of the ego.

Let me state the logic in another way. In a world of competing separate selves seeking to maximize rational self-interest, some authority is needed to suppress this interest-seeking for the sake of the common good. The discipline it imposes, whether “party discipline” as in the former communist countries, or religious or ethical discipline, or the discipline of the marketplace in capitalism, is from the individual's point of view a kind of suffering. People must be made to do what they don't want to do, and to refrain from doing what they do want to do. Internalized, it is a war against the self, a fight against desire or pleasure, a battle of biology against will..." - https://charleseisenstein.substack....on_id=427455&post_id=89322864&isFreemail=true

Power is the power to make another suffer.
That's a very distorted view of power. Power is simply a tool - a tool that can be used for good or a tool that can be used for bad. Power was used to create the NHS. Power was used to end slavery. How power is used is the key thing - and also how it is limited. Power should never be absolute, there should always be checks and balances on power - because power is a drug, and a very powerful drug at that. As the famous saying goes - All power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

 

[goinghome]

Power is the power to make another suffer.
That's a very distorted view of power. Power is simply a tool - a tool that can be used for good or a tool that can be used for bad. Power was used to create the NHS. Power was used to end slavery. How power is used is the key thing - and also how it is limited. Power should never be absolute, there should always be checks and balances on power - because power is a drug, and a very powerful drug at that. As the famous saying goes - All power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Well said. Though it's hard to reign in corrupted power once it gets going, when the pattern is that others' lives become dispensable. And seeing as you're able to disagree with grace, and share why, here's a reflective piece I 'collected' earlier, especially with you in mind, about the importance of disagreement or really debate, for practising democracy : )

 

[goinghome]

Yes, it’s very depressing. Society doesn’t really nurture or allow the individual that liberty. There’s a price to pay if one dares to live their dream.









Yes, agree! it is a grief song, like a blues song actually. I did say ‘Patti’s ode to death’ and the definition is ‘a lyric poem in the form of an address to a particular subject’. I think it it fills the bill. Glad I can share a new song with you!

Gotcha. Did you ever hear Bruce Springsteen's version of Dream Baby Dream? It's quite good imo.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Gotcha. Did you ever hear Bruce Springsteen's version of Dream Baby Dream? It's quite good imo.

sure. It’s great Bruce champions Suicide! Which were 100 times cooler than he could ever be! Thank you Bruce for getting that Suicide vibe out there onto your unsuspecting audience!

 

[gashonthenail]

Well said. Though it's hard to reign in corrupted power once it gets going, when the pattern is that others' lives become dispensable. And seeing as you're able to disagree with grace, and share why, here's a reflective piece I 'collected' earlier, especially with you in mind, about the importance of disagreement or really debate, for practising democracy : )

How to disagree should be taught in schools.
Avoid labels - now there's a thought for these social media times...