Morrissey Central "Witness To The World" (December 10, 2022)

WITNESS TO THE WORLD - MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY - MORRISSEY CENTRAL - WITNESS TO THE WORLD

MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY on MORRISSEY CENTRAL

www.morrisseycentral.com

 

[Robert Lee]

You Are The Quarry lurks somewhere in bottom
3 of his Solo albums. Yeah I said it.

Hey, thats what I love about this place. Differing opinions and tastes make it spicey. I myself have an against the grain choice for my least favourite Moz album...

Your Arsenal. Although I enjoy it as with all of his stuff I've never clicked with it. The producer Mick Ronson's grave is right near my grandparents grave. Eastern Cemetery, Kingston upon Hull. Errr, not that its relevant

 

[Roman Holiday]

It's funny how often Moz often calls for death/rest but never schedules time in his diary to die/rest.

It's funny how often he says he has no value, yet keeps taking money off people and exchange for his 'value'.

He's not trying to spare anyone suffering, goodness knows he dishes enough out to those unlucky enough to work with him.

He's keeping all the attention for himself with minimum responsibility.

Meanwhile the marketing of the party line has worked very well on his audience, hence your post.

Wanting to die and having the nerve to commit suicide are two different things.

 

[That's Enough For Me]

Wanting to die and having the nerve to commit suicide are two different things.

True, which when repeatedly committed to a recording and made available for the consumption of the entre planet for decades in exchange for money, suggests it's done for attention seeking purposes.

'Spare a child from suffering', my arse. (comma was critical there)

 

[Roman Holiday]

True, which when repeatedly committed to a recording and made available for the consumption of the entre planet for decades in exchange for money, suggests it's done for attention seeking purposes.

If that's how you want to see it, then every song and every poem expressing misery were written for "attention seeking purposes." The artist just vents the spleen. It's up to others whether they want to listen.

 

[Moz Fan]

Wanting to die and having the nerve to commit suicide are two different things.

I see it differently.

Wanting to die is a relatively common human thought. Most of the time, just a fleeting thought at difficult times. I've experienced it myself .

Commiting suicide is more related to lack of perspective in really desperate situations, or mental illness.

Keep on living requires much more nerve.

 

[Roman Holiday]

I see it differently.

Wanting to die is a relatively common human thought. Most of the time, just a fleeting thought at difficult times. I've experienced it myself .

Commiting suicide is more related to lack of perspective in really desperate situations, or mental illness.

Keep on living requires much more nerve.

There's probably a bell curve for how often people have thoughts desiring death, with "just a fleeting thought at difficult times" being the mean. It doesn't mean there won't be some people at the far end. History records many suicides whose final act did not come as a surprise.

 

[gashonthenail]

You Are The Quarry lurks somewhere in bottom
3 of his Solo albums. Yeah I said it.

Wow - that is a controversial point of view!
I wasn't just talking musically though. I think Quarry also represents a high water mark for him in terms of his career. His star has definitely dwindled since then in many ways. Artistically though he is still writing great material, and his voice is better than ever.

 

[gashonthenail]

I see it differently.

Wanting to die is a relatively common human thought. Most of the time, just a fleeting thought at difficult times. I've experienced it myself .

Commiting suicide is more related to lack of perspective in really desperate situations, or mental illness.

Keep on living requires much more nerve.

It can also be a calm, thoughtful decision to choose how to end one's life well - as in assisted suicide or euthanasia (literally a 'good death').
The most common cause of suicide, believe it or not, is being in debt. That really is sad - to end your life because of money, or lack of money. But such is the craziness of the world we have created that money seems to be the basis of everything - what we base our happiness on, and what we base our misery on.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

your post

Yeah, it's a shame, it feels like he's running out of lyrics to fill a whole song, and I think it started happening in 2014 with World Peace. In my opinion, in the absence of decent, clever lyrics, they have declined into really repetitive songs, whereby he repeats the same verse over and over (Kiss Me A Lot: When You Open Your Legs - although I actually like these songs), cack-handed, corny rhyming (Who Will Protect Us From the Police (easily one of his worst songs), Bullfighter, What Kind of People Live In These Houses, Rebels Without Applause - the latter is a nice tune though), and just downright not that good in comparison to his previous work (almost the whole of Dog).

I just feel like the wit and cleverness behind his lyrics has faded, which I can completely understand, as I suspect it is incredibly difficult to maintain the quality he had in The Smiths, his early solo work and 2004-2006 solo stuff. It's saying something when one of his best songs since 2014 was a Pretenders cover.

I don't think this is one of his worst songs though, certainly lyrically, it's just a bit of a boring tune. Slide guitar is nice though. Very honky-tonk.

my comment

when comparing to their early work, it’s difficult to think of many great writers that have maintained their original form, a loss of vigor sets in, their fans complain.

Obviously there’s going to be changes in a writers evolution, so come the expected complaints from those that prefer a certain style, or more importantly, complaints from those that have identified with an earlier image of what they believe that artist is and what they believe that artist should only write about and how they should write. So with that identification in place, it’s difficult to accept an artist’s later art.
I prefer the earlier work of many artists, and I don’t really listen to their later work, with the two exceptions being Bowie and Scott Walker. But for me, with Morrissey, it’s really about his voice. The other day I was really enjoying Rebels Without Applause, and realized how perfect it was, perfect for me, in that moment, at this time in my life.

Of course there’s the repetition and a change in, shall we say, poetic direction, so subjectivity, taste plays a role in our judgments. But if one can put aside those preferences, they will find that in actuality, all his later work is great, when not comparing it to his earlier work. It’s strange how we automatically compare, rather than appreciating and enjoying what’s new before us, maybe it’s easier to live in a past that’s familiar to us. Though I’m not denying that taste and mood plays a huge part in deciding what we are going to listen to.

today, for me ….

The irony being that in my last message, I very clearly said that some of his more recent stuff is actually ok, and that I even really like some of his songs that have clumsy lyrics (When You Open Your Legs is one of my favourite Morrissey songs. The music is great, and the lyrics are pure lovely filth).

But no, if you dare compare Morrissey's work to Morrissey's work (which he does himself), even when comparing recent lyrics to recent lyrics, you're a terrible person, stuck in the past, afraid of "evolution".

It's perfectly OK to critique the work of your favourite artist, even to dislike some of their music (God forbid!). Morrissey himself hasn't always been kind to some of his faves (e.g. Bowie).

My reply to your post was NOT an attack on your comments, your likes or dislikes.



I also rated your post informative. And replied because I agreed with some of it, and was just adding my opinion on the subject of lyrics,etc.


So tell us, where did I say ‘if you dare compare Morrissey's work to Morrissey's work’ then that means ‘you're a terrible person, stuck in the past, afraid of "evolution”?

I said …. ‘It’s strange how we automatically compare, rather than appreciating and enjoying what’s new before us, maybe it’s easier to live in a past that’s familiar to us. Though I’m not denying that taste and mood plays a huge part in deciding what we are going to listen to.’


So I’m saying … I’m guilty of comparing songs myself. Nowhere did I say that anyone was ‘terrible’ for doing so. I was saying, I believe being aware of these comparisons that we make, can give one the chance to hear the music differently. That is all.



And yes of course… ‘It's perfectly OK to critique the work of your favourite artist, even to dislike some of their music’. Where did I deny you the pleasure from doing so? and say that it wasn’t OK?

As I said in my post, there’s a lot of artists that I love, even though I only listen to their earlier work. Meaning that, I also critique and even dislike some of my favorite artists music. And I even criticized his recent lyrics in that post by saying .. ‘Of course there’s the repetition and a change in, shall we say, poetic direction’.



But it seems you missed that bit, and misread the rest and took it personal.

 

[gashonthenail]

Hey, thats what I love about this place. Differing opinions and tastes make it spicey. I myself have an against the grain choice for my least favourite Moz album...

Your Arsenal. Although I enjoy it as with all of his stuff I've never clicked with it. The producer Mick Ronson's grave is right near my grandparents grave. Eastern Cemetery, Kingston upon Hull. Errr, not that its relevant

Agree with you about differing opinions. It's a shame that diversity of opinion seems to be frowned upon these days...
I love Your Arsenal. Got to be one of my favourite Morrissey albums. Love the stomping glam rock of songs like You're Gonna Need and Glamorous Glue contrasted with the mournful and elegaic yearning of We'll Let You Know. Undoubtedly the preparation for the masterpiece that is Vauxhall.

 

[gashonthenail]

Alsatian Cousin is also a belter. Could one class a dog as a cousin though? I agree they are mans best friend.

If Moz wanted a shag on the desk, it would be in his best interest to keep it from the area manager as most companies have a tidy desk policy.

Leather elbows on a tweed coat - oh - is THAT the best you can do?
Got to be one of the best lyrics ever.
Alsatian Cousin is like a 'Carry On' film, written by someone who is really pissed off and angry. Amazing.
Feeling jilted in love is a bit of a theme on Viva Hate. His way of getting over the breakup of The Smiths?

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

How on earth can MCentral acknowledging creative responses by fans to the music be a problem? At least those fans have made fans over there across the hall

Beautiful job

Some fan videos posted on Central are better than others sure. For me, as long as folks are being creative, that’s all that matters.

But this video is pretty good, nothing wrong with giving credit where credit is due.

Though, I would like a proper video from M again.

 

[Moz Fan]

There's probably a bell curve for how often people have thoughts desiring death, with "just a fleeting thought at difficult times" being the mean. It doesn't mean there won't be some people at the far end. History records many suicides whose final act did not come as a surprise.

Yes, sure.

 

[Moz Fan]

It can also be a calm, thoughtful decision to choose how to end one's life well - as in assisted suicide or euthanasia (literally a 'good death').
The most common cause of suicide, believe it or not, is being in debt. That really is sad - to end your life because of money, or lack of money. But such is the craziness of the world we have created that money seems to be the basis of everything - what we base our happiness on, and what we base our misery on.

Certainly, there are more angles to the subject to be considered.

Nowadays, even children and teens commit suicide for reasons like bullying, crazy games on the internet, physical and sexual abuse, drugs, etc.

Reasons to be cheerful are?

 

[Archangel*]

I feel like this thread needs some moderation since it's on a triggering topic which shouldn't be discussed nonchalantly. though I am in agreement with posters who find Jim Jim Falls a little unnerving, I think artists have the right to express themselves any way they wish, people can skip the song if they wish. It's obviously important to Moz seeing as he performs it live often.

 

[Luxo]

Hey, thats what I love about this place. Differing opinions and tastes make it spicey. I myself have an against the grain choice for my least favourite Moz album...

Your Arsenal. Although I enjoy it as with all of his stuff I've never clicked with it. The producer Mick Ronson's grave is right near my grandparents grave. Eastern Cemetery, Kingston upon Hull. Errr, not that its relevant

NO, Robert. NO. Your Arsenal is his best album. MORRISSEY'S BEST. NO SLANDER AGAINST YOUR ARSENAL.

 

[gashonthenail]

Certainly, there are more angles to the subject to be considered.

Nowadays, even children and teens commit suicide for reasons like bullying, crazy games on the internet, physical and sexual abuse, drugs, etc.

Reasons to be cheerful are?

2 new Morrissey albums in 2023!

 

[Moz Fan]

2 new Morrissey albums in 2023!

 

[Robert Lee]

NO, Robert. NO. Your Arsenal is his best album. MORRISSEY'S BEST. NO SLANDER AGAINST YOUR ARSENAL.

Haha I knew it would not go down well.

 

[goinghome]

Agree.

‘SELF SELF SELF’ as a positive affirmation written on a tambourine back in the day.

"Power is the power to make another suffer. This is an unavoidable corollary to the story-of-self that underlies our civilization: the discrete and separate self in an objective universe. In that universe, for that self, more for me is less for you, by definition. By that axiom, to serve the common good it is necessary to suppress the individual, for the individual is a maximizer of self-interest at the likely expense of everyone else. For the common good, the individual must suffer. Therefore, the power to make someone suffer is also the power to do good. What we call evil rests upon the deep axiom I mentioned before: the Total Depravity of Man, the lordship of the ego.

Let me state the logic in another way. In a world of competing separate selves seeking to maximize rational self-interest, some authority is needed to suppress this interest-seeking for the sake of the common good. The discipline it imposes, whether “party discipline” as in the former communist countries, or religious or ethical discipline, or the discipline of the marketplace in capitalism, is from the individual's point of view a kind of suffering. People must be made to do what they don't want to do, and to refrain from doing what they do want to do. Internalized, it is a war against the self, a fight against desire or pleasure, a battle of biology against will..." - https://charleseisenstein.substack....on_id=427455&post_id=89322864&isFreemail=true