Spiked: "The fire in Morrissey" (December 31, 2022)

The fire in Morrissey now

The fire in Morrissey now

Why the perpetual outsider offends all the right people.

www.spiked-online.com

Hi,being a dinosaur, I can't transfer a article from the Spiked website, if someone can help please. It's a good read.

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Link added and additional note posted by BrummieBoy:

Michael Collins is a writer, journalist and broadcaster. He is the author of The Likes Of Us: A Biography of the White Working Class.

This essay was originally published in Arena HOMME+.

UPDATE Jan. 3:

Link posted on Morrissey Central:

MICHAEL COLLINS. - MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY - MORRISSEY CENTRAL - MICHAEL COLLINS.

MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY on MORRISSEY CENTRAL

www.morrisseycentral.com

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Related item:

• [Morrissey Central] "INTERNATIONAL SHOCK! MORRISSEY APPEARS ON THE COVER OF A MAGAZINE! THE WORLD ENDS, DOMINIONS FALL …" (December 3, 2022)

 

[Malarkey]

Well, my Irish mate wouldn't consider him Irish unless he was born there. "Irish Blood, English Heart".

His parents are Irish. He describes himself as an Irish Catholic. He moved to Dublin in the 90s. He's entitled to an Irish passport. And although racists are slightly too dim to work this out - the Irish blood bit is his ethnic group. The English heart thing is because he thinks immigrants and the children of immigrants can come to love a place that they've moved to - even though there are things in the history of England that upset him because of his Irish heritage (like Cromwell & the Royal Family).

 

[Stephen Hofmann]

OH SHIT!

BINGO!

I got all three! Come quick, check it out, it's true, it's actually, true, Look, Homophobic, Racist.... You're not going to believe this.. xenophobia!

*draws a line*

That's right, TAT! Huh? oh. The Arsehole's Trifecta!

Also my mum loves me, she's part french (sorry!)

You can't help she's French. Someone has to be.

 

[Stephen Hofmann]

His parents are Irish. He describes himself as an Irish Catholic. He moved to Dublin in the 90s. He's entitled to an Irish passport. And although racists are slightly too dim to work this out - the Irish blood bit is his ethnic group. The English heart thing is because he thinks immigrants and the children of immigrants can come to love a place that they've moved to - even though there are things in the history of England that upset him because of his Irish heritage (like Cromwell & the Royal Family).

He's also lived in Rome and LA....If you're defining him by his parents blood, then by that logic, Black British aren't English. You're digging your own left-wing grave.

 

[Malarkey]

He's also lived in Rome and LA....If you're defining him by his parents blood, then by that logic, Black British aren't English. You're digging your own left-wing grave.

He defined himself. So you're saying he's dug his own left-wing grave with his definition of himself.

 

[gashonthenail]

His parents are Irish. He describes himself as an Irish Catholic. He moved to Dublin in the 90s. He's entitled to an Irish passport. And although racists are slightly too dim to work this out - the Irish blood bit is his ethnic group. The English heart thing is because he thinks immigrants and the children of immigrants can come to love a place that they've moved to - even though there are things in the history of England that upset him because of his Irish heritage (like Cromwell & the Royal Family).

There has been migration back and forth between Britain and Ireland for centuries. It was just one country at one point - the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland - so even though the Republic of Ireland is now independent, there are many points of shared culture and history. To compare that fairly minor migration over centuries to what has taken place over just a few decades in Britain and Ireland is not comparing like with like. That song is about culture. And about not being ashamed to be proud of your culture. And believing it is worth defending. For all its faults.

 

[gashonthenail]

I do have to say though - that article went on far too long. Let´s just have some more Morrissey albums completed and released please!

 

[Malarkey]

There has been migration back and forth between Britain and Ireland for centuries. It was just one country at one point - the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland - so even though the Republic of Ireland is now independent, there are many points of shared culture and history. To compare that fairly minor migration over centuries to what has taken place over just a few decades in Britain and Ireland is not comparing like with like. That song is about culture. And about not being ashamed to be proud of your culture. And believing it is worth defending.

The song attacks Cromwell & the Royal Family - two aspects of English history that are at odds with Ireland because the English invaded, colonised & oppressed Ireland.

Morrissey has spoken about how torn it made him feel.

So coopting him for your English/British racist Nationalist politics is wrong & a lie.

 

[Les Tameside]

What do you think his politics are? I've got his book about the working class..it was well reviewed by all the broadsheets at the time and there's very little indication of what his politics are in the piece.

How did you find his book? I found the article quite interesting—and a cut above anything I’ve read on Morrissey for quite some time.

 

[gashonthenail]

All this colonial talk has reminded me of an interesting story in the news this weekend. Barbados may be initiating a reparation claim against the family of Benedict Cumberbatch. So while his ancestors were up to thier necks in the slave trade, Moz´s ancestors were probably being sold as indentured servants in the slave markets of Barbados. Some historical irony there I think - Simpsons speaking.

Benedict Cumberbatch: Barbados may hit star's family with reparation claim over historical links to slave trade

A top official in Barbados does not deny that the Cumberbatch family could face a claim for damages over its historical links to slavery on the island.

news.sky.com

 

[NealCassidy]

Corruption at play here

 

[gashonthenail]

The song attacks Cormwell & the Royal Family - two aspects of English history that are at odds with Ireland because the English invaded, colonised & oppressed Ireland.

Morrissey has spoken about how torn it made him feel.

So coopting him for your English/British racist Nationalist politics is wrong & a lie.

England´s problem is that pretty much since 1066 it has been ruled by a small elite. That´s what the song attacks.
I´m not sure what English/British racist Nationalist agenda you think I´m pushing. I´m Irish. I just don´t think mass immigration is a blessing - that´s all.

 

[goinghome]

The song attacks Cormwell & the Royal Family - two aspects of English history that are at odds with Ireland because the English invaded, colonised & oppressed Ireland.

Morrissey has spoken about how torn it made him feel.

So coopting him for your English/British racist Nationalist politics is wrong & a lie.

To be fair, Malarkey, Morrissey is almost always described in the media as an English singer, and he has often described himself as English. Whether he sees himself as more Irish or English hardly matters for any underlying implications being made by the article, which can be let slide for not saying anything definitely risky, though as usual I'd be inclined to defer to your judgement about such publications and intentions

 

[goinghome]

Corruption at play here

How so?

"You say, "God, spare me this corruptor"
God says, "You don't know how lucky you are"
The paragon knows, the paragon knows..."

Lines from Lover-to-be, but is the word paragon or pentagon, and in either case, what does it mean, please, anyone?

 

[Malarkey]

To be fair, Malarkey, Morrissey is almost always described in the media as an English singer, and he has often described himself as English. Whether he sees himself as more Irish or English hardly matters for any underlying implications being made by the article, which can be let slide for not saying anything definitely risky, though as usual I'd be inclined to defer to your judgement about such publications and intentions

He calls himself Irish Catholic in his autobiography & has talked about growing up in the Irish community & the difficulties between Ireland & England. He was also an Irish Republican.

 

[goinghome]

He calls himself Irish Catholic in his autobiography & has talked about growing up in the Irish community & the difficulties between Ireland & England. He was also an Irish Republican.

That's why the song IBEH is so resonant; both sides robustly co-exist?

 

[gashonthenail]

He defined himself. So you're saying he's dug his own left-wing grave with his definition of himself.

I think he was saying that if you call Moz Irish because his parents were Irish - even though he was born in England - then you´re also saying that someone born in England to Nigerian parents, for example, would be Nigerian, not English. Hence - digging your own grave.
To be honest, I imagine Moz would first and foremost describe himself as a human being, and a man of the world, before anything else. And good for him. Or maybe even ´not a man´ of the world.

 

[Malarkey]

England´s problem is that pretty much since 1066 it has been ruled by a small elite. That´s what the song attacks.
I´m not sure what English/British racist Nationalist agenda you think I´m pushing. I´m Irish. I just don´t think mass immigration is a blessing - that´s all.

Cromwell & the British monarchy are villains in Irish history.

You're not subtle Gash.

(Edit - I hate Cromwell so much I can't spell his name. )

 

[Dirk Blaggard]

What do you think his politics are? I've got his book about the working class..it was well reviewed by all the br

It's not the same as yours I know that much, mate
He is pro-British culture but he is pro the culture of a lot of countries. Hes international. Which is why he lived in Italy and America and likes Mexico. He likes countries to keep their identity. My current wife is black and she met him when she used to work for a record label and she in no way got the racist vibe. Remember I've been a fan since the first Smith's LP and went to gigs when there were only 20 people in the room. I have met M a load of times, Im not his friend but I have spoken to him enough to know he ain't a racist and he has a bit more about him than your average tory boy . He was not a tory boy in the Smiths, the 90s or up to 2015. I haven't spoken to him in the last 7 years but I do not think he would be one now.
He is also pro-black power , anti-monarchy, anti thatcher and Blair, pro gay rights (when all the tories weren't) . He also said he admired Jeremy Corbyn at one point.
So no mate, he is nothing like you

 

[A Man Escaped]

" My current wife is black..."

Happy new year Mrs Blaggard!

 

[Malarkey]

I think he was saying that if you call Moz Irish because his parents were Irish - even though he was born in England - then you´re also saying that someone born in England to Nigerian parents, for example, would be Nigerian, not English. Hence - digging your own grave.
To be honest, I imagine Moz would first and foremost describe himself as a human being, and a man of the world, before anything else. And good for him.

No Gash - because it's only ethno nationalists like yourself that think there's a problem with someone being English by birth & Nigerian by heritage.

… my sister and I growing up, never really felt we were Mancunians. My Irishness was never something I hid or camouflaged. I grew up in a strong Irish community. Of course, early on I’d be teased about it, I was called `Paddy’ from an early age… this was back in the 1960s when it was a bitter and malevolent slur. But that’s how Manchester people are – they’re extremely critical of everything and everybody… I used to come back to Dublin… the people seemed happier and more carefree and Crumlin seemed so open – certainly more so than the confines of Hulme. We were quite happy to ghettoise ourselves as the Irish community in Manchester, the Irish stuck rigidly together. (Morrissey, Irish Times, 20 November 1999) https://www.irishtimes.com/news/paddy-english-man-part-1-1.252576