Morrissey Central "OPEN LETTER TO JOHNNY MARR." (January 25, 2022)

This is not a rant or an hysterical bombast. It is a polite and calmly measured request: Would you please stop mentioning my name in your interviews?

Would you please, instead, discuss your own career, your own unstoppable solo achievements and your own music?

If you can, would you please just leave me out of it?

The fact is: you don’t know me. You know nothing of my life, my intentions, my thoughts, my feelings. Yet you talk as if you were my personal psychiatrist with consistent and uninterrupted access to my instincts. We haven’t known each other for 35 years - which is many lifetimes ago. When we met you and I were not successful. We both helped each other become whatever it is we are today. Can you not just leave it at that? Must you persistently, year after year, decade after decade, blame me for everything … from the 2007 Solomon Islands tsunami to the dribble on your grandma’s chin ?

You found me inspirational enough to make music with me for 6 years. If I was, as you claim, such an eyesore monster, where exactly did this leave you? Kidnapped? Mute? Chained? Abducted by cross-eyed extraterrestrials? It was YOU who played guitar on ‘Golden Lights’ - not me.

Yes, we all know that the British press will print anything you say about me as long as it’s cruel and savage. But you’ve done all that. Move on. It’s as if you can’t uncross your own legs without mentioning me. Our period together was many lifetimes ago, and a lot of blood has streamed under the bridge since then. There comes a time when you must take responsibility for your own actions and your own career, with which I wish you good health to enjoy. Just stop using my name as click-bait. I have not ever attacked your solo work or your solo life, and I have openly applauded your genius during the days of ‘Louder than bombs’ and ‘Strangeways, here we come’, yet you have positioned yourself ever-ready as rent-a-quote whenever the press require an ugly slant on something I half-said during the last glacial period as the Colorado River began to carve out the Grand Canyon. Please stop. It is 2022, not 1982.

Morrissey. January 2022.

OPEN LETTER TO JOHNNY MARR. - MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY - MORRISSEY CENTRAL - OPEN LETTER TO JOHNNY MARR.

MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY

www.morrisseycentral.com

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Marr, January 26th:


Some related posts moved to this thread: Johnny Marr responds to Morrissey's open letter via Twitter (January 26, 2022)

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Related item:

• Express: "The Smiths split ‘bruised me emotionally, it turned to s*** with Morrissey’ – Johnny Marr" via Uncut Magazine - January 13, 2022

Media items:

• BBC: Morrissey calls on Johnny Marr to 'stop using my name as clickbait' - January 26, 2022
• Daily Mail: There is a fight that never goes out: Morrissey accuses Johnny Marr of 'using my name as click bait' and insists The Smiths bandmate 'knows nothing of my life' in scathing letter - January 26, 2022
• Far Out: Morrissey pens scathing open letter to Johnny Marr: "You don't know me" - January 25, 2022
• Fiona Dodwell: "From Morrissey to Marr: Why THAT Open Letter Was a Long Time Coming" (January 26, 2022)
• Guardian: ‘You don’t know me’: Morrissey accuses Johnny Marr of using him for clickbait - January 26, 2022
• Independent: ‘Move on’: Morrissey tells Johnny Marr to stop talking about him in interviews - January 26, 2022
• MEN: 'Move on. It's as if you can’t uncross your own legs without mentioning me': Morrissey tells Johnny Marr to stop talking about him - January 26, 2022
• NME: Morrissey asks Johnny Marr to stop mentioning him in interviews - January 25, 2022
• Rolling Stone: Still Ill: Morrissey Really Wants Johnny Marr to Stop Talking About Him - January 26, 2022
• Stereogum: Morrissey To Johnny Marr: Keep My Name Out Of Your Mouth - January 25, 2022
• The Telegraph: Why Morrissey and Johnny Marr hate each other (paywalll) - January 27, 2022 (transcript at Yahoo!)

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Just a guess - reunion's off
FWD.

 

[Deleted member 29417]

There's a saying that no publicity is bad publicity and it's interesting that on last Fridays Vinyl chart both Morrissey/Bowie and Johnny had singles that re entered the chart.

Last weeks Vinyl chart includes Everyday is Like Sunday by Rhoda Dakar, Cosmic Dancer by Morrissey/Bowie, Spirit Power and Sou by Johnny Marr and Lightning People by Johnny Marr. Added to that the Morrissey and Marr singles all topped that chart at some point.

I only got my copy of Everyday Is Sunday the other week, after months of email updates about the world vinyl shortage.

 

[catsarecats]

The folks here who keep asking ‘what has Johnny said?’ won’t find anything truly cruel or heinous – he certainly hasn’t depicted Morrissey an ‘eyesore monster’ – but there are lots of little digs and very petty things over the years, which M will have noticed. Here’s just a few:

• Split happened because he was ‘stuck with a load of ideas and nowhere to play them’ (2007)
• Wins an award and thanks Joe Moss, Kirsty, Matt Johnson, Bernard Sumner “and whoever else”, to sniggering (2007)
• Claims to be too busy to read Autobio (2014)
• (Unbelievably) says he & Moz weren’t friends by the end of the Smiths and that ‘what he does, says or sings doesn’t interest me.’ (2018)
• Thanks Matt Johnson and Bernard Sumner first before “all the guys in the Smiths” at an award ceremony (2018)
• Doesn’t defend M from the insinuation that he’s ruining the Smiths legacy and says ‘it has nothing to do with my world and my life’ (2019)
• Stupid Nigel Farage comment (2019)
• Answers a question about ‘assembling a supergroup’ – puts both Isaac Brock and Matt Johnson on lead vocals, then calls it the ‘I Told You I Was Right’ tour (2019)
• Kicks “one certain member of the group” for being obsessed with media notoriety (2021)
• Modest Mouse was “the best time of my life” (2021)
• Isaac Brock is the ‘best lyricist I’ve ever worked with’ (2021)
• As you can see from the Glasto video above, he sings "Now I know how Johnny Marr felt" in Bigmouth - obviously implying that he was long-suffering in the Smiths

I believe a lot of JM’s comments are cherry-picked and it’s true that, in amongst this petty stuff, he has been genuinely kind about Morrissey many times - notably at the Oxford Union talk. It’s still there though, and some of these comments were absolutely needless.

I’ve even seen it myself. The second time I saw Johnny live (2019), he said from the stage, after playing tons of Smiths songs, “Thank God the other one isn’t here" - and the room cheered. Just why? It’s not too hard to see why Moz would be hurt. Someone he loved and praised to the ends of the earth repeatedly thanks others before him, makes silly digs just to make strangers laugh, allows his son to make all manner of offensive 'shitposts' - it's not dignified.

Exactly
Marr seems so petty and it seems he is the first that can't let it go despite the fact that he is the one that ended the Smiths.
I also suspect he is incredibly envious of Morrissey career after the Smiths
Just look at how his son Nile is obsessed with Morrissey, it's not normal, Nile probably was fed with his parents hate toward M all his life .

 

[Vegan Cro Spirit .777]

OI now I know how LePepe felt
does he have any self respect at all?

the whole world revolves around the , make the poor churl happy. make pretend he is Papa Charlie Jackson inventor of suco music
and out of tune

well then go on and make that supergroup with those twats. be my guest. lets see you parade yourself onstage like a with those 2 bothsoons lets see how many seconds it lasts before each grab you by a chopstick and toss you

 

[Anonymous]

Exactly
Marr seems so petty and it seems he is the first that can't let it go despite the fact that he is the one that ended the Smiths.
I also suspect he is incredibly envious of Morrissey career after the Smiths
Just look at how his son Nile is obsessed with Morrissey, it's not normal, Nile probably was fed with his parents hate toward M all his life .

Funny, as it’s Morrissey with this letter who cannot let Johnny and the Smiths go. Johnny can talk about the Smiths with objectivity and pride. Moz is obviously still wounded from Johnny leaving.

 

[Anonymous]

I also suspect he is incredibly envious of Morrissey career after the Smiths

I think back in 1987 he possibly felt, or had been told, that Morrissey would soon be 'past it', and that he (Marr) should move on before The Smiths fell out of fashion with the critics and their (at the time) predominantly indie/university audiences. And in fact he would have been right. The acid/house/rave scene was just over the horizon, and it was the way of pop music anyway, every four years or so a new movement, a new 'generation' of teenagers, it wasn't hard to predict. But there warning signs in the The Smiths records themselves, in my opinion. There had been a few dud singles (Shakespeare's Sister, Sheila Take a Bow), and about half of 'Strangeways' sounds like Morrissey on autopilot, slipping into self-parody and becoming a caricature.

Ironically, I think it was Marr's departure that really shook Morrissey up and pushed him to force himself out of the lyrical complacency and creative rut he was falling in to. And from there, he never looked back. Marr, on the other hand, had probably hoped for, and was being told he could have, a stellar career, but 35 years on and it's obvious he's never worked with any lyricist/vocalist who comes within light years of Morrissey's talent - Marr himself being the worst of the lot.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

I don’t care either way. I’m happy with the few Smiths songs he chucks into his solo shows. Hell, he’s even done I Keep Mine Hidden for us. All we’re owed is Well I Wonder.

I want Jeane!

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Funny, as it’s Morrissey with this letter who cannot let Johnny and the Smiths go.

Lol. He’s actually encouraging Marr
to move on and focus on his solo work, that Marr’s solo music should be enough for publicity, and not Morrissey’s name.

Johnny can talk about the Smiths with objectivity and pride

From the letter, it seems Morrissey’s fine with that.

. Moz is obviously still wounded from Johnny leaving.

They’re ALL wounded, even Johnny.


Hey, maybe they should have gone with the choice of The Walking Wounded instead of The Smiths!

 

[Vegan Cro Spirit .888]

Funny, as it’s Morrissey with this letter who cannot let Johnny and the Smiths go. Johnny can talk about the Smiths with objectivity and pride. Moz is obviously still wounded from Johnny leaving.

you have to switch the Little LePep off.
you have to torch him off you. he got nothing going
why not sing the Mouse/The The suco songs he wrote? they are such wonderful songwriters why sing the Moz lyrics?
he wrote 0 Smiths lyrics

 

[SuedeMoz]

I think back in 1987 he possibly felt, or had been told, that Morrissey would soon be 'past it', and that he (Marr) should move on before The Smiths fell out of fashion with the critics and their (at the time) predominantly indie/university audiences. And in fact he would have been right. The acid/house/rave scene was just over the horizon, and it was the way of pop music anyway, every four years or so a new movement, a new 'generation' of teenagers, it wasn't hard to predict. But there warning signs in the The Smiths records themselves, in my opinion. There had been a few dud singles (Shakespeare's Sister, Sheila Take a Bow), and about half of 'Strangeways' sounds like Morrissey on autopilot, slipping into self-parody and becoming a caricature.

Ironically, I think it was Marr's departure that really shook Morrissey up and pushed him to force himself out of the lyrical complacency and creative rut he was falling in to. And from there, he never looked back. Marr, on the other hand, had probably hoped for, and was being told he could have, a stellar career, but 35 years on and it's obvious he's never worked with any lyricist/vocalist who comes within light years of Morrissey's talent - Marr himself being the worst of the lot.

Interesting points. I agree with your take on Strangeways... I like it but would never rank it above TQID. Especially when we get to the B-sides it's pretty clear that the creative well was running dry. I also think a much-needed break for everyone probably could have fixed that and perhaps allowed the band to continue on a bit longer.

Regarding your last point... in fairness can't we say the reverse is true as well? Morrissey has not worked with anyone who surpasses Marr's talent? Before everyone jumps down my throat... sure, I think he came close with Street and some of the early solo work. While his solo career has absolutely had high points... it hasn't had the consistency of stellar output that The Smiths had.

Again, before I get a bunch of hate replies... I'm not comparing Morrissey solo vs Marr solo... I'm comparing Morrissey solo to The Smiths.

 

[Amy]

Exactly
Marr seems so petty and it seems he is the first that can't let it go despite the fact that he is the one that ended the Smiths.
I also suspect he is incredibly envious of Morrissey career after the Smiths
Just look at how his son Nile is obsessed with Morrissey, it's not normal, Nile probably was fed with his parents hate toward M all his life .

This might be a bit "out there" but I think Nile is jealous of The Smiths success & the fact that he will never live up to it, despite JM trying hard to give him a headstart.

He's a frustrated musician who has to live in the shadow of his father. Obviously he can't take that frustration out on his Dad... so where to direct it? At the other bloke, from behind a screen. Nile is the one using M as clickbait, not Johnny.

 

[Anonymous]

I feel it’s a little much to call Morrissey’s open letter an ‘attack’.

Seems more like Morrissey tried to ignore it for years, and it just reached a boiling point for him, and just had to tell Marr how he’s been feeling about it, and how it could be remedied.

oh poor dear.

Sticks and stones....

When Morrissey says things and people speak out against what he says people on here condemn the cancel culture or trying to cancel his views but when JM speaks his mind when asked about something by a journalist in an interview he is considered unacceptable.

He can say what he wants now or in 30yrs time. Why should he be silenced or be told to be silent by Morrissey or anyone?

 

[Dingoatemybabby]

Swift vs Albarn, Morrissey vs Marr and Young vs Spotify: dissecting pop’s Beef Week

Round one! Ding-ding! Last week was huge for musical rows; our columnist sorts through the fisticuffs and tries to make sense of it all

www.nme.com

This NME article by Mark Beaumont I think hits the nail on the head. Moz should have directed his "hysterical bombast" at the press, not Johnny:

First: Morrissey’s open letter to Johnny Marr, the most ridiculous of the week’s spats. In a post on Morrissey Central directed at his former bandmate, Morrissey requested that Marr “stop using my name as click-bait”, as though he was less guitar hero plugging a new album, more Daily Mail Sidebar Of Shame. “Yes, we all know that the British press will print anything you say about me as long as it’s cruel and savage,” he wrote. “But you’ve done all that. Move on… The fact is: you don’t know me.”

Morrissey has, of course, struck on the flaw in his own argument here. Having interviewed Johnny, I can attest that he doesn’t habitually burst into the press chamber bellowing disparaging thoughts on his ex-bandmate’s latest outbursts like a veggie-hating Brian Blessed. He tends to skirt around the topic if he can. But crucially, since he’s not in the habit of interviewing himself, he is resigned to the fact that every hack he so much as glances at askance is going to ask him about Morrissey’s latest controversial comment, with a query on the likelihood of a Smiths reunion tacked on as a supplementary.

The reasons for this are twofold. One: Smiths fans, numerous and devoted, really want to know what Johnny Marr thinks of Morrissey’s opinions. Two: If The Smiths ever do reform and you’re the journalist who interviewed Johnny Marr 10 minutes earlier and didn’t ask about it, you’ll be out on your arse faster than the Downing Street cheese arranger.

The takeaway here is: ‘Blame the game, not the player’.

 

[Bizarro]

Funny, as it’s Morrissey with this letter who cannot let Johnny and the Smiths go. Johnny can talk about the Smiths with objectivity and pride. Moz is obviously still wounded from Johnny leaving.

ONE letter in 30 odd years is hardly not letting go... enough was enough of the snidey remarks since The Smiths split.
But as usual, with baiters like you it's Morrissey that gets booted in the balls for having the temerity of eventually responding.
Anyway, why do you bother... ? You probably do not like The Smiths, Morrissey or Johnny Marr for that matter.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

...

Swift vs Albarn, Morrissey vs Marr and Young vs Spotify: dissecting pop’s Beef Week

Round one! Ding-ding! Last week was huge for musical rows; our columnist sorts through the fisticuffs and tries to make sense of it all

www.nme.com

This NME article by Mark Beaumont I think hits the nail on the head. Moz should have directed his "hysterical bombast" at the press, not Johnny:

First: Morrissey’s open letter to Johnny Marr, the most ridiculous of the week’s spats. In a post on Morrissey Central directed at his former bandmate, Morrissey requested that Marr “stop using my name as click-bait”, as though he was less guitar hero plugging a new album, more Daily Mail Sidebar Of Shame. “Yes, we all know that the British press will print anything you say about me as long as it’s cruel and savage,” he wrote. “But you’ve done all that. Move on… The fact is: you don’t know me.”

Morrissey has, of course, struck on the flaw in his own argument here. Having interviewed Johnny, I can attest that he doesn’t habitually burst into the press chamber bellowing disparaging thoughts on his ex-bandmate’s latest outbursts like a veggie-hating Brian Blessed. He tends to skirt around the topic if he can. But crucially, since he’s not in the habit of interviewing himself, he is resigned to the fact that every hack he so much as glances at askance is going to ask him about Morrissey’s latest controversial comment, with a query on the likelihood of a Smiths reunion tacked on as a supplementary.

The reasons for this are twofold. One: Smiths fans, numerous and devoted, really want to know what Johnny Marr thinks of Morrissey’s opinions. Two: If The Smiths ever do reform and you’re the journalist who interviewed Johnny Marr 10 minutes earlier and didn’t ask about it, you’ll be out on your arse faster than the Downing Street cheese arranger.

The takeaway here is: ‘Blame the game, not the player’.

Yes, but no need for the player (Marr) to give them (media) the ball (Morrissey comments) to play and ‘win’ with.


If they don’t have the Morrissey comments then they can’t play their game of turning it into clickbait.

Why is this so difficult for you to understand.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

This might be a bit "out there" but I think Nile is jealous of The Smiths success & the fact that he will never live up to it, despite JM trying hard to give him a headstart.

He's a frustrated musician who has to live in the shadow of his father. Obviously he can't take that frustration out on his Dad... so where to direct it? At the other bloke, from behind a screen.

Agree, about living in the shadow. Unfortunately he doesn’t have the
talent. I’m not a fan of Julian Lennon, but at least he was talented enough to pull off some half decent
pop songs to win himself a little dignity.

Nile is the one using M as clickbait, not Johnny.

Maybe not consciously, or he can’t
accept that one of the reasons he even gets asked to do interviews is in hope by the publication that he’ll
give them something on Morrissey, inadvertently or not.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, but no need for the player (Marr) to give them (media) the ball (Morrissey comments) to play and ‘win’ with.

Why should he refuse to any reasonable questions from journalists? Moz is apparently so paranoid about Johnny that - according to several posters here - even failing to mention him is seen as some kind of public attack - eg naming Isaac Brock as the greatest lyricist he's ever worked with. That opinion may seem like lunacy to most of us, but if that's Johnny's personal opinion - so what? Who gives a toss? Is he supposed to lie and say "Morrissey was the bestest at everything?"

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Why should he refuse to any reasonable questions from journalists?

That depends on how Morrissey would define the words ‘reasonable questions’. I mean, what was Morrissey asking Marr in the open letter?

Moz is apparently so paranoid about Johnny that - according to several posters here - even failing to mention him is seen as some kind of public attack - eg naming Isaac Brock as the greatest lyricist he's ever worked with.

everyone knew what Johnny was getting at with that comment, many media sites ran with it, clickbait gold!

That opinion may seem like lunacy to most of us, but if that's Johnny's personal opinion - so what?

We’d have to ask Morrissey how he felt about it. btw, did you read the open letter?

Who gives a toss?

If you read the open letter, it seems Morrissey does.

Is he supposed to lie and say "Morrissey was the bestest at everything?"

Would that be a ‘lie’ though?

 

[DaveJCarr]

I don't really get the why people are so bent out of shape about Nile. Much like people asking Moz/Marr about each other and The Smiths, people are constantly bombarding him with questions about The Smiths, his Dad and Morissey. And he usually responds with a cheecky meme referencing Hendrix, or something, Dude doesn't likr the Smiths and doesn't like Moz- and will occasionally voice that, or acknowledge another flare up in acrimony/press. But he usually keeps things focused on his music and whatever interests him.

Surely, he's sllowed not to like Morissey and express that even if shitposting is his way of going about it

 

[Anonymous]

Regarding your last point... in fairness can't we say the reverse is true as well? Morrissey has not worked with anyone who surpasses Marr's talent? ... While his solo career has absolutely had high points... it hasn't had the consistency of stellar output that The Smiths had.

This is true, but I think the crucial difference here is that Morrissey doesn't need great music to create songs. Take a song like 'Boxers' for example. Great song, but is it great music? Not really. And yes, his solo career hasn't had the consistency of The Smiths, but then The Smiths only last about 5 years, whereas his solo career is now 35 years old. While everyone will disagree on what are his solo highpoints, I think most fans would probably feel they could collate a substantial body of Morrissey solo songs that are as good as the best of The Smiths - not as musically distinctive, but still as good.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

This is true, but I think the crucial difference here is that Morrissey doesn't need great music to create songs. Take a song like 'Boxers' for example. Great song, but is it great music? Not really. And yes, his solo career hasn't had the consistency of The Smiths, but then The Smiths only last about 5 years, whereas his solo career is now 35 years old. While everyone will disagree on what are his solo highpoints, I think most fans would probably feel they could collate a substantial body of Morrissey solo songs that are as good as the best of The Smiths - not as musically distinctive, but still as good.

great points.