Morrissey’s view on gender identity

[goinghome]

Incorrect. Morrissey said she was banned for being too intelligent and 'speaking common sense'. That's not a neutral comment.

Yes, he clearly does feel an affinity with her, in certain respects, and likes her eccentricities and stamina

Conservative pressure group, the ADF, overturned Roe & is now going after pro LGBTQ+ legislation.

The Next Targets for the Group That Overturned Roe

Alliance Defending Freedom has won fifteen Supreme Court cases. Now it wants religious exemptions to anti-discrimination laws—and is going after trans rights.

www.newyorker.com

ADF: Alliance Defending Freedom?! Too much!

We have to realise that these are extreme cases, and that most trans people are not predatory. These cross dressing predators do not have an issue with their body parts, they have a problem with their sexuality.

Also, there was a recent case where the BBC did refuse to call a 'predatory women' a women, instead they called them a man, he was only crossdressing to manipulate children/girls and was jailed. He didn't have an issue with his gender but his sexuality is obviously warped and ill.

We should have patience for people who are genuinally not the sex they were born, some people it is obvious. Some people copy other people because they don't know who they are, which is not a problem with their gender, its a exisitential problem or a weak upbringing.

Morrissey is voicing his support for Greer, and is not taking sides, hope not anyway. I have no idea what the state of affairs are in the US, prehaps its more tribal and people are more divided or black and white about things.

Very difficult issues arising from transitioning sensitively approached in this short film about Muslim parents having to deal with the dead body of their trans adult child returned to them

 

[Anonymous]

Or does it get reported because that’s what keeps their viewership up? So when there is no rape, etc does it get reported? Sounds silly, I know. And does it get reported when trans women use a woman’s restroom, etc without any problems at all, does this ever get reported?

It’s time we try correcting a culture/society that creates rapists/criminals in the first place. They just don’t appear out of thin air.

That was a good comment you made, they don't just develop out of thin air and the news probally use these kind of stories because people find it morbidly interesting or they want to get angry at something. ( 'everyone needs someone to hate'.)

I think not allowing people to get away with rape or antisocial behaviour is best way to correct culture/society at the moment, its the easiest, I feel that people can shame and judge people into better behaviour.

 

[Anonymous]

Porn addled incels and pervs.

Yes thats what they are, and not reflective of a whole community.

I don't think many people want to open the doors and welcome anyone into private/secluded spaces. In the boys changing rooms at school it was hell. I got beaten up and picked on for 'my size' and I would of prefered a private space to get changed if there was an option, I think mixed spaces are on there way out.

 

[Malarkey]

I have a lot of trans friends & a lot of GC friends - quite a few of them are batshit online & completely fine in real life.

Some physcial facts are unavoidable - how far the state has to police it & how it's policed - is the issue. People panicked about feminism, they panicked about Gay Rights & now they're using both of those things to panic about Trans Rights AND re-panic about Feminism & Gay Rights - which is giving the hard/far/crank right wedge issues to exploit - doing no one any good unless they want to be a trad/trap wife married to a white supremacist podcaster.

 

[TheSmiths_1985]

I have a lot of trans friends & a lot of GC friends.

Poor bastards.

 

[goinghome]

Some physcial facts are unavoidable - how far the state has to police it & how it's policed - is the issue. People panicked about feminism, they panicked about Gay Rights & now they're using both of those things to panic about Trans Rights AND re-panic about Feminism & Gay Rights - which is giving the hard/far/crank right wedge issues to exploit -

Intersex people are born with variations of sex characteristics (such as genitals, reproductive organs, hormonal and chromosomal patterns) that are more diverse than stereotypical definitions of male or female bodies. Up to 1.7% of the global population is born with such traits; yet, because their bodies are seen as different, intersex children and adults are often stigmatized and subject to harmful practices – including in medical settings – and discriminated against.

ILGA is a worldwide federation of 1919 member organisations from 169 countries campaigning for lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans and intersex rights, since 1978, A large majority of UN member States have yet to make any sufficient legal attempt to protect intersex people’s right to bodily integrity and autonomy.

The organization released the first edition of its Intersex Legal Mapping Report, a ground-breaking global survey on legal protections for people born with variations in sex characteristics. The publication features an overview of how each of the 193 UN member States is faring regarding the protection of the human rights of intersex people, profiles of the 34 countries in which legal developments have taken place, and an analysis of how intersex issues have been addressed in international human rights law. In addition, it also features interviews with intersex activists, providing unique insights into their advocacy work...

- https://www.pressenza.com/2023/12/i...-born-with-variations-in-sex-characteristics/

The situation is animated and evolving

 

[Lionel Cliffhanger]

Yes thats what they are, and not reflective of a whole community.

I don't think many people want to open the doors and welcome anyone into private/secluded spaces. In the boys changing rooms at school it was hell. I got beaten up and picked on for 'my size' and I would of prefered a private space to get changed if there was an option, I think mixed spaces are on there way out.

The problem is, certainly in the U.K. there ARE communal sex based changing rooms, (we can’t just wish them away), and there are people actively supporting males that identify as women or as non-binary, to have access to women’s areas.

While many trans people are not degenerative perverts, how can we keep out the ones that are? Indeed, how can we keep out pervy men that are not even trans eg the Wi Spa incident.

I might add that I think it is incumbent on men to welcome transwomen into their spaces (I have no issue with transmen or transwomen using male changing rooms/ toilets).

One solution should be an all gender changing room/ toilet and a female changing room/toilet. But of course that will not be acceptable to many transwomen as it does not centre then as women - and that is what much of what this is about: male entitlement taking precedence over women’s safety/privacy. Exactly the same as the issues we have in sport I might add…

 

[Malarkey]

The situation is animated and evolving

I ended up friends with Alice Dreger because she loves rats - the adorable animal kind - & she has been through the mill over this. I don't think there's a faction that hasn't treated her badly.

 

[James brown]

He said he was a fourth gender.

He has more in common with trans people than gender criticals - but I doubt he'd like all the yelling on social media.

MORRISSEY: "YOUR REAL HOME IS YOUR BODY – NOT YOUR HOUSE OR YOUR APARTMENT!"

28.11.2014 It is a pleasure for me to interview the one and only Morrissey for the third time . This time, I conducted this interview f...

www.veganlogic.net

He was taking the pee . He said that as a joke on a British show at age 23 or whatever. He is quite obviously a pretty heterosexual bi . His view is women are women and men are not . He has said it .

 

[Malarkey]

He was taking the pee . He said that as a joke on a British show at age 23 or whatever. He is quite obviously a pretty heterosexual bi . His view is women are women and men are not . He has said it .

No, he didn't. He said it to a few papers/magazines - including Square Peg which only interviewed gay people.

I think he probably is more attracted to men than women. But I don't care.

He's always talked about his gender problems. I think the 2nd wave helped him accept the body he had. Which is the best outcome, but not possible for everyone.

In the current discourse the position on sex is that while it doesn't change, a person's inner or social gender identity can. It can also be physically hard to tell because of intersex conditions or blockers/hormones/surgery. Some people with dysphoria/euphoria refuse to acknowledge their sex, like an actor who can't say their age. Rules, laws, protocols & etiquette are a mess.

 

[TheSmiths_1985]

But I don't care.

You do. Far too much.

 

[TheSmiths_1985]

Rules, laws, protocols & etiquette are a mess.

Not really. 99% of people seem to manage ok with them. Could it be that you’re the mess?

 

[goinghome]

I ended up friends with Alice Dreger because she loves rats - the adorable animal kind - & she has been through the mill over this. I don't think there's a faction that hasn't treated her badly.

From Alice Dreger's website

My research, writing, and speaking on sex and gender issues started with my Ph.D. dissertation work on the history of what happened to people with intersex conditions in the nineteenth and early-twentieth centuries. (During that period, these people were labeled “hermaphrodites.”) The medical and social systems that deal with intersex – the systems on which a lot of my work has focused – also deal to a large extent with people who are or might be transgender, and as a result, I’ve been interested in the social and medical (mis)treatment of people who are transgender.

Sometimes people confront me with hateful things I have supposedly said about transgender people – things I’ve never said. There are some fake posts out there that have my byline and even my photo but have text that is not mine – in some cases, really disgusting text. That is frustrating, but I’ve learned I can’t spend my whole life trying to stop false representations of me.

What I can do here is to point you to my actual work. Here are some examples:

• “Really Changing Sex”: a 2006 post for the Hastings Center, arguing that doctors should not be the people in charge of saying who is what gender – that people should be allowed to decide that for themselves.
• Sport in Transition: Making Sport in Canada Responsible for Gender Inclusivity: a 2012 white paper I co-edited, pushing for inclusivity of trans athletes in sports. (I’ve also published four essays in the New York Times Sports section, arguing for allowing women with intersex conditions to compete as women without medical coercion.)
• “Gender Identity Disorder in Childhood: Inconclusive Advice to Parents”: a 2012 essay I wrote for the Hastings Center Report looking at some of the knowns and unknowns in terms of the evidence (including that childhood gender dysphoria that continues into adolescence is unlikely to disappear), counseling parents about how to put their children’s interests before their own. (Contact me if you’re not at an academic institution with a subscription and would like a copy.)
• Implementing Curricular and Institutional Climate Changes to Improve Health Care for Individuals Who Are LGBT, Gender Nonconforming, or Born with DSD: A Resource for Medical Educators: a 2014 volume I co-edited with Andrew D. Hollenbach and Kristin L. Eckstrand for the American Association of Medical Colleges (AAMC) aimed at teaching future doctors to treat patients from sex and gender minority populations much better than many of their predecessors treated these populations.

My work on trans issues – Alice Dreger

Enlightening. I will listen to her podcast arguing on behalf of trans women - https://www.heterodorx.com/podcast/episode-40-alice-dregers-middle-finger/

In research about high levels of suicide in America, intersex discrimination is cited as germane.

I’ve really shifted to thinking about the inequalities that exist. The biggest inequalities in terms of prevalence are for LGBTQ+ and low-income students—those students are significantly more likely to screen positive for a mental health problem. And that is not because of something related to their individual identities, it’s because of experiences of discrimination, exclusion, financial stress, things that are mutable at a system level.

What's hopeful here is the shift from individual to systemic inquiry.

 

[Malarkey]

From Alice Dreger's website

My work on trans issues – Alice Dreger

Enlightening. I will listen to her podcast arguing on behalf of trans women - https://www.heterodorx.com/podcast/episode-40-alice-dregers-middle-finger/

In research about high levels of suicide in America, intersex discrimination is cited as germane.


What's hopeful here is the shift from individual to systemic inquiry.

From what I know, she's good at keeping an open mind under extreme pressure.

I think Elevatorgate in 2011 is the point at which online discourse became a blood sport - with jobs & friendships being lost & people pinging back & forth between warring tribes.

You could look into the SWERF/James Cantor drama if you want to lose the will to live/use it for some nefarious purposes etc.

 

[Uncleskinny]

From Alice Dreger's website

My work on trans issues – Alice Dreger

Enlightening. I will listen to her podcast arguing on behalf of trans women - https://www.heterodorx.com/podcast/episode-40-alice-dregers-middle-finger/

In research about high levels of suicide in America, intersex discrimination is cited as germane.


What's hopeful here is the shift from individual to systemic inquiry.

Trans women are MEN, and they belong nowhere near women's safe spaces, changing rooms, sports. Women are the losers when any man says he's a woman.

 

[TheSmiths_1985]

Trans women are MEN, and they belong nowhere near women's safe spaces, changing rooms, sports. Women are the losers when any man says he's a woman.

 

[Vesper Nocturne]

… what this is about: male entitlement taking precedence over women’s safety/privacy. …

You can all argue about this for another 300 pages. There is nothing but this.

 

[Anonymous]

You can all argue about this for another 300 pages. There is nothing but this.

Do you have proof other than directions to online media and internet sources? If you do please share

Trans women are MEN, and they belong nowhere near women's safe spaces, changing rooms, sports. Women are the losers when any man says he's a woman.

nothing is black-and-white

 

[Uncleskinny]

Do you have proof other than directions to online media and internet sources? If you do please share


nothing is black-and-white

The safety, dignity, and hard-fought-for rights of women in society in general and sport is a black-and-white, non-negotiable for me. When a man can declare himself a woman, the only losers are women. That is pretty stark, spiky, and non-nebulous.

 

[Orange Crush]

nothing is black-and-white

My tv is.