Independent.ie: Lloyd Cole Interview - with Morrissey anecdotes (July 2, 2023)

Lloyd Cole interview Sunday Independent (Ireland) 2nd July - Morrissey references

Morrissey became a fan. He said Cole was the sort of person who gets "erotic about blotting paper". To which Cole replied: "I do. I am a real stationery fetishist."
When Lloyd Cole and the Commotions played their first gig in London at the Dominion Theatre, they came offstage and went to their dressing room to find Morrissey "drinking a cup of tea. We were friends for a few years." Does he despair for his old friend's right-wing politics now? "Oh, I couldn't possibly be friends with Morrissey now. But that's the lovely thing about art, those Smiths records and those Morrissey records are yours now. You can remove the author. In fact, the author is necessarily removed when the record is released."
In 1985, he and Morrissey met up a few times. "We had tea at Fortnum & Mason. That was his idea. We would play each other songs that we were working on. I got to hear 'Meat is Murder' before it came out."
Was that a bit like Alan Bennett and Dennis Potter having lunch together?"It absolutely wasn't," he says with a laugh, "because we were both still young and immature and still finding our way, in terms of finding our voices.
"I think Morrissey probably found his voice on The Queen is Dead and I found mine on my first solo record. I think I was trying to be less worthy from Rattlesnakes onwards. I love Rattlesnakes to death but it is hard for me to listen to the singing now. I don't en- joy the sound of my voice on that record. It's overly mannered.

https://archive.is/pVhnY

 

[CrazyFaceGenes]

Skeptism isn't a very healthy mindset, I prefer reason and understanding. There was plenty wrong with the response to COVID but I understand some of the theatre(cloth masks etc) was needed as it was a genuine crisis, especially at first.

 

[gashonthenail]

Skeptism isn't a very healthy mindset, I prefer reason and understanding. There was plenty wrong with the response to COVID but I understand some of the theatre(cloth masks etc) was needed as it was a genuine crisis, especially at first.

Doubting the truth of what we are told sounds to me like a very healthy starting point. And again, probably opens up a more interesting spectrum of opinion in 2023 than left /right.

 

[Anonymous]

“Scamdemic”?

Seriously?

My eyes are rolling so far back in my head I look like that girl from The Exorcist.

Don't worry, he is a Mozzballs fan, this is how they think. Mozzballs fan base's views are very quickly coming to align with their masters. Yes we've known for some time that Mozzballs is right wing but the fans are now synonymous with those views as well.

 

[Was I ever any good]

I’ve never really given Cole the time to listen to. What would be an accessible album to start with?

You are the Quarry

 

[Requiescant]

Sometimes at christmas youll be in a shop and youll hear Glitters Another rock n roll Christmas come on by mistake as it will be on one of them Christmas compilations, and its so odd to hear him anywhere.
Was in Greggs a couple of years ago and 'Boxers' came on, i had to pinch myself, was i dreaming??

Interesting you should mention Glitter's Christmas record as it never gets played now except, as you say, when shops play old compilation CDs. However, every Festive, Phil Spector's Christmas album gets plundered by every radio station. Spector murdered his girlfriend! It opens up the old debate; Caravaggio's paintings hang in the finest galleries, William Burroughs books are in every library and bookshop, and Joe Meek's productions still turn up in adverts and films. It seems murder/manslaughter isn't enough to warrant cancellation, but a hard-drive full of repugnant images, or 'controversial' views on immigration....

And which station was playing 'Boxers'? I don't even remember hearing it played in 1995

 

[Mike Rourke]

I’ve never really given Cole the time to listen to. What would be an accessible album to start with?

I'd give Rattlesnakes a go. It's brilliant.
Although The Smiths wrote many better songs than LC overall, I much prefer Rattlesnakes to the Smiths' first album which both came out in 1985.
A lot of the album Easy Pieces is great but not as consistent as Rattlesnakes. I expect you'll recognise its biggest single Brand New Friend if you ever listen to stations/Spotify that play a lot of music from the 1980s, and Lost Weekend gets tons of airplay, too.
Mainstream is patchier still but it does contain 'Jennifer She Said' which is probably my favourite Lloyd Cole single.

The song below is considered by many to be his/their finest hour. It's definitely up there!

 

[gashonthenail]

I'd give Rattlesnakes a go. It's brilliant.
Although The Smiths wrote many better songs than LC overall, I much prefer Rattlesnakes to the Smiths' first album which both came out in 1985.
A lot of the album Easy Pieces is great but not as consistent as Rattlesnakes. I expect you'll recognise its biggest single Brand New Friend if you ever listen to stations/Spotify that play a lot of music from the 1980s, and Lost Weekend gets tons of airplay, too.
Mainstream is patchier still but it does contain 'Jennifer She Said' which is probably my favourite Lloyd Cole single.

The song below is considered by many to be his/their finest hour. It's definitely up there!

Always found him interesting as a song writer. I think his criticism of his voice on Rattlesnakes is true for all his work though to be honest:
I don't enjoy the sound of my voice...It's overly mannered.

 

[Crisstti]

His views on Brexit were not a huge problem, even supporting Farage wouldn't have damaged him that much.

Well I don't know. I seem to see it mentioned a lot. Even Johnny Marr brought it up.

But publicly and wholeheartedly supporting a far right political party (or at least far to the right of the UK Conservative party) in a direct, personal message on his own website most certainly did.

I'm not sure if For Britain can be said to be to the right of the Conservative party, when it doesn't seem to be a conservative party in the first place, at least from what I've read.

It's not about having the audacity to express different views to his fans.
It's about destroying a huge part of the spirit of the Smiths (for which he was 98% personally responsible) which was anti-violence, anti-corporate, anti-royalty and very clearly and repeatedly anti-right wing.
His current views would be no problem at all for pop stars who were always right wing e.g. Right Said Fred and Gary Barlow, but he's not one of them.

Isn't Morrissey still anti-violence, anti-corporate, anti-royalty (and pro animals, pro women)?
What is right-wing anyway?

 

[Amy]

I'm not sure if For Britain can be said to be to the right of the Conservative party, when it doesn't seem to be a conservative party in the first place, at least from what I've read.

Of course they were to the right of the Tories. I'm sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Hergo]

Uh BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA LA.IZQUIERDA LA DERECHA LA DERECHA Y LA IZQUIERDA...ME TIENEN HARTA!! LAS 2!!!!!QUE ABURRIDOOOOO

Es cansador el tema político en este foro.Es preferible hablar de musica.

 

[Crisstti]

Of course they were to the right of the Tories. I'm sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about.

Possibly!
Could they be described as a conservative though? With a lesbian vegan leader?

 

[Mike Rourke]

I'm not sure if For Britain can be said to be to the right of the Conservative party, when it doesn't seem to be a conservative party in the first place, at least from what I've read.

Yes, they were clearly to the right of the Conservative party. David Cameron and Nigel Farage both pointed this out.
If you looked at their manifesto, they wanted to end inheritance tax (which protects the wealthy, and is something the Conservatives wouldn't risk doing) and they wanted a flat rate of income tax, which inevitably means less tax for higher earners. And there were a couple of other clearly right wing proposals in there too.
I don't think there's a clear definition of 'far right' so hard to say whether they fit it. They didn't really seem that extreme to me but they were very clearly right wing.
Voicing your support for them doesn't make you a terrible person - the problem is (as I've already mentioned) that the Smiths and the original Morrissey aesthetic was very much opposed to right wing politics, so his full blooded support for a right wing party has had a huge impact on his popularity and image. His repeated support/admiration for Farage, sympathy for Tommy Robinson and other similar gestures, has just firmed up in most people's eyes that he now holds genuinely right wing views.

 

[Seymour Glass]

The whole "Morrissey is right wing" thing is so effing stupid I want to vomit in my pants.

 

[DagenhamDan]

Interesting you should mention Glitter's Christmas record as it never gets played now except, as you say, when shops play old compilation CDs. However, every Festive, Phil Spector's Christmas album gets plundered by every radio station. Spector murdered his girlfriend! It opens up the old debate; Caravaggio's paintings hang in the finest galleries, William Burroughs books are in every library and bookshop, and Joe Meek's productions still turn up in adverts and films. It seems murder/manslaughter isn't enough to warrant cancellation, but a hard-drive full of repugnant images, or 'controversial' views on immigration....

And which station was playing 'Boxers'? I don't even remember hearing it played in 1995

Its strange isnt it or maybe it isnt, but i dont think murder is seen as bad as paedophilia, so a murderer like Spector can still be played, its just seen as a tragic story, i suppose you can kill or murder somebody and not be seen as necessarily 'bad'. But abusing a child is something quite different, deliberately evil i suppose.
Meek killed his landlady but was a very tragic, confused and angry individual, not evil i would say. Glitter and his type plan and prey and choose to live in places which enable their sick desires.
Me and a bunch of mates drove from london to Bournemouth new years eve 1987 to see Glitter, a very popular yuletide entertainer, little did we know.
Back to Greggs, i dont know if it was a radio or someones compilation but when i heard it i was looking to see if anyone else was as dumbfounded as me to hear a relatively obscure Moz 45 from yesteryear being played. Of course no one was

 

[Crisstti]

Yes, they were clearly to the right of the Conservative party. David Cameron and Nigel Farage both pointed this out.
If you looked at their manifesto, they wanted to end inheritance tax (which protects the wealthy, and is something the Conservatives wouldn't risk doing) and they wanted a flat rate of income tax, which inevitably means less tax for higher earners. And there were a couple of other clearly right wing proposals in there too.
I don't think there's a clear definition of 'far right' so hard to say whether they fit it. They didn't really seem that extreme to me but they were very clearly right wing.
Voicing your support for them doesn't make you a terrible person - the problem is (as I've already mentioned) that the Smiths and the original Morrissey aesthetic was very much opposed to right wing politics, so his full blooded support for a right wing party has had a huge impact on his popularity and image. His repeated support/admiration for Farage, sympathy for Tommy Robinson and other similar gestures, has just firmed up in most people's eyes that he now holds genuinely right wing views.

Thank you.
So I guess they couldn't be called conservative, but definitely right wing when it comes to taxes (wanting lower taxes has to be one of the more clearly right wing positions). I think Morrissey has specifically mentioned too his opposition to high taxes (and in general seems to have a big distrust of the whole state apparatus)

 

[Amy]

Possibly!
Could they be described as a conservative though? With a lesbian vegan leader?

Conservatism as it relates to the Conservative Party is sometimes called "Big C conservatism." This relates to the policies and ideas of the CP and For Britain were very far beyond those bounds, as Mike has explored above.

What you are asking is more about "small-c conservatism". Many people hold conservative views and values without those being aligned to the CP. So you could say that there are some ways in which FB weren't traditionally conservative, yes, but that doesn't mean they weren't significantly further right than the CP.

 

[Thewlis]

Conservatism as it relates to the Conservative Party is sometimes called "Big C conservatism." This relates to the policies and ideas of the CP and For Britain were very far beyond those bounds, as Mike has explored above.

What you are asking is more about "small-c conservatism". Many people hold conservative views and values without those being aligned to the CP. So you could say that there are some ways in which FB weren't traditionally conservative, yes, but that doesn't mean they weren't significantly further right than the CP.

From what we’ve heard Morrissey was only ever interested in this party because of its leader, a lesbian vegetarian who addressed halal slaughter.

There’s really nothing more to it.

 

[Amy]

From what we’ve heard Morrissey was only ever interested in this party because of its leader, a lesbian vegetarian who addressed halal slaughter.

There’s really nothing more to it.

Heard from whom, Malarkey the Unhinged?
Assuming that his show of support has everything to do with the leader and nothing to do with the actual FB policies - and then blithely stating that as fact - is just absurd. It's the most pathetic attempt to pass the buck I have ever heard. You must think Moz has the mental faculties of a 12 year old.

 

[Crisstti]

Conservatism as it relates to the Conservative Party is sometimes called "Big C conservatism." This relates to the policies and ideas of the CP and For Britain were very far beyond those bounds, as Mike has explored above.

What you are asking is more about "small-c conservatism". Many people hold conservative views and values without those being aligned to the CP. So you could say that there are some ways in which FB weren't traditionally conservative, yes, but that doesn't mean they weren't significantly further right than the CP.

Interesting. I doubt Morrissey would ever support a traditionally conservative party. What must have appealed to him about FB was their support (or at least when it came to Anne Marie Waters) for animal and gay rights, possibly along with their position on immigration and taxes.

 

[Thewlis]

Heard from whom, Malarkey the Unhinged?
Assuming that it has everything to do with the leader and nothing to do with the actual FB policies - and then blithely stating that as fact - is just absurd. You must think Moz has the mental faculties of a 12 year old.

Heard from Morrissey in interviews. What else?

Morrissey has only ever expressed admiration for Waters, even before she was head of that party.
Without her leadership of that party he wouldn’t have cared for them.