Independent.ie: Lloyd Cole Interview - with Morrissey anecdotes (July 2, 2023)

Lloyd Cole interview Sunday Independent (Ireland) 2nd July - Morrissey references

Morrissey became a fan. He said Cole was the sort of person who gets "erotic about blotting paper". To which Cole replied: "I do. I am a real stationery fetishist."
When Lloyd Cole and the Commotions played their first gig in London at the Dominion Theatre, they came offstage and went to their dressing room to find Morrissey "drinking a cup of tea. We were friends for a few years." Does he despair for his old friend's right-wing politics now? "Oh, I couldn't possibly be friends with Morrissey now. But that's the lovely thing about art, those Smiths records and those Morrissey records are yours now. You can remove the author. In fact, the author is necessarily removed when the record is released."
In 1985, he and Morrissey met up a few times. "We had tea at Fortnum & Mason. That was his idea. We would play each other songs that we were working on. I got to hear 'Meat is Murder' before it came out."
Was that a bit like Alan Bennett and Dennis Potter having lunch together?"It absolutely wasn't," he says with a laugh, "because we were both still young and immature and still finding our way, in terms of finding our voices.
"I think Morrissey probably found his voice on The Queen is Dead and I found mine on my first solo record. I think I was trying to be less worthy from Rattlesnakes onwards. I love Rattlesnakes to death but it is hard for me to listen to the singing now. I don't en- joy the sound of my voice on that record. It's overly mannered.

https://archive.is/pVhnY

 

[Iamhatedforloving]

View attachment 92719

Lloyd Cole interview Sunday Independent (Ireland) 2nd July - Morrissey references

Morrissey became a fan. He said Cole was the sort of person who gets "erotic about blotting paper". To which Cole replied: "I do. I am a real stationery fetishist."
When Lloyd Cole and the Commotions played their first gig in London at the Dominion Theatre, they came offstage and went to their dressing room to find Morrissey "drinking a cup of tea. We were friends for a few years." Does he despair for his old friend's right-wing politics now? "Oh, I couldn't possibly be friends with Morrissey now. But that's the lovely thing about art, those Smiths records and those Morrissey records are yours now. You can remove the author. In fact, the author is necessarily removed when the record is released."
In 1985, he and Morrissey met up a few times. "We had tea at Fortnum & Mason. That was his idea. We would play each other songs that we were working on. I got to hear 'Meat is Murder' before it came out."
Was that a bit like Alan Bennett and Dennis Potter having lunch together?"It absolutely wasn't," he says with a laugh, "because we were both still young and immature and still finding our way, in terms of finding our voices.
"I think Morrissey probably found his voice on The Queen is Dead and I found mine on my first solo record. I think I was trying to be less worthy from Rattlesnakes onwards. I love Rattlesnakes to death but it is hard for me to listen to the singing now. I don't en- joy the sound of my voice on that record. It's overly mannered.

https://archive.is/pVhnY

This thread has gone off the rails....hes a good guy and ....looking forward to Moz in vicar Street and maybe Lloyd in the Olympia in Oct

 

[Johnnie Ray]

It's funny you say that. As someone on the left, I think the democrat party and leftwingers have gone completely bonkers and polling seems to support this. Talk about book banning. Jesus christ. Have you even dipped a toe into the world of publishing? Countless stories of books being banned and canceled due to lefty outrage. Threats of violence? Have you seen how lefties even talk about their opponents these days? Nonstop death threats. Don't even get me started on "LGBTQ", even tons of gay activists are saying they've had enough of the nonsense happening on the left.

I agree that the Right keeps going lower and lower, but surely you must see both sides have gone insane.

None of this is true. You are far right. Own it and more people will respect you.

 

[SqueezingMySkull]

Nope. Not buying it. You are definitely not a lefty. False equivalencies is the pastime of the right. Everything you described is right wing ideology. Quit pussyfooting around it and just own it!

I suspected this response. This is a good demonstration of the bubble I mentioned. Me and all my friends and my wife are democrat-voting lefties all our life, but we have criticisms of current leftist orthodoxies that have gone way too far (and losing potential democrat votes all over the country) and "nope, you're a right-winger."

Perfect, and depressing, demonstration. The exact kind of thing I came here to criticize and express dismay about.

 

[SqueezingMySkull]

None of this is true. You are far right. Own it and more people will respect you.

Not even right, but "far right." Incredible.

I don't want to be here all night, but I can only encourage you to step outside of the bubble and think more critically about your own side. I was forced to by having to be surrounded by insanity in the past 5 years. I didn't want it to happen.

Think about what you're doing now: you are telling a fairly anonymous person, a total stranger on the internet what political party they belong to. I have no reason to lie to you about anything. I have nothing to gain.

Let me give you advice: stop this nonsense now or expect to lose more lefties and more democrat votes over the next dozen years. Look at the polling on all of these issues. Look at what rational, reasonable people think about the current state of the left. Step out of the bubble and seriously, think critically about yourself. I don't mean this disrespectfully. The current right and the current left are the exact same thing, both sides of the same coin. And it should be obvious I'm far from the only people saying this. Entire industries have sprung up inspired by this notion.

 

[Young And Alive]

None of this is true. You are far right. Own it and more people will respect you.

It is true. I've seen it myself.

And what do you mean by "far right"? What are the differences between someone who is merely "right wing"?

 

[SqueezingMySkull]

It is true. I've seen it myself.

And what do you mean by "far right"? What are the differences between someone who is merely "right wing"?

Far right is generally a more aggressive brand of right-wing, more direct about racism, anti-semitism, misogyny, associated with support for Trump (though I don't think all his supporters can be called "far right"), etc. It's often used as a nonsense boogieman term that doesn't really mean much though, like in this case.

That this person is calling me this after I stated I've been a democrat my entire life (as have my wife and all of my friends) simply because I criticized modern left-wing politics is very telling.

 

[Johnnie Ray]

I suspected this response. This is a good demonstration of the bubble I mentioned. Me and all my friends and my wife are democrat-voting lefties all our life, but we have criticisms of current leftist orthodoxies that have gone way too far (and losing potential democrat votes all over the country) and "nope, you're a right-winger."

Perfect, and depressing, demonstration. The exact kind of thing I came here to criticize and express dismay about.

Losing potential democrat votes all over the country?? So pro choice voters have had it and are going to vote what? Vote Republican? People who want AR-15s off the streets so they can send their kids to school and not worry about them getting slaughtered are going to do what? Vote Republican? The Republican party doesn't even have a platform except tax cuts for the wealthy (not you) and passing anti gay and trans legislation. Get out of here with that nonsense.

 

[Johnnie Ray]

It is true. I've seen it myself.

And what do you mean by "far right"? What are the differences between someone who is merely "right wing"?

 

[SqueezingMySkull]

Losing potential democrat votes all over the country?? So pro choice voters have had it and are going to vote what? Vote Republican? People who want AR-15s off the streets so they can send their kids to school and not worry about them getting slaughtered are going to do what? Vote Republican? The Republican party doesn't even have a platform except tax cuts for the wealthy (not you) and passing anti gay and trans legislation. Get out of here with that nonsense.

Again, you're not paying close enough attention. This isn't about abortion or guns. It's about overwhelmingly present cultural trends. I don't know if the left has ever been more hated, by both parties. Gay rights is polling worse than ever, why do you think that is, especially compared to their victories in the recent past? I'll give you a hint: it's not because of republicans. Listen to what gay people who are fed up with this have been saying. Listen to what artists of all politics have been saying about the current climate. Hell, listen to detransitioners and the insane hatred they get from the left to get a clue where this is all going in the near future.

Listen to what I am saying. Or continue to be in the bubble. Keep thinking anyone who has criticism of the left is "far right." Do you think this is a winning strategy? It's the *exact* problem I'm talking about. You are losing voters. And if you looked at the polling you would understand that most people hold fairly classical left or centrist views, and the insane indulgences of the current left are incredibly alienating to most people. So many are in fact turning to the right, but more are probably like me, just sort of in the middle without a political home, but extremely hesitant to vote democrats in unless they pass some sort of sanity test, which they will likely fail.

My wife is as leftie as it gets and she is fed up. She, like me, especially hates the suffocating culture around the arts and censorship that the left has, for some insane reason, made part of their agenda in the past 10 years. We're both sick of it. And she deals with it directly as an artist. She's still pro-choice, she still hates guns, we both do. But that isn't what we're concerned about now. We're concerned about ten more Trumps because the left wants to fight for little kids to see drag queens instead of rational, reasonable policies and ideas. It's all a bunch of cartoon nonsense lately on both sides.

 

[Johnnie Ray]

Again, you're not paying close enough attention. This isn't about abortion or guns. It's about overwhelmingly present cultural trends. I don't know if the left has ever been more hated, by both parties. Gay rights is polling worse than ever, why do you think that is, especially compared to their victories in the recent past? I'll give you a hint: it's not because of republicans. Listen to what gay people who are fed up with this have been saying. Listen to what artists of all politics have been saying about the current climate. Hell, listen to detransitioners and the insane hatred they get from the left to get a clue where this is all going in the near future.

Listen to what I am saying. Or continue to be in the bubble. Keep thinking anyone who has criticism of the left is "far right." Do you think this is a winning strategy? It's the *exact* problem I'm talking about. You are losing voters. And if you looked at the polling you would understand that most people hold fairly classical left or centrist views, and the insane indulgences of the current left are incredibly alienating to most people. So many are in fact turning to the right, but more are probably like me, just sort of in the middle without a political home, but extremely hesitant to vote democrats in unless they pass some sort of sanity test, which they will likely fail.

My wife is as leftie as it gets and she is fed up. She, like me, especially hates the suffocating culture around the arts and censorship that the left has, for some insane reason, made part of their agenda in the past 10 years. We're both sick of it. And she deals with it directly as an artist. She's still pro-choice, she still hates guns, we both do. But that isn't what we're concerned about now. We're concerned about ten more Trumps because the left wants to fight for little kids to see drag queens instead of rational, reasonable policies and ideas. It's all a bunch of cartoon nonsense lately on both sides.

You keep saying losing voters. To whom?

 

[Young And Alive]

View attachment 92749

What makes a right wing person far right?

What is the tipping point?

 

[SqueezingMySkull]

You keep saying losing voters. To whom?

To the next Trumps, whether literally Trump or another opportunist who sees the culture war and knows what buttons to press.

Jesus, even I voted for a conservative in a local election for the first time ever because the democrat was spouting a bunch of empty ideological nonsense speak and the conservative was the one with actual ideas and seemed halfway intelligent in comparison. I felt crazy doing it but I bet this has happened all over the country. The left is out of control. I know, you'll just see this as proof I'm "far right" or something. I'm not far right, but I'm certainly not far left. In fact, far left types scare the hell out of me. It's turned into a very creepy cult. One that I've been trying to understand for years, but just can't. Especially when it comes to the arts, and to children.

10 years ago my wife would have dumped me if she found out I voted conservative. Now when I told her, she was like yeah, I get it. And this is happening all over the country to democrats/lefties like me. I know because I talk to these people all the time, and my friends have all one by one gone through the same kind of experience.

 

[Johnnie Ray]

Again, you're not paying close enough attention. This isn't about abortion or guns. It's about overwhelmingly present cultural trends. I don't know if the left has ever been more hated, by both parties. Gay rights is polling worse than ever, why do you think that is, especially compared to their victories in the recent past? I'll give you a hint: it's not because of republicans. Listen to what gay people who are fed up with this have been saying. Listen to what artists of all politics have been saying about the current climate. Hell, listen to detransitioners and the insane hatred they get from the left to get a clue where this is all going in the near future.

Listen to what I am saying. Or continue to be in the bubble. Keep thinking anyone who has criticism of the left is "far right." Do you think this is a winning strategy? It's the *exact* problem I'm talking about. You are losing voters. And if you looked at the polling you would understand that most people hold fairly classical left or centrist views, and the insane indulgences of the current left are incredibly alienating to most people. So many are in fact turning to the right, but more are probably like me, just sort of in the middle without a political home, but extremely hesitant to vote democrats in unless they pass some sort of sanity test, which they will likely fail.

My wife is as leftie as it gets and she is fed up. She, like me, especially hates the suffocating culture around the arts and censorship that the left has, for some insane reason, made part of their agenda in the past 10 years. We're both sick of it. And she deals with it directly as an artist. She's still pro-choice, she still hates guns, we both do. But that isn't what we're concerned about now. We're concerned about ten more Trumps because the left wants to fight for little kids to see drag queens instead of rational, reasonable policies and ideas. It's all a bunch of cartoon nonsense lately on both sides.

You keep saying losing voters. To whom?

To the next Trumps, whether literally Trump or another opportunist who sees the culture war and knows what buttons to press.

Jesus, even I voted for a conservative in a local election for the first time ever because the democrat was spouting a bunch of empty ideological nonsense speak and the conservative was the one with actual ideas and seemed halfway intelligent in comparison. I felt crazy doing it but I bet this has happened all over the country. The left is out of control. I know, you'll just see this as proof I'm "far right" or something. I'm not far right, but I'm certainly not far left. In fact, far left types scare the hell out of me. It's turned into a very creepy cult. One that I've been trying to understand for years, but just can't. Especially when it comes to the arts, and to children.

10 years ago my wife would have dumped me if she found out I voted conservative. Now when I told her, she was like yeah, I get it. And this is happening all over the country to democrats/lefties like me. I know because I talk to these people all the time, and my friends have all one by one gone through the same kind of experience.

To the next Trumps, whether literally Trump or another opportunist who sees the culture war and knows what buttons to press.

Jesus, even I voted for a conservative in a local election for the first time ever because the democrat was spouting a bunch of empty ideological nonsense speak and the conservative was the one with actual ideas and seemed halfway intelligent in comparison. I felt crazy doing it but I bet this has happened all over the country. The left is out of control. I know, you'll just see this as proof I'm "far right" or something. I'm not far right, but I'm certainly not far left. In fact, far left types scare the hell out of me. It's turned into a very creepy cult. One that I've been trying to understand for years, but just can't. Especially when it comes to the arts, and to children.

10 years ago my wife would have dumped me if she found out I voted conservative. Now when I told her, she was like yeah, I get it. And this is happening all over the country to democrats/lefties like me. I know because I talk to these people all the time, and my friends have all one by one gone through the same kind of experience.

Wait a second. That doesn't make sense. What was the issue or issues where you felt the conservative candidate was the better choice? Are you able to articulate where the right wing ideology was more inline with your way of thinking? Because what you just described was someone who used to be more liberal but now sees themselves as more right wing, oh and all your friends too, apparently.

 

[SqueezingMySkull]

Wait a second. That doesn't make sense. What was the issue or issues where you felt the conservative candidate was the better choice? Are you able to articulate where the right wing ideology was more inline with your way of thinking? Because what you just described was someone who used to be more liberal but now sees themselves as more right wing, oh and all your friends too, apparently.

It makes plenty of sense, because politics need not be extremes, which you don't seem to realize.

The specific issue was about defunding the police. The democrat was saying we should do it. I am in a city with a lot of crime. Defunding the police seemed like an insanely stupid and dangerous idea (and I believe time has shown that it was. Things have gotten worse here, though probably a lot of reasons for that.) I read interviews with both candidates. The conservative candidate proposed ideas for helping the community and the police be on more friendly terms, meet and greets, community events, etc. Not once did she say "defund the police", which I suspect the democrat did because, like it happens much on the left, a catchy slogan caught on and you must repeat it like a pod person or else be ostracized. I'm not a fan of police myself, but I'm rational enough to know demolishing or defunding them is anarchy in a big city. I live in the real world, I don't live in a political slogan.

I voted for her, and she lost, because I'm in a democrat city, which is fine with me, because I vote democrat usually, but that's a perfectly fine example of the left losing touch with reality and shooting themselves in the foot. They keep doing it over and over again. It's been embarrassing.

Seattle, another blue city I go to frequently, is a great example of a city completely failed by democrat policies. Would republicans improve things? No clue. But it's so silly and naive to think just because it's a democrat policy, it will work. They are destroying a beautiful city.

Abortion is actually a great example of an issue that I agree with the left on, but absolutely hate how the left advocates for pro-choice. The left is terrible at this debate. The right is too. But it's a good example where I'm just like "jesus christ, BE BETTER AT THIS." Everybody jumps to stupid extremes and yells past each other.

 

[hand in glove]

Didn’t Morrissey once say that Lloyd Cole was far more interesting as a person than any of the music he’d made? Something like that? Kind of the opposite to Morrissey.

Yes he said that.

 

[Johnnie Ray]

It makes plenty of sense, because politics need not be extremes, which you don't seem to realize.

The specific issue was about defunding the police. The democrat was saying we should do it. I am in a city with a lot of crime. Defunding the police seemed like an insanely stupid and dangerous idea (and I believe time has shown that it was. Things have gotten worse here, though probably a lot of reasons for that.) I read interviews with both candidates. The conservative candidate proposed ideas for helping the community and the police be on more friendly terms, meet and greets, community events, etc. Not once did she say "defund the police", which I suspect the democrat did because, like it happens much on the left, a catchy slogan caught on and you must repeat it like a pod person or else be ostracized. I'm not a fan of police myself, but I'm rational enough to know demolishing or defunding them is anarchy in a big city. I live in the real world, I don't live in a political slogan.

I voted for her, and she lost, because I'm in a democrat city, which is fine with me, because I vote democrat usually, but that's a perfectly fine example of the left Republicans have sought to link Democrats to the movement in congressional races.[26] Among the general public in the United States, the concept of defunding is unpopular.[27][28][26]losing touch with reality and shooting themselves in the foot. They keep doing it over and over again. It's been embarrassing.

Seattle, another blue city I go to frequently, is a great example of a city completely failed by democrat policies. Would republicans improve things? No clue. But it's so silly and naive to think just because it's a democrat policy, it will work. They are destroying a beautiful city.

Abortion is actually a great example of an issue that I agree with the left on, but absolutely hate how the left advocates for pro-choice. The left is terrible at this debate. The right is too. But it's a good example where I'm just like "jesus christ, BE BETTER AT THIS." Everybody jumps to stupid extremes and yells past each other.

Jeez. The "Defund the Police" slogan was hijacked and misappropriated by the right wing! It did not mean that we literally wanted to eliminate police departments. LOL.

"Republicans have sought to link Democrats to the movement in congressional races. Among the general public in the United States, the concept of defunding is unpopular."

I knew that term was confusing to the layperson and that Republicans were going to muddy the waters and lie about it. Sounds like it worked in your case. Dear Lord. Ironically, Republicans have no problem with defunding the FBI because how dear they hold an ex president (who to this day says the election was stolen) accountable for his many felonies! The audacity. I give up. You used to be somewhat liberal, you no longer are, end of story. I leave you with this: as a general rule of thumb, if you belong to a party which includes Marjorie Taylor-Greene, Jim Jordan, Donald Trump, Ron DeSantis, Ted Cruz, Matt Gaetz, Lauren Boebert, FOX News, Rudy Giuliani, I could go on all day-- change party's and do it yesterday. Obviously no political party is perfect but there is absolutely no comparison between the two. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.--Johnnie Ray Out!

 

[Johnnie Ray]

I think it`s sad that now you can`t be friends with people who have different opinions than you. I am left leaning tree hugging liberal, but I have family members than lean to the right but that doesn`t mean they are bad people or that I don`t love them because of their political views. It`s also sad because the press still calls Morrissey right wing when he has clearly stated that he is neither right nor left wing. I don`t think he believes in the whole political system. I know other people who also believe in this way of thinking.

Then he has no right to complain.

 

[hand in glove]

Again, one can say the exact same thing about the leftwingers in America. I know because I am friends with some of them. I interact with them every day. I am a leftie in a leftie city. I see the insane bubble these people are in. Logic and sanity have gone out the window. Also a disturbing trend of authoritarianism and violence, science denial as bad as anything a Republican has ever done, and worse. The little lefty kids these days think 1984 is a How-To manual for creating a Utopia. And the anxiety, depression and suicide for kids is going through the roof due to the insane ideologies happening on that end of the spectrum.

It's bad here on both sides. Very, very bad. But these days sometimes I feel like someone on the right could have a more sane conversation with me than on the left. Unfortunate, but true. And my god, the behavior of the left is going to get us a dozen more Trumps elected unless they stop the nonsense immediately.

You need to list the things that you find astonishing and that make you feel that it’s alright to criticise left wing folks like me. What are we doing that causes you to think we’re looney? Are you okay with Lindsey Graham sobbing on tv and begging people to give Trump money? Do you find that normal and sane? What about Trump even being able to run for President as a Felon? Should that be okay? How about all the far right goons over turning Roe vs Wade? Are you okay with women having to travel for abortions or delivering a child even though the mother has been told that the baby will not survive? Are you okay with Desantis banning books because he basically wants to rewrite history? What about affirmative action being turned upside down? Oh, yes…and Guns. Mass shootings every other day. Of course there’s a massive outcry from people. Where do you find the insanity? I find it insane that you don’t get up and do something. I find it looney that all you’re doing is pondering the outrageous lefties. And you are terribly wrong if you think people are going to give away their freedom to the Republicans. They are ruining this country. Plain and simple.

 

[Crisstti]

I didnt know that, i think the difference with the 90s and now is it was mostly Steven Wells and other NME journalists who were driving the racism thing and it was largely ignored by most people as the NME trying to derail their once golden boy, but that was again largely forgotten when Vauxhall & I came out and all was forgiven, briefly.
Whereas now its almost universal, they are showing old bbc2 in concerts on tonight and i was thinking there is absolutely no way they would now show the Moz show from 2008 or indeed anything he has done, at all, on any channel now. Its so sad

It's sad, and just wrong.

I do think the NME's hit job might well have a lot to do with his current bad image, as the idea that Morrissey was racist probably hanged on to some degree or other since.

He probably should have sued them for defamation way back then.

 

[Gaylord Deepstar]

And you sound exactly like the vacuous vagina that you are.

Why do you use lady parts as an insult? Do you have some deep-rooted problems with women?