Der Spiegel audio file of Morrissey interview released

Charlie Cheswick · Dec 18, 2017

reelfountain said:
Why try to play lawyer with sex attack figures then? 1200 were sexually attacked in one night - 600 in one single square - by migrants. Isn't that enough for you to be shocked, instead of nitpicking about precise figures and exact terminology?

Because what you were saying was a complete lie?

Imagine of the discussion was about the pros and cons of religion, the impact of migration and the reasons for it instead of arguing about your bullshit? That'd me more interesting but

bhops said:
So much to discuss from this short post.

Here is my issue, and I think the issue with a lot of people who are troubled by the sudden and mass migration from the Middle East (and please note the italicized words as I want make it clear that I am not ANTI immigration.) What does it say about a culture that they have to be told when arriving in a new country that groping women is not acceptable?

I mean really, shouldn't that just be logical regardless of where you live? And it is part of the conundrum I can never quite equate when debating my friends on the Left. (Not sure if you are left leaning Charlie, but from what I can glean from your posts, you are. I don't mean this in an offensive way either.) Take another thread the Weinstein thread where I have stated that for many men and women discussing sex in a frank and brutish manner is quite commonplace. My Leftist friends will tell me that that sort of talk is unacceptable, irresponsible etc. OK, so I take their point, I can understand how/why they feel that way even if I don't quite agree, because for me words and actions are two very different things.

Anyhoo these same folks will argue that mass immigration from the Middle East is nothing to worry about, even when Europe is importing hundreds of thousands of young men (because they mostly seem to be well fed, well clothed, android-phone-owning young men) who as you stated above (with your, they need to be reeducated comment) are coming from a culture that condones actual sexual assault against women.

Can you see how this confuses me? Please don't talk about women in a degrading manner/hey let's let thousands of young men who see women as their groping dolls into the country!

And as to your point about reeducation, I personally have my doubts. The problem being primarily one of infrastructure. I simply don't believe that Europe has the resources to both reeducate nor offer these economic migrants the new life they may be hoping for. Arriving in a new country, unable to speak the language, unable to secure gainful employment, dumped in virtual refugee camps with hundreds of similarly disaffected young youth, what do you really think the chances of reeducation are? There is a reason Merkel is offering them money to go back. And with ISIS virtually defeated there will be no reason soon not to return.

My issue is if we're going to have a foreign policy which means that a whole region is completely destabilized then people are going to come here whether you or I like it or not. The people that we're discussing has nothing to do with EU migration, it's to do with the Middle East being f***ed. Think back to that monster Blair marching us into Iraq despite all of us warning him of the consequences, to Cameron and co urging all of the Middle Eastern people to rise up against their leaders? Yeah.

Timeplease! · Dec 18, 2017

bhops said:
Again please see my previous post, I am not anti immigration but I do believe passionately in controlled immigration with the ability to thoroughly vet who is coming into your country. I get all the good things an immigrant brings to a new country but you must surely take into consideration some of the negatives as well. You might not be a statistician but surely even if we take Charlie’s 50% stat that MUST ring a few alarm bells??? I wouldn’t care if the group we are discussing is from either the Middle East or Mars, if they are brown or white, rich of poor, a statistic of 50% as far as sexual harassment goes particularly from a small percentage of the population requires further investigation.

Charlie's 50% (could be an ale) may well have some merit. Is he a stats nut?

I blame Morrissey for wasting my time trying to convince folk like you. He's fueling your fear. Try to be fair.

Charlie Cheswick · Dec 18, 2017

Timeplease! said:
Charlie's 50% (could be an ale) may well have some merit. Is he a stats nut?

I blame Morrissey for wasting my time trying to convince folk like you. He's fueling your fear. Try to be fair.

The 50% was just from news articles. I have questions, why Cologne and not say London, Leicester and Birmingham too? Numbers of assaulters have been reported but there is no actual evidence which would lead to an accurate number to report. That figure is just plucked out of thin air.

Why does your average racist take isolated incidents and make them to be the whole?
Why does Morrissey acknowledge the riduculous wars that we've taken part in but seems unable to put two and two together to realize why there are suddenly refugees everywhere? Ditto other people who do the same.

I really dislike organized religions but the partizan way that people look at Muslims makes me want to tell 'em to f*** off rather than join in. Most people just want to get on in life. Most people don't want to travel across continents to find a safe place because their country has been blown up. Most people aren't sex offenders no matter where they're from or what their religion is. In short, each man and woman is responsible for their own actions no matter how stupid their religion and over time use education to force change.

Uncleskinny · Dec 18, 2017

Charlie Cheswick said:
The 50% was just from news articles. I have questions, why Cologne and not say London, Leicester and Birmingham too? Numbers of assaulters have been reported but there is no actual evidence which would lead to an accurate number to report. That figure is just plucked out of thin air.

Why does your average racist take isolated incidents and make them to be the whole?
Why does Morrissey acknowledge the riduculous wars that we've taken part in but seems unable to put two and two together to realize why there are suddenly refugees everywhere? Ditto other people who do the same.

I really dislike organized religions but the partizan way that people look at Muslims makes me want to tell 'em to f*** off rather than join in. Most people just want to get on in life. Most people don't want to travel across continents to find a safe place because their country has been blown up. Most people aren't sex offenders no matter where they're from or what their religion is. In short, each man and woman is responsible for their own actions no matter how stupid their religion and over time use education to force change.

Brilliant post. Bravo.

Peterb · Dec 18, 2017

Uncleskinny said:
Brilliant post. Bravo.

How dare you?
More bullying and violent language from a well known troll.
I will be making my complaints on the appropriate thread.

bhops · Dec 18, 2017

Timeplease! said:
Charlie's 50% (could be an ale) may well have some merit. Is he a stats nut?

I blame Morrissey for wasting my time trying to convince folk like you. He's fueling your fear. Try to be fair.

I couldn't give a f*** what Morrissey thinks about this, I draw my own conclusions.

bhops · Dec 18, 2017

Charlie Cheswick said:
Because what you were saying was a complete lie?

Imagine of the discussion was about the pros and cons of religion, the impact of migration and the reasons for it instead of arguing about your bullshit? That'd me more interesting but

My issue is if we're going to have a foreign policy which means that a whole region is completely destabilized then people are going to come here whether you or I like it or not. The people that we're discussing has nothing to do with EU migration, it's to do with the Middle East being f***ed. Think back to that monster Blair marching us into Iraq despite all of us warning him of the consequences, to Cameron and co urging all of the Middle Eastern people to rise up against their leaders? Yeah.

I actually agree with you about American/British/European foreign policy not helping matters, but even those with the most basic grasp of history will understand that region has been a mess of bloodshed for centuries.

However disappointingly for me you have (willfully?) decided not to address a single point I raised in my previous post to you, just a straight pivot away to foreign policy. I'm enjoying the discourse with you thus far and am genuinely interested in what your POV is on the matters I have raised.

Charlie Cheswick · Dec 18, 2017

bhops said:
I actually agree with you about American/British/European foreign policy not helping matters, but even those with the most basic grasp of history will understand that region has been a mess of bloodshed for centuries.

However disappointingly for me you have (willfully?) decided not to address a single point I raised in my previous post to you, just a straight pivot away to foreign policy. I'm enjoying the discourse with you thus far and am genuinely interested in what your POV is on the matters I have raised.

Sorry I didn't see your comment, been lots on here since.

I think I'm quite central in that I don't pick a side, I just say what I see and if that puts me on one side or other that's for other people to decide.

My issue with this story is the blatant things that just don't stack up as I've gone into above. As for immigration, that's something I'm fairly indifferent about. Firstly, whether I care about it or not is neither here nor there, what will be will be regardless of what I think. I do think that our foreign policy has made immigration from the Middle East inevitable. Ditto the raised problem with terrorism and a dodgy Islamic ideology, the two go hand in hand. It goes back to the promotion of it as a tool to fight the USSR in Afghanistan and has grown with our military forays into the Middle East. I haven't got the answers in how to deal with the problem now its here, my argument was always about prevention but as our leaders are more intent in fighting fire with fire and escallating the problem it appears that too is something I can think what I like about but what will be will be.

Back to immigration, when people no longer have a country that they can live in they leave. Let's say that if some foreign power decided they'd had enough of our leaders and bombed the shit out of us so we no longer had homes, chances are we'd want to leave and we'd go to wherever seemed like a safe place. That's how I see what's happened, it's just we're the safe place.

As for education, when I grew up most people saw themselves as Christian, some still do but most are agnostic at best. That's what education does. When I was a kid every other person seemed like a sex case, everyone was getting groped, much worse in lots of cases as time has gone by and the truth has come out. What changed that? Educating people as to what was good behaviour and what wasn't. So we go to incoming people from different cultures. What is acceptable behaviour has to be stressed on arrival. You don't need to do that with most people but it's fair to say that it's worthwhile to do it for those that don't have basic standards of behaviour that we'd expect.

It's a rambling answer but you raised a lot of points that I'm doing my best to remember.

bhops · Dec 18, 2017

Charlie Cheswick said:
Sorry I didn't see your comment, been lots on here since.

I think I'm quite central in that I don't pick a side, I just say what I see and if that puts me on one side or other that's for other people to decide.

My issue with this story is the blatant things that just don't stack up as I've gone into above. As for immigration, that's something I'm fairly indifferent about. Firstly, whether I care about it or not is neither here nor there, what will be will be regardless of what I think. I do think that our foreign policy has made immigration from the Middle East inevitable. Ditto the raised problem with terrorism and a dodgy Islamic ideology, the two go hand in hand. It goes back to the promotion of it as a tool to fight the USSR in Afghanistan and has grown with our military forays into the Middle East. I haven't got the answers in how to deal with the problem now its here, my argument was always about prevention but as our leaders are more intent in fighting fire with fire and escallating the problem it appears that too is something I can think what I like about but what will be will be.

Back to immigration, when people no longer have a country that they can live in they leave. Let's say that if some foreign power decided they'd had enough of our leaders and bombed the shit out of us so we no longer had homes, chances are we'd want to leave and we'd go to wherever seemed like a safe place. That's how I see what's happened, it's just we're the safe place.

As for education, when I grew up most people saw themselves as Christian, some still do but most are agnostic at best. That's what education does. When I was a kid every other person seemed like a sex case, everyone was getting groped, much worse in lots of cases as time has gone by and the truth has come out. What changed that? Educating people as to what was good behaviour and what wasn't. So we go to incoming people from different cultures. What is acceptable behaviour has to be stressed on arrival. You don't need to do that with most people but it's fair to say that it's worthwhile to do it for those that don't have basic standards of behaviour that we'd expect.

It's a rambling answer but you raised a lot of points that I'm doing my best to remember.

Did you see the video with Roy Beck's gumball analysis explaining the effect on world poverty using immigration as a solution? I'll link it just in case not, but it's fascinating. My point I guess is sure it may ease your conscience to know we are taking people in that may have been displaced through bad foreign policy but does it really change anything? In fact does it even make a dent in the problem?

The other issue which you haven't addressed, although I do appreciate your lengthy response, is I simply don't believe that Europe/UK has the infrastructure in place to adequately take in these migrants en masse and offer them a better life. All you are doing is replacing the war zones of their homeland with ghettos in a new one. maybe a marginal improvement but all you end up with long term is a Rinkeby type outcome, not good for the migrants and not good for the native inhabitants. If reeducation as you put it, is to take place then you need a strong infrastructure in place to help new arrivals fully assimilate into their new country. As far as I can see in many many countries these people are being dumped into little better than squatter camps and being left to fend for themselves. That is dangerous for the obvious reasons and long term I fear the dissatisfaction that comes from the situation will create a vacuum for radicalisation.

You must'e grown up in avery different type of life to me because i certainly don't remember in my Christian/agnostic environment any type of grope epidemic breaking out although apparently I am the only one that has ever played in a sports team/stood in a bar etc that has ever heard men talk dirty about women :lbf:

Still at least long term the European multinationals will get access to cheap labour and they can watch their profits soar even more; I guess the puppet politicians that work for them are at least implementing the strategy as directed.

Charlie Cheswick · Dec 18, 2017

bhops said:
Did you see the video with Roy Beck's gumball analysis explaining the effect on world poverty using immigration as a solution? I'll link it just in case not, but it's fascinating. My point I guess is sure it may ease your conscience to know we are taking people in that may have been displaced through bad foreign policy but does it really change anything? In fact does it even make a dent in the problem?

The other issue which you haven't addressed, although I do appreciate your lengthy response, is I simply don't believe that Europe/UK has the infrastructure in place to adequately take in these migrants en masse and offer them a better life. All you are doing is replacing the war zones of their homeland with ghettos in a new one. maybe a marginal improvement but all you end up with long term is a Rinkeby type outcome, not good for the migrants and not good for the native inhabitants. If reeducation as you put it, is to take place then you need a strong infrastructure in place to help new arrivals fully assimilate into their new country. As far as I can see in many many countries these people are being dumped into little better than squatter camps and being left to fend for themselves. That is dangerous for the obvious reasons and long term I fear the dissatisfaction that comes from the situation will create a vacuum for radicalisation.

You must'e grown up in avery different type of life to me because i certainly don't remember in my Christian/agnostic environment any type of grope epidemic breaking out although apparently I am the only one that has ever played in a sports team/stood in a bar etc that has ever heard men talk dirty about women

Still at least long term the European multinationals will get access to cheap labour and they can watch their profits soar even more; I guess the puppet politicians that work for them are at least implementing the strategy as directed.

I grew up in 80's Britain with lads hanging outside school yards with their cars to pick up their girlfriends. Where I watched fellas older than me grabbing women as routine. It was the culture of the time. I probably rallied against this too much in my youth such was the effect on me. It's funny I was talking to my wife about all of this while we were having a drink in town the other day. I was saying it's funny, when I started coming here there were mobs of lads chasing each other and then having a mass brawl and blokes here were generally sex pests. My point is that it's not generally like that now and a lot of effort over a lot of time changed it.

You can talk about countries' infrastructures being able to cope all you like but if a whole country is flattened the people of that country are going to be on the move whether you like it or not and the countries they move to being able to cope is neither here nor there. It's just reality.

As Western countries we're completely sheltered from most kinds of torments that the rest of the World might face. We don't know what it's like to be invaded, we have our norms and when those are turned a little we don't cope. We don't cope when we have a two inches of snow, we don't cope when people arrive from elsewhere, we just don't generally cope. But we do really, we just moan about it.

Onto your video, much of the World is poor because of the rigged monetary system that we preside over. We're the winners and they're the losers. We like the system because we win but at the same time people elsewhere will want to come.

The truth is that people come here and they contribute - if they're allowed to. Obviously that rules out a lot of arrivals, only those who've gone through the system. But when they're here officially, they put in and then some. The NHS is top heavy with immigrants. People say the NHS can't cope because of immigrants. Work that out. What with immigrants contribuiting more than they take out of the economy and being top heavy in the employment of the NHS. Could it be that the NHS isn't being funded appropriately in proportion to the population?

Obviously there are other things to think about. Integration is something people seem to skirt away from. It's natural that people want to flock together but at the same time it's not good for integration. Then again you've got areas that are mostly Jewish or Irish that nobody bats an eyelid to so is the problem just when you see lots of brown people together? Black areas always got a lot more negative attention than other areas when I was a kid. There are attitudes towards women and minorities that might not fit with our own that need to be addressed. I'm in danger of writing an essay here and I can't even remember why I started.

Born to Harangue · Dec 19, 2017

Charlie Cheswick said:
Sorry I didn't see your comment, been lots on here since.

I think I'm quite central in that I don't pick a side, I just say what I see and if that puts me on one side or other that's for other people to decide.

My issue with this story is the blatant things that just don't stack up as I've gone into above. As for immigration, that's something I'm fairly indifferent about. Firstly, whether I care about it or not is neither here nor there, what will be will be regardless of what I think. I do think that our foreign policy has made immigration from the Middle East inevitable. Ditto the raised problem with terrorism and a dodgy Islamic ideology, the two go hand in hand. It goes back to the promotion of it as a tool to fight the USSR in Afghanistan and has grown with our military forays into the Middle East. I haven't got the answers in how to deal with the problem now its here, my argument was always about prevention but as our leaders are more intent in fighting fire with fire and escallating the problem it appears that too is something I can think what I like about but what will be will be.

Back to immigration, when people no longer have a country that they can live in they leave. Let's say that if some foreign power decided they'd had enough of our leaders and bombed the shit out of us so we no longer had homes, chances are we'd want to leave and we'd go to wherever seemed like a safe place. That's how I see what's happened, it's just we're the safe place.

As for education, when I grew up most people saw themselves as Christian, some still do but most are agnostic at best. That's what education does. When I was a kid every other person seemed like a sex case, everyone was getting groped, much worse in lots of cases as time has gone by and the truth has come out. What changed that? Educating people as to what was good behaviour and what wasn't. So we go to incoming people from different cultures. What is acceptable behaviour has to be stressed on arrival. You don't need to do that with most people but it's fair to say that it's worthwhile to do it for those that don't have basic standards of behaviour that we'd expect.

It's a rambling answer but you raised a lot of points that I'm doing my best to remember.

Anyone have any idea who's largely behind these foreign policy decisions, because I personally have no clue! I'm just like Charlie, I don't like to pick sides, and I think mass immigration is perfectly normal, and I think everyone just wants to get on in life, although I have no evidence to support any of my beliefs it's what I FEEEEEL!! But like I said I'm a centrist, and what does any of this matter because I'll be dead before I see the effects anyway lololol, etc etc, and it was inevitable because of Europeans being Europeans and something something oil something something, and Jesus these racists need to be reeducated, if they don't want to be ethnically replaced in their own countries it must be because of some abnormality in their minds.

We're all individuals, folks! (although every other ethnic group in existence thinks collectively and looks out for their own interests), and we were all born EQUUALLL (although I'm non-religious so while it's conceivable that a God would have created us all equally, there's zero reason to believe nature would have, because that's not how nature works, but it's how I FEEEEEEL), what are those people who think differently to me anyway, Nazis? Must be. White people speaking up for themselves is a slippery slope and makes me very uncomfortable because of everything I've been taught -- yes I believe every single mainstream view, but I'm a free thinker; I am a centrist after all.

I don't have to have any firm beliefs, because of my centrism I can listen to all sides without taking the plunge and siding with any. That way I can feel clever and I'm NEVER WRONG! Because people on the fence are never wrong, I can just point the finger at others and tell them how they're wrong. Mass immigration is worth it for the diverse selection of food btw. Yes, there are barricades around the Eiffel Tower right now, and in numerous parts of Germany and elsewhere in Europe, plus music festivals have been cancelled due to fears of sexual assault, but have you ever tasted tikka masala? Our lives would be much worse without it. Power-washing the blood of terror victims off our streets every so often is worth it for the richness and variety of the food we enjoy now.

And if we didn't have people from diverse backgrounds playing for our international football sides, we'd never win the World Cup! Like Germany, Spain, and Italy over the past three World Cups.... well, poor examples because those teams were majority German, Spanish, and Italian, and won, but you know what I mean. I don't know what I mean, but you know what I mean. Well, I just mean that immigration and diversity etc is good NO MATTER WHAT! It's what I've been told, and I don't have the intellectual capacity to challenge that, and it makes me feel good to feel like I'm on the 'right side of history'. The elites agree, and the media agrees, and therefore the mass of people agree, and isn't it nice when we all agree? Those who deviate from that run the risk of being arrested for their beliefs, and that's good because they're CRIMINALS! Nazis off our streets, etc. Hopefully antifa gets their hands on them!

But anyway, on account of my centrist views I really don't support any form of political extremism, although right-wing extremism is much worse than the left variety. On par with ISIS. Did six million Jews die in the Holocaust, and idk how many non-Jews, just so we could slowly slip back into the 1930s like we're doing at present!? Look, my great grandfather didn't die fighting Hitler during WWII just for all these extremists to start talking about this country being a white country, and so on. He didn't die just so we could try to prevent over one million people from crossing the Mediterranean every year who are fleeing wars, and dictators, and unemployment. Women and children and doctors and lawyers. He would be rolling in his grave to see these Nazis rising yet again. My great grandfather fought so we could enjoy many of the freedoms that we have today -- freedom of movement, the EU, diverse recipes; he fought for all of that. And he would be aghast to see anyone trying to take it away from us.

So, in closing, I really haven't thought any of this through, but when you sit on the fence you don't have to. I trust that our politicians know what they're doing (except for everything else they do that I disagree with - cuts affecting the poor and elderly, their shambolic handling of the health and education systems, and so forth), I trust them in *this* area, because I have to, otherwise I'd have to challenge everything I've been told to believe and everything I thought I knew up to this point, and that might trigger an existential crisis in me which I really don't think I could handle, sorry. Mass immigration is part and parcel of living in a globalised world, and if you don't believe that well then you could do with a bit more education couldn't you, bigot? I mean, FFS, it's nearly 2018!

https://www.haaretz.com/news/features/white-man-s-burden-1.14110

'Germany's media failed the public during refugee influx, study claims'
http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/inter...-possibly-biased-towards-refugees-study-finds

URBANUS · Dec 19, 2017

Born to Harangue said:
Anyone have any idea who's largely behind these foreign policy decisions, because I personally have no clue! I'm just like Charlie, I don't like to pick sides, and I think mass immigration is perfectly normal, and I think everyone just wants to get on in life, although I have no evidence to support any of my beliefs it's what I FEEEEEL!! But like I said I'm a centrist, and what does any of this matter because I'll be dead before I see the effects anyway lololol, etc etc, and it was inevitable because of Europeans being Europeans and something something oil something something, and Jesus these racists need to be reeducated, if they don't want to be ethnically replaced in their own countries it must be because of some abnormality in their minds.

We're all individuals, folks! (although every other ethnic group in existence thinks collectively and looks out for their own interests), and we were all born EQUUALLL (although I'm non-religious so while it's conceivable that a God would have created us all equally, there's zero reason to believe nature would have, because that's not how nature works, but it's how I FEEEEEEL), what are those people who think differently to me anyway, Nazis? Must be. White people speaking up for themselves is a slippery slope and makes me very uncomfortable because of everything I've been taught -- yes I believe every single mainstream view, but I'm a free thinker; I am a centrist after all.

I don't have to have any firm beliefs, because of my centrism I can listen to all sides without taking the plunge and siding with any. That way I can feel clever and I'm NEVER WRONG! Because people on the fence are never wrong, I can just point the finger at others and tell them how they're wrong. Mass immigration is worth it for the diverse selection of food btw. Yes, there are barricades around the Eiffel Tower right now, and in numerous parts of Germany and elsewhere in Europe, plus music festivals have been cancelled due to fears of sexual assault, but have you ever tasted tikka masala? Our lives would be much worse without it. Power-washing the blood of terror victims off our streets every so often is worth it for the richness and variety of the food we enjoy now.

And if we didn't have people from diverse backgrounds playing for our international football sides, we'd never win the World Cup! Like Germany, Spain, and Italy over the past three World Cups.... well, poor examples because those teams were majority German, Spanish, and Italian, and won, but you know what I mean. I don't know what I mean, but you know what I mean. Well, I just mean that immigration and diversity etc is good NO MATTER WHAT! It's what I've been told, and I don't have the intellectual capacity to challenge that, and it makes me feel good to feel like I'm on the 'right side of history'. The elites agree, and the media agrees, and therefore the mass of people agree, and isn't it nice when we all agree? Those who deviate from that run the risk of being arrested for their beliefs, and that's good because they're CRIMINALS! Nazis off our streets, etc. Hopefully antifa gets their hands on them!

But anyway, on account of my centrist views I really don't support any form of political extremism, although right-wing extremism is much worse than the left variety. On par with ISIS. Did six million Jews die in the Holocaust, and idk how many non-Jews, just so we could slowly slip back into the 1930s like we're doing at present!? Look, my great grandfather didn't die fighting Hitler during WWII just for all these extremists to start talking about this country being a white country, and so on. He didn't die just so we could try to prevent over one million people from crossing the Mediterranean every year who are fleeing wars, and dictators, and unemployment. Women and children and doctors and lawyers. He would be rolling in his grave to see these Nazis rising yet again. My great grandfather fought so we could enjoy many of the freedoms that we have today -- freedom of movement, the EU, diverse recipes; he fought for all of that. And he would be aghast to see anyone trying to take it away from us.

So, in closing, I really haven't thought any of this through, but when you sit on the fence you don't have to. I trust that our politicians know what they're doing (except for everything else they do that I disagree with - cuts affecting the poor and elderly, their shambolic handling of the health and education systems, and so forth), I trust them in *this* area, because I have to, otherwise I'd have to challenge everything I've been told to believe and everything I thought I knew up to this point, and that might trigger an existential crisis in me which I really don't think I could handle, sorry. Mass immigration is part and parcel of living in a globalised world, and if you don't believe that well then you could do with a bit more education couldn't you, bigot? I mean, FFS, it's nearly 2018!

https://www.haaretz.com/news/features/white-man-s-burden-1.14110
View attachment 43338
View attachment 43340
'Germany's media failed the public during refugee influx, study claims'
http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/inter...-possibly-biased-towards-refugees-study-finds

For your eyes only (God is a humasexual):

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...sweden-to-stop-referring-to-god-as-he-or-lord

Thank you for being so well informed when it comes to the evil media family of Bonnier. I live under their oppression every day.

Bechir Rabani's body to undergo autopsy to determine if he was murderd because he visited the homes of mighty jews in Sweden and investigated Facebook.

URBANUS · Dec 19, 2017

Charlie Cheswick said:
Sorry I didn't see your comment, been lots on here since.

I think I'm quite central in that I don't pick a side, I just say what I see and if that puts me on one side or other that's for other people to decide.

My issue with this story is the blatant things that just don't stack up as I've gone into above. As for immigration, that's something I'm fairly indifferent about. Firstly, whether I care about it or not is neither here nor there, what will be will be regardless of what I think. I do think that our foreign policy has made immigration from the Middle East inevitable. Ditto the raised problem with terrorism and a dodgy Islamic ideology, the two go hand in hand. It goes back to the promotion of it as a tool to fight the USSR in Afghanistan and has grown with our military forays into the Middle East. I haven't got the answers in how to deal with the problem now its here, my argument was always about prevention but as our leaders are more intent in fighting fire with fire and escallating the problem it appears that too is something I can think what I like about but what will be will be.

Back to immigration, when people no longer have a country that they can live in they leave. Let's say that if some foreign power decided they'd had enough of our leaders and bombed the shit out of us so we no longer had homes, chances are we'd want to leave and we'd go to wherever seemed like a safe place. That's how I see what's happened, it's just we're the safe place.

As for education, when I grew up most people saw themselves as Christian, some still do but most are agnostic at best. That's what education does. When I was a kid every other person seemed like a sex case, everyone was getting groped, much worse in lots of cases as time has gone by and the truth has come out. What changed that? Educating people as to what was good behaviour and what wasn't. So we go to incoming people from different cultures. What is acceptable behaviour has to be stressed on arrival. You don't need to do that with most people but it's fair to say that it's worthwhile to do it for those that don't have basic standards of behaviour that we'd expect.

It's a rambling answer but you raised a lot of points that I'm doing my best to remember.

I met a couple the other day who reasoned a bit like you, not in detail but pretty much moving the goal posts as it pleased them. Now the reason why you are them are not seeing things for what they are is because of fear. You and them know the shit will hit the fan pretty bad probably in 2018.

The swedish housing market has started to crash and will in 2018 along with the rest of Europe and other countries in the world. That domino effect will mean loads of people will be laid off work and all of a sudden people have no job and a lot of personal debt.

I value your knowledge and you point out a lot of important things but that is history. There will always be people like you and the couple I met that choose to look at whatever takes the sting out of the currect situation. By doing that you are passively feeding the ongoing problems and making them worse.

I agree with you that nothing can be done (I read your post below this one) and that things will change whatever we do. Education is great but it is also a tool to brainwash people like yourself into refusing to see the whole picture.

I believe self education beats any education where someone tells you what is right and wrong and stuff you with info you only use for a test and then forget about it. Many are the well educated that are so stupid they don't even know how to lace their own shoes.

No one will escape what is coming and just like you I absolutely hated guys trying to be macho who used women as they chose. I think though that those problems and the problems now are different in that a religion have leaders that tell their believers to do what they do to gain power and spread fear.

So far they have actually done a good at job at what they do but nothing lasts forever and I think we both know we are waiting for the spark to light the fire and after that there is no return.

Me joking about women in another thread was a sick joke only meant to provoke some who will believe anything you tell them. I think the view of the man in the street passed its best sell by date many centuries ago so enjoy that drink with the missus and the defeats and relegations of your poxy little has been club.

With love from Sweden.

URBANUS · Dec 19, 2017

URBANUS said:
For your eyes only (God is a humasexual):

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...sweden-to-stop-referring-to-god-as-he-or-lord

Thank you for being so well informed when it comes to the evil media family of Bonnier. I live under their oppression every day.

Bechir Rabani's body to undergo autopsy to determine if he was murderd because he visited the homes of mighty jews in Sweden and investigated Facebook.

Antje Jackele'n or Antichrist Jackele'n as we call the archbishop is married to a man that was a Stasi agent. They have managed to change the swedish church in a very short space of time and turned it into something else than it used to be.

I left the state church in the 90's.

URBANUS · Dec 19, 2017

Born to Harangue said:
Anyone have any idea who's largely behind these foreign policy decisions, because I personally have no clue! I'm just like Charlie, I don't like to pick sides, and I think mass immigration is perfectly normal, and I think everyone just wants to get on in life, although I have no evidence to support any of my beliefs it's what I FEEEEEL!! But like I said I'm a centrist, and what does any of this matter because I'll be dead before I see the effects anyway lololol, etc etc, and it was inevitable because of Europeans being Europeans and something something oil something something, and Jesus these racists need to be reeducated, if they don't want to be ethnically replaced in their own countries it must be because of some abnormality in their minds.

We're all individuals, folks! (although every other ethnic group in existence thinks collectively and looks out for their own interests), and we were all born EQUUALLL (although I'm non-religious so while it's conceivable that a God would have created us all equally, there's zero reason to believe nature would have, because that's not how nature works, but it's how I FEEEEEEL), what are those people who think differently to me anyway, Nazis? Must be. White people speaking up for themselves is a slippery slope and makes me very uncomfortable because of everything I've been taught -- yes I believe every single mainstream view, but I'm a free thinker; I am a centrist after all.

I don't have to have any firm beliefs, because of my centrism I can listen to all sides without taking the plunge and siding with any. That way I can feel clever and I'm NEVER WRONG! Because people on the fence are never wrong, I can just point the finger at others and tell them how they're wrong. Mass immigration is worth it for the diverse selection of food btw. Yes, there are barricades around the Eiffel Tower right now, and in numerous parts of Germany and elsewhere in Europe, plus music festivals have been cancelled due to fears of sexual assault, but have you ever tasted tikka masala? Our lives would be much worse without it. Power-washing the blood of terror victims off our streets every so often is worth it for the richness and variety of the food we enjoy now.

And if we didn't have people from diverse backgrounds playing for our international football sides, we'd never win the World Cup! Like Germany, Spain, and Italy over the past three World Cups.... well, poor examples because those teams were majority German, Spanish, and Italian, and won, but you know what I mean. I don't know what I mean, but you know what I mean. Well, I just mean that immigration and diversity etc is good NO MATTER WHAT! It's what I've been told, and I don't have the intellectual capacity to challenge that, and it makes me feel good to feel like I'm on the 'right side of history'. The elites agree, and the media agrees, and therefore the mass of people agree, and isn't it nice when we all agree? Those who deviate from that run the risk of being arrested for their beliefs, and that's good because they're CRIMINALS! Nazis off our streets, etc. Hopefully antifa gets their hands on them!

But anyway, on account of my centrist views I really don't support any form of political extremism, although right-wing extremism is much worse than the left variety. On par with ISIS. Did six million Jews die in the Holocaust, and idk how many non-Jews, just so we could slowly slip back into the 1930s like we're doing at present!? Look, my great grandfather didn't die fighting Hitler during WWII just for all these extremists to start talking about this country being a white country, and so on. He didn't die just so we could try to prevent over one million people from crossing the Mediterranean every year who are fleeing wars, and dictators, and unemployment. Women and children and doctors and lawyers. He would be rolling in his grave to see these Nazis rising yet again. My great grandfather fought so we could enjoy many of the freedoms that we have today -- freedom of movement, the EU, diverse recipes; he fought for all of that. And he would be aghast to see anyone trying to take it away from us.

So, in closing, I really haven't thought any of this through, but when you sit on the fence you don't have to. I trust that our politicians know what they're doing (except for everything else they do that I disagree with - cuts affecting the poor and elderly, their shambolic handling of the health and education systems, and so forth), I trust them in *this* area, because I have to, otherwise I'd have to challenge everything I've been told to believe and everything I thought I knew up to this point, and that might trigger an existential crisis in me which I really don't think I could handle, sorry. Mass immigration is part and parcel of living in a globalised world, and if you don't believe that well then you could do with a bit more education couldn't you, bigot? I mean, FFS, it's nearly 2018!

https://www.haaretz.com/news/features/white-man-s-burden-1.14110
View attachment 43338
View attachment 43340
'Germany's media failed the public during refugee influx, study claims'
http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/inter...-possibly-biased-towards-refugees-study-finds

https://www.thelocal.se/20171218/ma...-warning-women-not-to-go-out-alone-after-dark

https://www.thelocal.se/20171206/the-local-interviews-terror-expert-magnus-ranstorp-2017

URBANUS · Dec 19, 2017

URBANUS said:
https://www.thelocal.se/20171218/ma...-warning-women-not-to-go-out-alone-after-dark

https://www.thelocal.se/20171206/the-local-interviews-terror-expert-magnus-ranstorp-2017

Our terror expert is, as you can see, denying most things that the wider public already know as facts. These people do not work against terrorism but promote it and use it and in the end they blame Putin for absolutely everything.

No wonder I am seeking refuge in Russia in 2018.

Tera · Dec 19, 2017

Pokey said:
Well it sounds like from this thread that this is the final nail in the coffin for a lot of people, moderators included! I would hope then, if you think of yourselves as well adjusted people that this is the last time we’ll see a lot of you posting around here. Afterall, if this evil man has nothing left to offer you and he outrages you so much, why not move on to greener pastures and fill your life with more positive things? To continue to hang around and beat a dead horse and talk over and over about how someone is so awful seems unhealthy, counterproductive and redundant. It would say a lot more about you than it does about Morrissey. So, yeah, I guess this is goodbye for a lot of you!

Because a lot of people, myself included I would like to think, can separate the man and the music.
I still love hearing him sing, I just don't enjoy it as much when he talks!

BrummieBoy · Dec 19, 2017

URBANUS said:
Our terror expert is, as you can see, denying most things that the wider public already know as facts. These people do not work against terrorism but promote it and use it and in the end they blame Putin for absolutely everything.

No wonder I am seeking refuge in Russia in 2018.

URBANUS said:
https://www.thelocal.se/20171218/ma...-warning-women-not-to-go-out-alone-after-dark

https://www.thelocal.se/20171206/the-local-interviews-terror-expert-magnus-ranstorp-2017

The abject failures of EUropean states to organise vetting of desperate migrants and refugees & weed out known criminals & jihadis cannot be used as an excuse to stigmatise all new arrivals. The failure to allow Swedish and German police to slam down the hammer on sexual abuse in public reflects entirely on the politicians boxing them in, not on the law-abiding majority of new arrivals who are aghast at the situation.

Charlie Cheswick · Dec 19, 2017

URBANUS said:
I met a couple the other day who reasoned a bit like you, not in detail but pretty much moving the goal posts as it pleased them. Now the reason why you are them are not seeing things for what they are is because of fear. You and them know the shit will hit the fan pretty bad probably in 2018.

The swedish housing market has started to crash and will in 2018 along with the rest of Europe and other countries in the world. That domino effect will mean loads of people will be laid off work and all of a sudden people have no job and a lot of personal debt.

I value your knowledge and you point out a lot of important things but that is history. There will always be people like you and the couple I met that choose to look at whatever takes the sting out of the currect situation. By doing that you are passively feeding the ongoing problems and making them worse.

I agree with you that nothing can be done (I read your post below this one) and that things will change whatever we do. Education is great but it is also a tool to brainwash people like yourself into refusing to see the whole picture.

I believe self education beats any education where someone tells you what is right and wrong and stuff you with info you only use for a test and then forget about it. Many are the well educated that are so stupid they don't even know how to lace their own shoes.

No one will escape what is coming and just like you I absolutely hated guys trying to be macho who used women as they chose. I think though that those problems and the problems now are different in that a religion have leaders that tell their believers to do what they do to gain power and spread fear.

So far they have actually done a good at job at what they do but nothing lasts forever and I think we both know we are waiting for the spark to light the fire and after that there is no return.

Me joking about women in another thread was a sick joke only meant to provoke some who will believe anything you tell them. I think the view of the man in the street passed its best sell by date many centuries ago so enjoy that drink with the missus and the defeats and relegations of your poxy little has been club.

With love from Sweden.

I should clarify I don't live in fear - of anything. If you all want to believe that you can defeat an ideology with anything other than education I wish you good luck.

URBANUS · Dec 19, 2017

Charlie Cheswick said:
I should clarify I don't live in fear - of anything. If you all want to believe that you can defeat an ideology with anything other than education I wish you good luck.

We will never forget the well read men and women of the trenches that defeated the nazis with education.

Der Spiegel audio file of Morrissey interview released

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Timeplease!

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It's all good

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Last of the famous international screw ups.

Last of the famous international screw ups.

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Last of the famous international screw ups.

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~~~

URBANUS

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Educated Criminal

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