Binyamina-Giv'at Ada - Zappa Amphi Shuni (July 2, 2023) post-show

Thewlis · Jul 4, 2023

Bluebirds said:
He has lost a lot of serious, long-term fans. I should know. I can separate the (increasingly moribund) art from the artist but others struggle to do that and I completely understand why.
Such a shame, we all saw the epic reception Rick Astley and The Blossoms singing songs by The Smiths at Glastonbury received.

Well he could always have chosen to do so, a Smiths like tour or a Vauxhall or Viva Hate-tour.

Yet he’s never been a crowd pleaser, has he?
He always plays just what he likes and not what the audience wants to hear. That’s his prerogative.

Luxo · Jul 4, 2023

Thewlis said:
But then you fail to mention ‘to be on Top of the Pops these days one has, by law, to be black’ or the skinhead imagery of the Our Frank video, or the lines ‘Bengali, shelve your Western plans, cause life is hard enough when you belong here’.

Moz has always been contrarian and definitely never was left or right. He always wanted to be unclear and controversial about his politics, just like about his sexuality, and he succeeded in doing so.

The revisionist theory of some former fans that he was somehow a spokesperson for the left back in the day is hilarious and so untrue.

I didn't say those things were not right wing statements, I just answered the question e.g. what made people think they were left wing. No revisionism here, it's just not about the things you mentioned.

Luxo · Jul 4, 2023

Luxo said:
I didn't say those things were not right wing statements, I just answered the question e.g. what made people think they were left wing. No revisionism here, it's just not about the things you mentioned.

Also, while most of those are clearly comments you'd expect to hear from someone who is right wing, can we not conflate skinheads with racism, like some f***ing soft, reactionary boomers?

The skinhead culture is derived from working class boys and girls embracing the imagery and music of Jamaican immigrants. While there are some racist skinheads, these are the outlier. There's non-political skins, SHARPs, explicitly lefty skins, skins just there for a good time. It's not some homogenous group, all doing Nazi salutes and voting for the NF. That's an awful characterisation of an interesting sub-culture with an interesting history of embracing diversity and commonality with ethnic minorities, not just one of boneheads and their white laces

Jock · Jul 4, 2023

How is all of this Jesse’s fault?

Bluebirds · Jul 4, 2023

Thewlis said:
Well he could always have chosen to do so, a Smiths like tour or a Vauxhall or Viva Hate-tour.

Yet he’s never been a crowd pleaser, has he?
He always plays just what he likes and not what the audience wants to hear. That’s his prerogative

Isn't this tour meant to be 40 years of Morrissey? Regardless I agree he has never been 'a crowd-pleaser' but he is actively turning a significant proportion of his audience against him with his alt-right conspiracy gubbins. The dull, repetitive setlists do not help neither. Nor, it seems, does losing half the band from the previous tour.
I won't stick the boot on like others have here as that is malicious but the only thing realistically left at this stage is for Morrissey to do a Greatest Hits tour rather than peddling most of his new material that is plain gash.

gordyboy9 · Jul 4, 2023

theres a show tonight,lets see what happens before some people on here start ripping up their tickets for the uk tour.looking forward to seeing how the new girls settle in especially the guitarist who is standing where alain whyte and boz boorer stood for decades,i think its refreshing to change band members,who doesnt get bored of people you work with now and again.

Phranc & Open · Jul 4, 2023

Bluebirds said:
Isn't this tour meant to be 40 years of Morrissey? Regardless I agree he has never been 'a crowd-pleaser' but he is actively turning a significant proportion of his audience against him with his alt-right conspiracy gubbins. The dull, repetitive setlists do not help neither.

As eager defense attorneys have cleverly noted, the two Israel shows are not an official part of the "40 years of Morrissey" celebrations. So expect "Roy's Keen" or "I'd love to" in Liverpool, Leeds or Limahl.

Johan de Witt · Jul 4, 2023

Luxo said:
Also, while most of those are clearly comments you'd expect to hear from someone who is right wing, can we not conflate skinheads with racism, like some f***ing soft, reactionary boomers?

The skinhead culture is derived from working class boys and girls embracing the imagery and music of Jamaican immigrants. While there are some racist skinheads, these are the outlier. There's non-political skins, SHARPs, explicitly lefty skins, skins just there for a good time. It's not some homogenous group, all doing Nazi salutes and voting for the NF. That's an awful characterisation of an interesting sub-culture with an interesting history of embracing diversity and commonality with ethnic minorities, not just one of boneheads and their white laces

True, but projecting skinhead imagery on a screen behind you, draping oneself in the Union Jack and singing 'England for the English' is another thing entirely :lbf:

Johan de Witt · Jul 4, 2023

Bluebirds said:
Isn't this tour meant to be 40 years of Morrissey? Regardless I agree he has never been 'a crowd-pleaser' but he is actively turning a significant proportion of his audience against him with his alt-right conspiracy gubbins. The dull, repetitive setlists do not help neither. Nor, it seems, does losing half the band from the previous tour.
I won't stick the boot on like others have here as that is malicious but the only thing realistically left at this stage is for Morrissey to do a Greatest Hits tour rather than peddling most of his new material that is plain gash.

He isn't playing so much new material on this tour or the last one. Just a handful of songs.
75 per cent of what he is playing now is from the 80s/90s and 00s.

Barking · Jul 4, 2023

Johnnie Ray said:
Against my better judgement, I bought Dog and it definitely is a dog.

Johnnie: I doubt that very much.
Dogs generally don't sound awful (except basset hounds when they have a sore throat). It was probably just a bad album.
I would check for you but my betterbetter judgment says "no wé!"

Thewlis said:
50,000 views

Yes sorry. It was all me (on holiday), trying to understand what Paris had done to deserve this. Surely it can't have been that bad? :tears:

I expect to reach 100000 views by nap time.

I was thinking, rather than annoying people abroad, could Morrissey explore the possibility that there was an islamist terrorist disguised as a nun at Bon Secours in Ireland?
I think the world is waiting for some explanation. How else could you explain the deaths of so many babies? Surely it's not systemic evil organized by the Catlick Church and internalized by frustrated religious wimin torturing their own kind? Now that would be a crazy conspiracy theory, wouldn't it? It's not a cold hand you would feel then! I think your heart would stop for a while then you would throw up your intestines then pass out and wake up in Hell with crazy priests and nuns dancing and shrieking dementedly around you with Weinstein and the Donald and a couple of stern Popes and maybe an official from Poland looking on.

Imagine if any of this was real! Imagine Morrissey forgetting his horror of caves and babies for a second and bravely tackling the subject, (unless his ma forbid him to of course)! Imagine the lyrics! The rhymes! The repetitions! The shocking revelations! The press reactions!

(The Magdalene Sisters are asking if Jesse can compose a little something about them, too. They tink he's hawt.)

( yeah well.)

Surface · Jul 4, 2023

gordyboy9 said:
theres a show tonight,lets see what happens before some people on here start ripping up their tickets for the uk tour.looking forward to seeing how the new girls settle in especially the guitarist who is standing where alain whyte and boz boorer stood for decades,i think its refreshing to change band members,who doesnt get bored of people you work with now and again.

I'm off to see Pulp tonight on their “This is what we do for an encore,” Tour at Castlefield Bowl, really looking forward to it.

Part of the review of Finsbury Park - Even the most of optimistic of observers wouldn’t have wagered in 1993 that thirty years later Pulp would be playing to crowds of 45,000 people.

Pulp At Finsbury Park Review: Showmanship, Sleaze And A Barrage Of Britpop Hits

Pulp and Jarvis Cocker's Britpop nostalgia still has the frisson of sex and subversion.

www.mojo4music.com

Thewlis · Jul 4, 2023

Luxo said:
I didn't say those things were not right wing statements, I just answered the question e.g. what made people think they were left wing. No revisionism here, it's just not about the things you mentioned.

Yes, so the people who thought he was left wing were not really paying attention.

Surface said:
I'm off to see Pulp tonight on their “This is what we do for an encore,” Tour at Castlefield Bowl, really looking forward to it.

Part of the review of Finsbury Park - Even the most of optimistic of observers wouldn’t have wagered in 1993 that thirty years later Pulp would be playing to crowds of 45,000 people.

Pulp At Finsbury Park Review: Showmanship, Sleaze And A Barrage Of Britpop Hits

Pulp and Jarvis Cocker's Britpop nostalgia still has the frisson of sex and subversion.

www.mojo4music.com

That’s slightly off-topic

Enjoy! Saw them in ‘93 in front of 1200 people here in town. Always liked them, but really not that fond of big nostalgia tours.

gordyboy9 · Jul 4, 2023

Surface said:
I'm off to see Pulp tonight on their “This is what we do for an encore,” Tour at Castlefield Bowl, really looking forward to it.

Part of the review of Finsbury Park - Even the most of optimistic of observers wouldn’t have wagered in 1993 that thirty years later Pulp would be playing to crowds of 45,000 people.

Pulp At Finsbury Park Review: Showmanship, Sleaze And A Barrage Of Britpop Hits

Pulp and Jarvis Cocker's Britpop nostalgia still has the frisson of sex and subversion.

www.mojo4music.com

enjoy.do you think jarvis will have his yearly bath,guy looks filthy.

Surface · Jul 4, 2023

gordyboy9 said:
enjoy.do you think jarvis will have his yearly bath,guy looks filthy.

Doubt it, he always seems to look the same.

Rufusindigo · Jul 4, 2023

Johnnie Ray said:
Not an alcoholic? You are in the denial stage regarding Morrissey's alcoholism.

I don't think anyone can truly diagnose anyone else - that's a judgement only M can make - and there may be other issues at play here, but if that were the case it might be a blessing in disguise. If he were to get sober - it would offer a pathway back, draw a line between past and present and some kind of explanation for the lack of judgement in many areas.

Intheknow · Jul 4, 2023

Morrissey is no more an alcoholic now than he was in the smiths. Basically, he’s not. The man is allowed a drink. He’s earned his money and it’s up to him how he spends it. What went wrong was moving to America all those years ago. Writing in a country where he’s an alien. When writing in the UK, there’s a rawness to be spoken about. Grey skies, humdrum towns etc.

Deleted member 29227 · Jul 4, 2023

Like most blokes, Moz has a few pints & a few G&Ts whenever he wishes, & all of a sudden the puritans appear & claim he's suffering from alcoholism...
'Every -ist and every -ism
Thrown my way to stay...'
Good grief. Complete knobs, all.

Les Tameside · Jul 4, 2023

In principle, Morrissey has a perfectly viable career—complete with scope to indulge his scepticism about ‘accepted’ narratives.

Judging by his deeds, he seems at ease with the exchange of fame for notoriety. Some call it ‘doubling-down’, others just enjoy the great gigs and venues that come with the territory.

Ultimately, it’s bottomed out and it’s still fun for thousands. And lucrative for a few others.

In truth, I had to come to terms with unremarkable lyrics when I heard Morrissey share ‘I see the world, It makes me puke’—twice in thirty seconds.

marred · Jul 4, 2023

I didn't realise Tobias only wrote one track on WMTWD leaving the rest up to Manzur and Whyte.

marred · Jul 4, 2023

MrMajeika said:
Alma Matters played!

When is it not played?

Binyamina-Giv'at Ada - Zappa Amphi Shuni (July 2, 2023) post-show

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