The Guardian: "Who’s bad? From Michael Jackson to David Bowie, why are some stars uncancellable" by Tim Jonze - tiny Moz mention (April 1, 2024)

Who’s bad? From Michael Jackson to David Bowie, why are some stars uncancellable?

A Michael Jackson jukebox musical has just opened – with no mention of sexual allegations – and a biopic is coming. What makes some celebrities immune to cancel culture? We examine who gets ostracised and who doesn’t

www.theguardian.com

Excerpt:

How do you grapple with cases in which there are conflicting views and grey areas? Does Morrissey’s embrace of far-right political groups such as For Britain have to be weighed on some kind of moral scale against Johnny Marr’s progressive values, to work out if the Smiths are cancelled? Should Benjamin Zephaniah be shunned for being violent towards a former girlfriend, or is he excused because he was the one who wrote about it, expressing regret and the need to be better? Before long, my list of factors had spiralled into a tangle of nuances and contradictions.

 

[Surface]

Are you really the same person you were 15 years ago? Jesus, you must have a very closed mind and outlook on life if you have not learned anything new and matured as a human being. I am a very different person from the person I was 15 years ago.

Of course my outlook on life has changed but my core beliefs are still the same.

 

[Surface]

Weren't Muslims child trafficking, and he was speaking up about that? That is really all I know about Tommy Robinson.
The Mexicans are child trafficking here, and when Trump was president and we were holding kids on the border, we were DNA testing them to make sure they were with or going to relatives and the liberals shut that down very fast, I think there was a court order to release them before they could all be tested, and it's certain some of them were with traffickers. The Mexicans also have rape gangs, but we are supposed to ignore it. They break into houses and rape little girls in their beds, nothing to see here.

Yes he has done that but he has a criminal record going back as far as 2003

He applied to study aircraft engineering at Luton Airport after leaving school: "I got an apprenticeship 600 people applied for, and they took four people on." He qualified in 2003 after five years of study, but lost his job when he was convicted of assaulting an off-duty police officer in a drunken argument.[6] He served a 12-month prison sentence.[8

 

[Redacted]

Yes he has done that but he has a criminal record going back as far as 2003

He applied to study aircraft engineering at Luton Airport after leaving school: "I got an apprenticeship 600 people applied for, and they took four people on." He qualified in 2003 after five years of study, but lost his job when he was convicted of assaulting an off-duty police officer in a drunken argument.[6] He served a 12-month prison sentence.[8

Thank you, I know people said he was a criminal but I was not quite sure what he did

 

[gashonthenail]

Thank you, I know people said he was a criminal but I was not quite sure what he did

This (oldish) article gives a fairly good summary of the man, from a soft left perspective.

How Tommy Robinson became a folk hero for the global alt-right

Since his imprisonment for contempt of court, the former EDL leader has been hailed by far right supporters as a free speech martyr.

www.newstatesman.com

 

[Les Tameside]

Yes he has done that but he has a criminal record going back as far as 2003

He applied to study aircraft engineering at Luton Airport after leaving school: "I got an apprenticeship 600 people applied for, and they took four people on." He qualified in 2003 after five years of study, but lost his job when he was convicted of assaulting an off-duty police officer in a drunken argument.[6] He served a 12-month prison sentence.[8

Lost his job, nearly killed a copper, turned hostile at a turnstile, and when he fell on the floor he drank more?

What could Morrissey possibly see in him?

 

[Malarkey]

Oh, my.

"Here is a lot of information about Tommy Robinson"

"I have more information about Tommy Robinson, but also concerns"

"I understand your concerns. Here is more information about Tommy Robinson "

"Thank you. But I have other concerns. And more information about Tommy Robinson"

"I also understand these concerns. But will impart more information about folk hero Tommy Robinson"

"Thank you. Isn't it amazing we're all on this Tommy Robinson thread on a music site. What are the chances. Isn't the woke left terrible. I will just leave this information about Tommy Robinson here".

"Thank you. Tommy Robinson ".

It's the politeness that's so disturbing & comical.

 

[Redacted]

Oh, my.

"Here is a lot of information about Tommy Robinson"

"I have more information about Tommy Robinson, but also concerns"

"I understand your concerns. Here is more information about Tommy Robinson "

"Thank you. But I have other concerns. And more information about Tommy Robinson"

"I also understand these concerns. But will impart more information about folk hero Tommy Robinson"

"Thank you. Isn't it amazing we're all on this Tommy Robinson thread on a music site. What are the chances. Isn't the woke left terrible. I will just leave this information about Tommy Robinson here".

"Thank you. Tommy Robinson ".

It's the politeness that's so disturbing & comical.

Should everyone be an asshole who doxes like you?

 

[gashonthenail]

Ironic of course that this conversation is taking place as Scotland, part of the UK, takes a step back into the dark ages with its new 'hate speech' law. The home of the European enlightenment. Morrissey had better be careful - if he ever steps foot in Scotland again, he could be arrested for spreading 'hate'. The law allows for up to 7 years in prison. And the law doesn't even require that there is evidence you intended to spread hate, only that what you said was likely to spread hate. Scary stuff. Welcome to 2024. Progressive, indeed.

 

[Born to Harangue]

There's a trail of posts & threads all over the internet.

Mozambiguous has a lot to answer for as well (if he’s still alive, that is).



Wait a minute! ‘Sookie R. Wang’, an anagram of ‘Signora Woke’!? What am I seeing here??

I chose the name 'Signora Woke' because it was an anagram of... nevermind. You don't need to go down that rabbit hole, Alice. Or should I call you Nancy Drew?

 

[Malarkey]

I'm sure you'll bring us all the vital 'Morrissey in an imaginary Scottish jail' news.

 

[TheSmiths_1985]

I'm sure you'll bring us all the vital 'Morrissey in an imaginary Scottish jail' news.

You’re the one who introduced the whole “Morrissey prison sex” fantasy, love.

 

[gordyboy9]

It was in his June 2018 interview with Dodwell, specifically this part here:

"Anne Marie Waters seeks open discussion about all aspects of modern Britain, whereas other parties will not allow diverse opinion. She is like a humane version of Thatcher ... if such a concept could be. She is absolute leadership, she doesn't read from a script, she believes in British heritage, freedom of speech, and she wants everyone in the UK to live under the same law. I find this compelling, now, because it's very obvious that Labour or the Tories do not believe in free speech... I mean, look at the shocking treatment of Tommy Robinson..."

I wouldn't say, there, that he's openly "supporting" Robinson, more pointing out that certain ideas/debates/discussions get shut down in the UK these days, and using Robinson as an example of that. (Although, of course, if Morrissey really disagreed with Robinson's politics then he should have said that, which he didn't.)

freedom of speech,scottish people have lost their right to free speech with the new hate crime bill which came into power yesterday,shocking in this day and age.

 

[gordyboy9]

Ironic of course that this conversation is taking place as Scotland, part of the UK, takes a step back into the dark ages with its new 'hate speech' law. The home of the European enlightenment. Morrissey had better be careful - if he ever steps foot in Scotland again, he could be arrested for spreading 'hate'. The law allows for up to 7 years in prison. And the law doesn't even require that there is evidence you intended to spread hate, only that what you said was likely to spread hate. Scary stuff. Welcome to 2024. Progressive, indeed.

iv just posted something similar,sturgeon throws the hand grenade and the scottish peole are left to deal with the consequences.gash no one is going to jail,the jails are full,it will be a slap on the wrist,a boot up the arse or a fine.thats why jk rowling said arrest me.

 

[gashonthenail]

iv just posted something similar,sturgeon throws the hand grenade and the scottish peole are left to deal with the consequences.gash no one is going to jail,the jails are full,it will be a slap on the wrist,a boot up the arse or a fine.thats why jk rowling said arrest me.

I am sure you're right, Gordy. The point of laws of this nature is that the process is the punishment. The process of having police officers come to your home, arrest you, and interview you under caution - all designed to put people off speaking up in the first place.

 

[gordyboy9]

I am sure you're right, Gordy. The point of laws of this nature is that the process is the punishment. The process of having police officers come to your home, arrest you, and interview you under caution - all designed to put people off speaking up in the first place.

wonder which comedian will be the first to be carted off to the cop shop after a gig,it will happen.
on sunday there will be 50,000 huns singing about killing catholics,will there be one arrest,nope.

 

[TheSmiths_1985]

wonder which comedian will be the first to be carted off to the cop shop after a gig,it will happen.
on sunday there will be 50,000 huns singing about killing catholics,will there be one arrest,nope.

Gordy, it might be you if you keep using the word “huns”

 

[gordyboy9]

Gordy, it might be you if you keep using the word “huns”

prison-3 meals a day and as much sex as you want.

 

[TheSmiths_1985]

prison-3 meals a day and as much sex as you want.

You don’t have to tell me. I’m a hardened criminal.

 

[goinghome]

So - fans weren't just reacting to what he said - they were reacting to the hacks saying this was the final proof that he was a racist.

And Brummie was on the 2017 thread posting the crank-fraud thing he'd been posting for YEARS before that.

I agree that hacks influence fans' thinking. But the crank-fraud thing; could you be more specific please?

You weren't exactly being subtle - but really? Another Robinson fanboy.

Wow! Imagine extrapolating in such an absolutist way. And on top of misreading, the gruff and fractious dismissal, reminiscent of the narcissistic authoritarianism seen in someone like Trump. You never can tell about people.

Btw, have you listened to the third episode of Colin Brown's Mozzcast? (Sorry I can't stay annoyed with you for long.) Malarkey is thanked for providing loads of very instructive background material in folk-devil.com -

Colin's a genuine perceptive fan kindly doing a service orienting other fans.

Robinson has been convicted for multiple crimes involving violence, stalking, financial and immigration fraud, drug possession, public order offences, and contempt of court.#

Immigration fraud? That's unexpected.

On 22 January 2024, at Westminster Magistrates’ Court, Robinson denied the Section 35 charge claiming he attended the march as a journalist. The District Judge set a trial for 22 April with Robinson's application to prevent the publication of address denied. The Metropolitan Police claimed Robinson "resisted as officers attempted to put him in handcuffs" and "was warned repeatedly before PAVA spray was used".[220]

Whatever about other incidents, these offences are negligible, esp. considering recent changes in UK laws to suppress protestors; all the better to target and make monsters out of people like him.

Oh, my.

"Here is a lot of information about Tommy Robinson"

It's the politeness that's so disturbing & comical.

You reckon he should be hanged, drawn and quartered? You think we should all be cancelled by being curious about someone who has become a figure of cultural interest, that has a minor appeal to help understand these divisive times? Is it only the Tim Jonzes of the world that are allowed to mention him without condemnation? Is that not a simplistic stance? Although I guess Morrissey would be well advised at this stage to keep his gaze averted and stay otherwise engaged.

iv just posted something similar,sturgeon throws the hand grenade and the scottish peole are left to deal with the consequences.gash no one is going to jail,the jails are full,it will be a slap on the wrist,a boot up the arse or a fine.thats why jk rowling said arrest me.

The jail system's been gamed, so that no matter what certain people do, they'll never end up there, as others are booted in for daring to breathe

Gordy, it might be you if you keep using the word “huns”

He means 'honey buns', your Honour.

 

[TheSmiths_1985]

He means 'honey buns', your Honour.

No. He’s just being offensive. Maybe he hasn’t felt the negative effects of such labels. Lucky him. Some of us have.