Morrissey: "Current feminism does not help our societies and makes masculinism retaliate" - Culto

I will preface this article with a couple of caveats: firstly, it has gone through translate and secondly, context and details are lacking. It should be noted that the title is part of one question asked and not the main topic - it is a bit misleading. Only a few questions with lots of commentary/background.

In Culto (part of La Tercera), by Andrés del Real (29th July, 2018):

Morrissey: "Current feminism does not help our societies and makes masculinism retaliate"

Click the spoiler to see the full article in Google translated English:
Morrissey: "Current feminism does not help our societies and makes masculinism retaliate"

How does a celebrity adapt to the times? Probably not being Morrissey, who, true to his style and before his return to Chile, shoots against modern feminism, the English press and "the culture of the negation of the left".
Last month, an indeterminate number of English self-styled "former admirers of Morrissey" announced on social networks a party against racism in Manchester, set for the same night that the British artist, his exidolo, would come to the city with the tour promotional of his most recent album, Low in high school. The reason? The statements that the former Smith of The Smiths had made days before, taking pity on the situation of the founder of the movement of extreme right English Defense League, Tommy Robinson, sentenced to 13 months in prison for contempt of court. Coincidence or not, days before the shows, the singer announced the cancellation of his dates in Manchester and all the rest of his European tour, due to "logistical problems".

The episode is added to the increasingly extensive list of polemics starring the soloist, who with the same voice with which for decades has captivated different generations of followers in search of an answer to their torments and depressions, has also got into a series of problems and controversies, for statements against the British monarchy -one of its favorite targets-, multicultural Europe and immigration, and even the #metoo feminist movement, relativizing the denunciations against Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey, among others. His verbal incontinence seems to go against the current tendency of his colleagues, quick to bend to all the causes that drive certain opinion leaders and many of their own followers.

But even the sharpest language at some point knows when to stop, and Steven Patrick Morrissey is no exception: consulted by Worship about what happened in Manchester, the musician opts for silence. It is the only answer that he decides to omit from a questionnaire sent via mail at his request, in which, before launching a series of darts against various causes and modern institutions, he gives praise to the Chilean public.

"It's always great for me to go to Chile. I feel that I am valued there as a serious artist, rather than as mere entertainment for the media,"

says the 59-year-old soloist, once dubbed by the press of his country as "The Pope of Depression", from of the semi-divine cult that generates its sensitive and enlightened voice, which unleashes extreme and conflicting passions. A church that in Chile, despite its history of controversy, the canceled tours and the headaches that suppose for the producers their vegan demands and their particular character -recognized by the former director of the Viña Festival, Álex Hernández, who asked that the Briton "I hope he does not come back" - he still has a respectable legion of faithful, as the six presentations that the artist accumulates in the country prove,

- In recent years, many of his statements to the press have generated controversy, including rejection and even campaigns against him. Do you feel that in these times it is difficult to express a different opinion to the predominant or politically incorrect current? Is it difficult today to be critical of modern life?

- It is difficult in England, where all the written press is controlled by the left, which does not want an open debate or a different opinion. The left is closed minded and works very hard to maintain a culture of denial. If you do not agree with the left, you are massacred in the press for being a racist fanatic, your public is ridiculed and every effort is made to silence you. If you question Islam or multiculturalism, the BBC radio will not reproduce your music because Islam is now a dominant ideology in the United Kingdom. I oppose halal killing [a type of preparation of animal flesh according to Islamic law] as well as I oppose any killing of animals, and that is the reason why the "Loony Left" [term with which the European extreme left is pejoratively called in certain sectors of the United Kingdom] has tried to destroy me. My views are not controversial, but if you question Islam you can be sent to jail without a trial. This is Soviet Britain, it's very real, and it's too big a problem to take over.

- Is feminism a topic that worries or generates a particular opinion? Do you think that musicians and artists in general have the responsibility to express a position on this topic today?

-I discovered feminism when I was 14 years old. By then, it was the answer to everything, because it freed all people, not just women. I read And Jill Came Tumbling After (Judith Stacey), The Female Eunuch (Germaine Greer), Women and Madness(Phyllis Chesler) and they changed my point of view. Modern feminism is not the same because it seems to aspire to "whatever men do," and that seems to be enough. Therefore, it becomes a great success, for example, to have a female football team or a group of girls in a boy scout club. The original goal of feminism was to move towards a higher intellectual plane, but now it only seems to want to occupy masculine positions and receive male aggression. It does not help our societies and, on the contrary, it causes masculinism to retaliate. Female leaders in Germany and the United Kingdom have made a mess of those countries, and this does not help modern feminism either. In all matters what I ask of the people is that they think for themselves. Collect your own material and you will reach your own conclusions. It is easy. Just stop watching the news!

Music does not change the world
The criticisms of the voice of "How soon is now?" To the media are not new and have increased in the last time. Answering through his email seems to be the way he chose to communicate publicly, after he himself announced, last December during a concert in Germany, his decision to stop giving interviews to the written press, after accusing the newspaper Der Spiegel twisted his words in an interview in which, among other things, he would have indicated that the actor Kevin Spacey has been "unnecessarily attacked" after accusations of sexual abuse against him, and even that he would kill the president of the United States, Donald Trump, if the opportunity were given.

But it has been the media in his country that have responded the hardest to the soloist. His eleventh solo album, Low in high school(2017), perhaps the most overtly political work of his discography, was warmly received by the specialized critics. And while an opinion column in The Guardian newspaper a few weeks ago called simply to "stop listening" to Morrissey's music, NME magazine this month published the story of Johnny Turner, a guy who imitates the singer in a tribute band to The Smiths, who confessed that these days people stop him in the street and contact him on social networks to insult him and threaten him if he supports the controversial sayings of his idol. If before being a fan of "Moz" was tantamount to declaring a misfit, today, in a time of greater sensitivity to certain causes postponed and in which many young people have chosen to "veto" their social networks to celebrities who do not share their opinions ,

- In this era of musical consumption via streaming, social networks and post-truth, do you think that music, the lyrics of a song, can change the world? Or at least make it a little better?

-We are very closed and I think we resort to music to discover who or what we are. Music tells us how to escape from certain things. It does not change the world, because songs are like art arrows and can not really compete with the silly spectacle of war, money and political violence ... which is what makes the world go round. The songs mitigate the trauma of ... just being alive.

- In 2019 it will turn 60 years old. Is it something that bothers you or that you receive with peace of mind? Do you see yourself singing on stage and publishing albums for many more years?

-I feel somewhat insensitive with respect to age. Everything happens so fast that it is difficult to even know what is really happening. As long as I have a good pulse, I know that I will have the initiative to sing. I am not a chosen one, I have never been promoted to be fashionable or I am where I am because of my appearance, therefore, I have not moved away from the original need to sing. You must continue as if everyone is listening to you ... Even if they are not!

Article link:
http://culto.latercera.com/2018/07/...sociedades-al-masculinismo-tomar-represalias/

Article source:


Anyone from Chile in the know?
Regards,
FWD.

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Morrissey talks about "modern" feminism in the interview, not current feminism. I would understand if he had talked about a part of modern feminism. Feminism is a huge movement with lots of different branches and objectives. Depending on the definition of that word I am able to say if I am a feminist or not, but I would be stupid being a woman not supporting equal rights and true freedom. What I am not is a men-hater. In fact most women love men and some of those women do it against their best interests considering the huge amount of macho men in our societies, especially in the so called Latin America.
If a man can't tolerate a woman who asks for equal rights and freedom then that man is not that into her or he is not that into women, two very acceptable possibilities, or he is a macho who doesn't deserve any woman at all.
Of course feminism shoud be much more than girls playing football or being scouts. Feminism should care about all the rights that allow women to develop as human beings, equals and free. Hollywood feminists are poseurs because everybody knows most of them are there because of a father, a daddy, a husband, a lover or anything like that who paved their way to the stardom. Of course that doesn't mean they should allow to be raped by pervert pigs like Weinstein, but it's ridiculous the way they are being published as the faces of feminism, when in fact their careers were based exactly on the opposite principles of equality, freedom and independence. If someone made the casting couch that person is not a true feminist, she is a traitor to the fight for dignity of true feminist women. Their images projecting success to other women when in fact they are playing the macho men games are a set back to women dignity.

The thing is, feminism has succeeded in the West. Women have equal rights. Feminism should wrap things up or it will receive due criticism. If feminists today have a reason to exist, it would be, presumably, to identify and address women's issues in other parts of the world. I'm not sure what good things like trying to tell us that there are 69 genders and lecturing men about "manspreading" do.
 
Modern feminism in the West is basically the equivalent of hardcore Bible-thumping Christianity. These people are totally indoctrinated and no amount of reason will change their minds. They have their ideology and that is that, and it doesn't matter what logic or science might tell them.

In fact, feminists today want to "create" new genders and identities in much the same way as creationists think that God just up and created everything from nothing. Science tells us that both things are at best unsupported.
 
The thing is, feminism has succeeded in the West. Women have equal rights. Feminism should wrap things up or it will receive due criticism. If feminists today have a reason to exist, it would be, presumably, to identify and address women's issues in other parts of the world. I'm not sure what good things like trying to tell us that there are 69 genders and lecturing men about "manspreading" do.

They throw their beloved science and dna right out the window when it comes to that ridiculous gender stuff. Everyday they make one up. You suggest that Jesus made a couple of genders, maybe just two, they go ballistic, but they create them as if they were creating those funny paper flowers.:rock:
You bring up DNA and how that is controlling etc etc and nobody has found 69 genders inside the DNA only two and right off DNA is racist. Just like Math is now racist. LOON INSANITY:eek:
 
The thing is, feminism has succeeded in the West. Women have equal rights. Feminism should wrap things up or it will receive due criticism. If feminists today have a reason to exist, it would be, presumably, to identify and address women's issues in other parts of the world. I'm not sure what good things like trying to tell us that there are 69 genders and lecturing men about "manspreading" do.

Women don't have equal rights in the West. Think about the differences in salaries, or when they are asked in interviews if they want to have children. The liberation of women is far from being accomplished in the West (It's like saying that gays are not discriminated only because in most western countries marriage or civil partnership are legal). I hate when people describe a woman with courage like someone who has the balls (pure masculism) Women don't have balls and don't need them. We have our own attributes :)
 
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One thing I know for certain, at least from most of the women I know?
The whole “vote for me cuz I’m a woman” thing really pissed them off, one even voted for trump I think o_O
I got one to vote for Jill with me instead, maybe one voted for Hillary, but the whole identity politics really blows up when it comes to gender, and the Democratic Party’s attempt to manipulate women are at least in part of why they lost congress. They basically preselected bunch of female candidates over the last decade to run for office just to get the “women’s vote” it was dumb
Another personal example, every women I personally know in real life of voting age, voted for Bernie Sanders in the primary and he’s an old white Jew guy :rolleyes:

At least you didn't vote for the Wicked Witch of the West.

The whole "vote for us because you're black" thing isn't working too well these days either.

I really do hate identity politics of all kinds. I don't think modern feminism will have much mainstream support for much longer. Most women simply are too smart for it.
 
The thing is, feminism has succeeded in the West. Women have equal rights. Feminism should wrap things up or it will receive due criticism. If feminists today have a reason to exist, it would be, presumably, to identify and address women's issues in other parts of the world. I'm not sure what good things like trying to tell us that there are 69 genders and lecturing men about "manspreading" do.

Feminism has won some battles, but things can be reverted very quickly. There is legal equality, but that doesn't mean reality, given the equation of power, follows the same path. Laws can be changed by people in power or by a couple of votings. Women as a whole are very poor and powerless compared to men even in western societies, especially because in most cases they have to take care of children when men abandon them to form other families or to live as single men. The option of abortion and contraception are the cornerstones of women's freedom and equality and they are very far from being settled matters even in most modern western countries. I kind of agree about lecturing about manspreading, you can't make people change by lectures, you just have to live your life with dignity. The example of your life is the best lecture.
 
Morrissey my dear, it was funny and even a bit cool there for a while how you copied every view and statement from me but this has gone too far now so please form your own opinion on things.
 
Women don't have equal rights in the West. Think about the differences in salaries, or when they are asked in interviews if they want to have children. The liberation of woman is far from being accomplished in the West (It's like saying that gays are not discriminated only because in most western countries for marriage of civil partnership are legal). I hate when people to say that a woman has courage they say that she has the balls (pure masculism) Women don't have balls and don't need them. We have our own attributes :)

The wage gap is nonsense that has been debunked many times. You are right that men and women are not totally equal, but that is largely because men and women are, on average, quite different. They don't choose to work the same jobs most of the time when given the choice. This is why jobs are more gender-segregated in countries like Norway compared to countries like India in which women are often required to take "men's jobs" in order to get ahead.

If anything, feminism can still be useful to advocate for certain social issues, but as far as large-scale policy change is concerned, feminism has run its course.
 
The wage gap is not nonsense, but it’s not true across all industries, but it is very real in many. Part of it though is that well, women are just better people from certain moral standpoints in general like being loyal to an employer and expecting to be rewarded “in the long run”
Men have a far higher tendency to change jobs if they don’t get the wage they want, while employers manipulate women often, not as much of course. More and more women are just not taking shit anymore and that will be what makes equal pay really happen across the board...
 
Feminism has won some battles, but things can be reverted very quickly. There is legal equality, but that doesn't mean reality, given the equation of power, follows the same path. Laws can be changed by people in power or by a couple of votings. Women as a whole are very poor and powerless compared to men even in western societies, especially because in most cases they have to take care of children when men abandon them to form other families or to live as single men. The option of abortion and contraception are the cornerstones of women's freedom and equality and they are very far from being settled matters even in most modern western countries. I kind of agree about lecturing about manspreading, you can't make people change by lectures, you just have to live your life with dignity. The example of your life is the best lecture.

I don't disagree, but I also don't think it's possible to turn men into women and women into men. Men and women will always be different, and we should navigate these differences in positive ways rather than by demonizing one sex or the other as feminism (and the pushback it generates) does.

I agree about abortion. It is still relatively relevant. However, I also don't think that most people exactly love the idea of abortion, and the rights of the unborn child are also a factor. I've never understood how anyone who is concerned about animal rights, for example, could support abortions at 5 or 6 months of pregnancy. Of course, within certain time limits and circumstances, I support abortion, but I also don't like the way that certain feminists talk about it so heartlessly and selfishly. It should have to be carried out early and as a last resort.
 
The wage gap is nonsense that has been debunked many times. You are right that men and women are not totally equal, but that is largely because men and women are, on average, quite different. They don't choose to work the same jobs most of the time when given the choice. This is why jobs are more gender-segregated in countries like Norway compared to countries like India in which women are often required to take "men's jobs" in order to get ahead.

If anything, feminism can still be useful to advocate for certain social issues, but as far as large-scale policy change is concerned, feminism has run its course.

Honestly I'm not a fan of the word 'feminism'. We all should have the same interest in removing all kind of discrimination (I know it sounds quite obvious and like a slogan, but it's true). Interesting debate that one. Adding I don't always agree with Morrissey, but this time yes.
 
The wage gap is not nonsense, but it’s not true across all industries, but it is very real in many. Part of it though is that well, women are just better people from certain moral standpoints in general like being loyal to an employer and expecting to be rewarded “in the long run”
Men have a far higher tendency to change jobs if they don’t get the wage they want, while employers manipulate women often, not as much of course. More and more women are just not taking shit anymore and that will be what makes equal pay really happen across the board...

Certainly there are some pay discrepancies that are often tied to personality differences between men and women. The fact is, corporate culture does tend to favour men when it comes to higher positions (which also happen to pay more, of course), largely due to personality and the need to be tough, aggressive, and hard, etc.. We can only fight back against biology so much though—some things are just rather evolutionary.

There is definitely nothing wrong with encouraging women to "ask for more" where appropriate. That comes off as kind of patronizing, but in terms of the law, there is no policy that needs to be changed that feminism can really address. We are talking about individual concerns here for the most part, and otherwise, we are dealing with millions of years of evolution that have resulted in men and women being somewhat different. There is nothing wrong with that, despite what feminism might insist.
 
I think sports presenters should mention if it’s the women’s competitions. If they don’t it’s easy to think you’ve slipped into a parallel universe.

Some years ago I awoke and turned on the radio beside the bed and lay sort of dozing in and out of sleep waiting for the alarm to go off when the sports report came on saying that “... tonight Arsenal take on Wolfsburg in the second leg of their semi final of the UEFA Champions League.”

I sat bolt upright. “f***. How long have I been asleep?”
 
Certainly there are some pay discrepancies that are often tied to personality differences between men and women. The fact is, corporate culture does tend to favour men when it comes to higher positions (which also happen to pay more, of course), largely due to personality and the need to be tough, aggressive, and hard, etc.. We can only fight back against biology so much though—some things are just rather evolutionary.

There is definitely nothing wrong with encouraging women to "ask for more" where appropriate. That comes off as kind of patronizing, but in terms of the law, there is no policy that needs to be changed that feminism can really address. We are talking about individual concerns here for the most part, and otherwise, we are dealing with millions of years of evolution that have resulted in men and women being somewhat different. There is nothing wrong with that, despite what feminism might insist.

The same people who tell me there’s a gender pay gap are very often the same people who tell me there’s no such thing as gender.
 
I think sports presenters should mention if it’s the women’s competitions. If they don’t it’s easy to think you’ve slipped into a parallel universe.

Some years ago I awoke and turned on the radio beside the bed and lay sort on dozing in and out of sleep waiting for the alarm to go off when the sports report came on saying that “... tonight Arsenal take on Wolfsburg in the second leg of their semi final of the UEFA Champions League.”

I sat bolt upright. “f***. How long have I been asleep?”

This stuff gets silly. Someone says on Twitter, "England haven't been to the World Cup semi-final since X..." and the keyboard feminists get up in arms about the women's team that actually had been to a semi-final more recently. But this is the MEN'S World Cup. I can't imagine anyone complaining during the women's World Cup if a commentator didn't include the men's teams because why on earth would they considering that it's totally irrelevant to the torunament?
 
I think sports presenters should mention if it’s the women’s competitions. If they don’t it’s easy to think you’ve slipped into a parallel universe.

Some years ago I awoke and turned on the radio beside the bed and lay sort on dozing in and out of sleep waiting for the alarm to go off when the sports report came on saying that “... tonight Arsenal take on Wolfsburg in the second leg of their semi final of the UEFA Champions League.”

I sat bolt upright. “f***. How long have I been asleep?”
Honestly, I rarely watch men’s tennis :brows:
 
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