"Mike Joyce of The Smiths in conversation with Chris Hawkins" @ The Bowdon Rooms (June 8, 2024)

[Vesper Nocturne]

I was over the moon when Morrissey got rid of all opening acts, and I’m over the moon that he’s never done any of the things described in that paragraph.

It’s a travesty how he’s been treated - for the last 10 years in particular. He’s been on the receiving end of so much vitriol, and he’s really been through a lot. But he’s been absolutely right to stand his ground, and I adore him all the more for the fact that at least he always knew, and still knows, that he should always stand apart. And also for knowing his own worth, and caliber. There are things to compromise on in life. And there are things to never compromise on.

It may be a little longer between albums than anyone would have ideally liked, with some unforeseen twists and turns that occurred along the way, but he’s a very astute man with a very sharp intellect, and he was always in this for the long game. I haven’t seen anything to make me think anything has changed there.

Morrissey IS his own supergroup.

 

[Vesper Nocturne]

Brummers, i need Morrissey to be in a supergroup with rod stewart and eric clapton or with oasis or with who knows who else like i need a hole in the head.

I hope he busks outside a tube station with a banjo that has shoelaces for strings before he does that.

 

[Was I ever any good]

I’ve always thought that Morrissey needs to be recording an album of pop songs, rather than political shit.
Now the best producer for this non event would be Tom Baily.
He’s the writer of classic pop songs, you know the kind, the ones that stay in your head for hours and just won’t leave.

 

[Was I ever any good]

Nice to see Brummie boy stalking these boards once more.
Are you on early release with a licence
and a tag BB

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Morrissey and Marr's folly was not getting Joyce to sign something agreeing to 10%.

Totally agree.

The counter argument I suppose would be that it was Joyce's folly not to insist on having a written contract.

Judge Weeks had a decision to make and sided with Joyce. Morrissey, by all accounts, behaved very arrogantly in court and this is probably what swung the decision against him. Joyce - whilst less intelligent - was inoffensive. Weeks probably deduced from the band members' respective personalities that Joyce was too trusting and that Morrissey and Marr didn't respect him enough to bother offering a written contract.

Yes, that most likely may have been the judges opinion. And a wrong one if true, for I think M&Marr respected what Mike & Andy brought to the songs, at least enough to give them 10%. And the reason for not
having it on paper seemed to be that they, M & Marr, didn’t know better, and didn’t have a manager to turn to for advice. Unfortunately, at the time, it seems they both believed a verbal agreement was enough and that it was settled.

The moral is don't piss off a judge, especially when it's your own money on the line.

Lol. Yes and that too!

 

[Luxo]

I’ve always thought that Morrissey needs to be recording an album of pop songs, rather than political shit.
Now the best producer for this non event would be Tom Baily.
He’s the writer of classic pop songs, you know the kind, the ones that stay in your head for hours and just won’t leave.

This is why I like I Thought You Were Dead and Rebels Without Applause. Just good catchy songs, decent funny lyrics. More of this please, Morrissey.

 

[FactChecker]

Most likely is no one expected the band to become as big as they did so quickly, at least not bigger than The Fall or similar indie luminaries of the early 80s, who also had flakey arrangements about contracts and rights and shares.

Note that the recent new edition of Slates is promoted with the detail that the musicians involved will be getting paid for the first time in years.

 

[DaveJCarr]

I was over the moon when Morrissey got rid of all opening acts, and I’m over the moon that he’s never done any of the things described in that paragraph.

It’s a travesty how he’s been treated - for the last 10 years in particular. He’s been on the receiving end of so much vitriol, and he’s really been through a lot. But he’s been absolutely right to stand his ground, and I adore him all the more for the fact that at least he always knew, and still knows, that he should always stand apart. And also for knowing his own worth, and caliber. There are things to compromise on in life. And there are things to never compromise on.

It may be a little longer between albums than anyone would have ideally liked, with some unforeseen twists and turns that occurred along the way, but he’s a very astute man with a very sharp intellect, and he was always in this for the long game. I haven’t seen anything to make me think anything has changed there.

Morrissey IS his own supergroup.

I never said that he needs to join a supergroup, just that a real collaboration would be novel. If he were a supergroup of his own, he'd have a record contract by now. Labeks are perfectly willing to work with anyone - whatever vitriol they might receive- if there's sufficient money to be made. He has the absolute right to do whatever he pleases, and not compromise on whatever he thinks is beyond the scope of acceptable artistic comprise. If that intractability results in smother spell of wilderness years, then that's the way it is. His sense of his own integrity is clearly of tantamount, priceless important to him It just occurred to me that he's never really done the truly collaborative band thing- except maybe at the beginning with Marr. I always find it interesting when creative people flex a different set of muscles. like he did with Autobiography and list of the lost. Heck, if all else fails, maybe writing another memoir is the way to go. It might be his most successful project to date, and certainly the one which required no other collaboration outside of a publishing contract.

 

[Vesper Nocturne]

I never said that he needs to join a supergroup, just that a real collaboration would be novel. If he were a supergroup of his own, he'd have a record contract by now. Labeks are perfectly willing to work with anyone - whatever vitriol they might receive- if there's sufficient money to be made. He has the absolute right to do whatever he pleases, and not compromise on whatever he thinks is beyond the scope of acceptable artistic comprise. If that intractability results in smother spell of wilderness years, then that's the way it is. His sense of his own integrity is clearly of tantamount, priceless important to him It just occurred to me that he's never really done the truly collaborative band thing- except maybe at the beginning with Marr. I always find it interesting when creative people flex a different set of muscles. like he did with Autobiography and list of the lost. Heck, if all else fails, maybe writing another memoir is the way to go. It might be his most successful project to date, and certainly the one which required no other collaboration outside of a publishing contract.

Yep, definitely agree that he should write more!

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

This is why I like I Thought You Were Dead and Rebels Without Applause. Just good catchy songs, decent funny lyrics. More of this please, Morrissey.

one of the reasons why I’m so looking forward to Bonfire, I think it’s going to be a well rounded album, a good balance of catchy and deeper songs.

 

[Famous when dead]

If anyone attending this tonight would like to do a small summary, highlight something interesting said or full review - please feel free.
Regards,
FWD.

 

[gordyboy9]

Yes deffo. This should have all been handled better from the get go. Bewildering how the managers could be so short sighted in not having this nailed down from the start.

I think it's great that Mike's stepping up for these interviews. It's so regrettable that this all seems to feature so much in people's opinion on him. It can't be too difficult to think how it must have been to be in his (and Andy's) shoes when the band split and the future looked uncertain for them. Getting legal help to settle things always had the risk of things running away.

I suppose it could have been worse. You hear of bands ending up with all of them getting nothing. Being unable to even cover their own songs post breakup without having to pay royalties to someone else.

the thing about royalties is that they take a good while before you start earning any money.
most people who form bands in the old days were very poor,remember reading paul weller was on top of the pops with the jam and had to borrow his bus fare home.

 

[Irregular Regular]

If anyone attending this tonight would like to do a small summary, highlight something interesting said or full review - please feel free.
Regards,
FWD.

Nothing particularly earth-shattering, a very enjoyable evening nonetheless.

"I nearly died in an accident when I was a young boy, they read me the last rites" (which is news to me)

"We never celebrated any of our successes, which is strange now I think about it, that's a great question"

"I was never friends with Morrissey, but I was fascinated by him"
Did you want to be? "No, he was different to the 3 of us, and a few years older, 4 years at that age is a massive gap"

"The last time I saw Morrissey was at a local computer shop, he was buying ink for a printer"

Would you ever want to play music with Johnny again? "No"

A really genuine and all round lovely chap.

 

[Irregular Regular]

A couple more I just remembered...
Post-Smiths break-up:

"Andy, Craig and I were in the studio doing some work on early Morrissey solo songs, we had some time and we were playing lots of Smiths. Moz comes along and says 'that sounds really good, we should do a gig', and that's how the Wolverhampton gig came about. The one thing agreed was not to play any songs previously played live by The Smiths, to avoid comparisons, etc"

"I was invited to join Suede, but declined on the basis that it would draw far too many comparisons, what with Bernard Butler sounding more like Johnny than Johnny himself, Matt a great bass player who is a massive Andy Rourke fan and a singer with a falsetto, I politely declined and said to them they would do just as great without me... I was right" (said with a big smile)

 

[Orange Crush]

I wasn't there but I heard him say he likes Moz solo, especially the musings of Orange Crush. He's not too keen on The Drivel Thread.

 

[Famous when dead]

 

[JerryCan]

...
Would you ever want to play music with Johnny again? "No"
A really genuine and all round lovely chap.

Thanks for posting IR. Would love to have been there for this. Of course everyone wants to hear great insights about their favourite band. These statements sort of figure with what's been revealed over the years - the age difference significant back then etc, but that one about not wanting to play with Johnny again seems really sad. Watching all the old Smiths vids it so often seems to be Mike that Johnny interacts with, as M is usually entangled with the front row or his own dancing moves.
Sad his reply wasn't just "yes of course, who wouldn't".

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

"I was invited to join Suede, but declined on the basis that it would draw far too many comparisons, what with Bernard Butler sounding more like Johnny than Johnny himself, Matt a great bass player who is a massive Andy Rourke fan and a singer with a falsetto, I politely declined and said to them they would do just as great without me... I was right" (said with a big smile)

He may have been invited, after he answered a ‘drummer wanted’ advertisement placed by Brett. Which is pretty funny.

And he says he declined the offer, but I wonder why he answered the ad in the first place? A bit strange. Maybe he thought it would be a laugh.


I’ve read it in a few places, but at the moment could only find this exchange between Joyce and Brett in a Q&A …

Brett, do you have a copy of the single I recorded with Suede: “Art” b/w “Be My God”? If so, could I have one? Mike Joyce

Mike, I think I destroyed my copy years ago. I’m not one to keep memorabilia. They’re about 100 quid on eBay. Mike was an early member of Suede. We were advertising for a drummer and listed The Smiths as an influence. Then at an audition, their drummer pokes his head through the door and says, “Hello, lads!” Ha! It was a bit Jim’ll Fix It. I don’t think anyone thought it was going to last, Mike was far too big a name for us. But he just took us under his wing, guided us through the industry, and was so charming. I still keep in contact with him. Brett Anderson.


From Anderson’s Coal Black Mornings…

"I can’t remember the exact wording but I know we namechecked The Smiths as an influence. One of the few people who answered was a Mancunian called Mike. What we didn’t know until he marched into the rehearsal room at the Premises was that it was Mike Joyce. We were all slightly in awe, but Mike was a real gentleman. He politely listened to our average songs and jammed along with us and offered advice, but never monologued or lectured or played the seasoned pro. Over the next few weeks he would take us under his wing and in his kind, avuncular way try to nurture and encourage us. I’d like to think he must have seen some potential, but maybe he just felt sorry for us or liked hanging out."

Supposedly, Mike played on these (?) …

obvious Smiths influence.

makes me think of U2 actually.

 

[Irregular Regular]

He may have been invited, after he answered a ‘drummer wanted’ advertisement placed by Brett. Which is pretty funny.

And he says he declined the offer, but I wonder why he answered the ad in the first place? A bit strange. Maybe he thought it would be a laugh.


I’ve read it in a few places, but at the moment could only find this exchange between Joyce and Brett in a Q&A …

Brett, do you have a copy of the single I recorded with Suede: “Art” b/w “Be My God”? If so, could I have one? Mike Joyce

Mike, I think I destroyed my copy years ago. I’m not one to keep memorabilia. They’re about 100 quid on eBay. Mike was an early member of Suede. We were advertising for a drummer and listed The Smiths as an influence. Then at an audition, their drummer pokes his head through the door and says, “Hello, lads!” Ha! It was a bit Jim’ll Fix It. I don’t think anyone thought it was going to last, Mike was far too big a name for us. But he just took us under his wing, guided us through the industry, and was so charming. I still keep in contact with him. Brett Anderson.


From Anderson’s Coal Black Mornings…

"I can’t remember the exact wording but I know we namechecked The Smiths as an influence. One of the few people who answered was a Mancunian called Mike. What we didn’t know until he marched into the rehearsal room at the Premises was that it was Mike Joyce. We were all slightly in awe, but Mike was a real gentleman. He politely listened to our average songs and jammed along with us and offered advice, but never monologued or lectured or played the seasoned pro. Over the next few weeks he would take us under his wing and in his kind, avuncular way try to nurture and encourage us. I’d like to think he must have seen some potential, but maybe he just felt sorry for us or liked hanging out."

Supposedly, Mike played on these (?) …

obvious Smiths influence.

makes me think of U2 actually.

He did say he recorded 2 songs with them, for the original debut album that eventually got scrapped.

Mike told this story in a really humourous way.
He answered an ad: 'London band looking for drummer with a Smithsy sound' or words to that effect.
He phoned as didn't want to travel down to London for a potential waste of time.
They were insistent on wanting to hear samples of his work to ensure he had that 'Smiths sound'.
Mike: 'I think I sound just like their drummer', 'ok, but can you send us some recordings?' Mike:'just go into any record shop and buy any album by The Smiths'...silence ensues, and then 'Mike, is it really you?'
Pretty funny...at least to me.

 

[JerryCan]

It's such a great story!
"I think I sound just like their drummer".
Perhaps it also hints at how cast adrift he may have felt at the time.