What do you think of "I Ex-Love You"

[Gregor Samsa]

The second half of Closer is flawless, the first half isn’t. But these things are personal of course.

To me The Queen is Dead is perfect despite Vicar in a Tutu. And so there are dozens of albums that are perfect in their own right, even if not all the songs are 10/10.

I disagree!

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Can an album be considered a masterpiece without being perfect? Is a perfect album one level above a masterpiece? I’d say yes.

 

[Thewlis]

Can an album be considered a masterpiece without being perfect? Is a perfect album one level above a masterpiece? I’d say yes.

No, a masterpiece is 10/10 and a perfect album is 10/10 also. Easy

 

[Gregor Samsa]

No, a masterpiece is 10/10 and a perfect album is 10/10 also. Easy

But I agree! Example: I think Closer is a stronger album than Disintegration. I’d even say that it’s a perfect album. Easily 10/10. Now, because of a couple of less-than-great songs, Disintegration is not quite perfect, but I’d still give it a 10/10 and I’d call it a masterpiece, thanks to the gut-wrenching enormity of the rest of the album and it’s otherwise cohesive and impressive nature. Confusing? Yes, very.

So in my book, a perfect album is one notch above a masterpiece, but I have no problem giving them the same rating.

To get back to Your Arsenal: Fatty and We Hate It are not just inferior to the rest of the album, they’re really quite weak. And that does it for me. It’s fine if there are one or two songs that are slightly inferior (if the rest of the album has the impressive quality of a masterpiece), but you can’t have weak songs on a masterpiece. Heck no!

 

[Thewlis]

But I agree! Example: I think Closer is a stronger album than Disintegration. I’d even say that it’s a perfect album. Easily 10/10. Now, because of a couple of less-than-great songs, Disintegration is not quite perfect, but I’d still give it a 10/10 and I’d call it a masterpiece, thanks to the gut-wrenching enormity of the rest of the album and it’s otherwise cohesive and impressive nature. Confusing? Yes, very.

So in my book, a perfect album is one notch above a masterpiece, but I have no problem giving them the same rating.

To get back to Your Arsenal: Fatty and We Hate It are not just inferior to the rest of the album, they’re really quite weak. And that does it for me. It’s fine if there are one or two songs that are slightly inferior (if the rest of the album has the impressive quality of a masterpiece), but you can’t have weak songs on a masterpiece. Heck no!

And where does The Queen Is Dead fit in with these two?

I think all masterpieces have a few lesser songs even if only to make the highlights stand out. I agree that you cannot have weak songs on a masterpiece.

On the other hand I don’t think I know of a single album in the history of music where all the songs are 10/10. Some songs will always be greater than others.

 

[Dirk Blaggard]

I like it!

I hadn't seen the lyrics before. Thank you for that. I stick to my first opinion, it's average, at best
Musically, it's like Rebel and What Kind of Peeps Live In These Houses. What I mean is that it is a very fecking weak Smiths impression, very limp,
not even up there with Six Pence None The Richer's "Kiss Me "
The lyrics aren't great, are they? I mean, it is basically just him going over old ground
One of his "spite songs" he can be great at them, Unhappy Birthday and I Wish You Lonely but these are in no way as fecking
good as them. It's just lazy.
Out of all the unreleased new songs, there are some good ones but some stinkers
Kerouacs Crack, Notre Damn and this are his weakest ones. If I'm honest Bonfire Of Teenagers and Rebels, are not much better

I thought I am Not A Dog On A Chain was a fecking cracking lp as well.

 

[Dirk Blaggard]

I was excited for this one, and I've liked a lot of the other Bonfire songs so I expected great things. Don't mind the music but the lyrics are really disappointing. Sit in your favourite chair... Let me brush your hair, really? It's such an interesting title and there were so many places he could have gone with it and it's like he didn't even try. If he were going to pen something about Johnny, I'd expect something a lot better than this thin gruel that could be about anyone and no-one. B-side material at best.

I agree with Amy and the person she was speaking to, they are both spot on.
I am truly disappointed (" truly truly truly... errrrr ") I had no idea this one was the fecking Smiths one they were on about in the interview
I was really hoping for something else for that song. The title and the fact they mentioned Smiths in the interview, made me think they were letting us know " this one is about him " and I was hoping for an epic Last Night Maudline Street or Reel Around
When I heard the song, I could hear the Smiths influence, but this kind of Smiths influence he has done a few songs now, so I was hoping this one wasn't the one that was mentioned
As I said a couple of times before and like the person Amy was speaking to said, the lyric are just poor, it just seems very half-assed. Its like the very first version of a poem, a sketch, usually people then go back to them and flesh them out. He could have written this while at the bar, waiting for his next pint.
The lyrics could have been saved if the singing was different, maybe?

 

[Dirk Blaggard]

And where does The Queen Is Dead fit in with these two?

I think all masterpieces have a few lesser songs even if only to make the highlights stand out. I agree that you cannot have weak songs on a masterpiece.

On the other hand I don’t think I know of a single album in the history of music where all the songs are 10/10. Some songs will always be greater than others.

Sometimes when an lp is all bangers it can be like a greatest hits LP, like Suede's coming up
I dont think all the songs on an lp have to be perfect, for the lp to be perfect. some can be great, some can be good, some can be ok
but as long as it works as a whole then it can be a masterpiece. I think all the Smiths Lps are masterpieces. Im not sure M has had a true masterpiece in his solo career, maybe Vauxhall ?

 

[Gregor Samsa]

And where does The Queen Is Dead fit in with these two?

I think all masterpieces have a few lesser songs even if only to make the highlights stand out. I agree that you cannot have weak songs on a masterpiece.

On the other hand I don’t think I know of a single album in the history of music where all the songs are 10/10. Some songs will always be greater than others.

TQID is flawed, I think. Albeit good, fun songs, Shankly and Vicar screws up the flow and the overall feel. That said, it’s still my favorite studio album by The Smiths.

If we’re going with my ‘definition’ of a masterpiece, then I agree. Disintegration and Vauxhall are great examples.

Perhaps. A 9/10 song is, strictly speaking, a lesser song than a 10/10, and I concede that a perfect album could perhaps contain one or two 9/10s. But yes, agree. Some songs will definitely always be better than others.

But a perfect album isn’t just about having 10 or so amazing tracks on it. It’s about an overall feel that needs to be there throughout, about it being cohesive and make sense. I think. And I think it needs to feel like an album.

 

[Thewlis]

TQID is flawed, I think. Albeit good, fun songs, Shankly and Vicar screws up the flow and the overall feel. That said, it’s still my favorite studio album by The Smiths.

If we’re going with my ‘definition’ of a masterpiece, then I agree. Disintegration and Vauxhall are great examples.

Perhaps. A 9/10 song is, strictly speaking, a lesser song than a 10/10, and I concede that a perfect album could perhaps contain one or two 9/10s. But yes, agree. Some songs will definitely always be better than others.

But a perfect album isn’t just about having 10 or so amazing tracks on it. It’s about an overall feel that needs to be there throughout, about it being cohesive and make sense. I think. And I think it needs to feel like an album.

So Vauxhall is a better album than TQID for you? Amazing. To me TQID will always be my fave album of all time. Vauxhall is top-10 as well.

 

[Thewlis]

Sometimes when an lp is all bangers it can be like a greatest hits LP, like Suede's coming up
I dont think all the songs on an lp have to be perfect, for the lp to be perfect. some can be great, some can be good, some can be ok
but as long as it works as a whole then it can be a masterpiece. I think all the Smiths Lps are masterpieces. Im not sure M has had a true masterpiece in his solo career, maybe Vauxhall ?

Vauxhall and Viva Hate are his masterpieces. Bona Drag as well, though that isn’t strictly an album, it is my fave collection of songs from him,

 

[Gregor Samsa]

So Vauxhall is a better album than TQID for you? Amazing. To me TQID will always be my fave album of all time. Vauxhall is top-10 as well.

It really is, yes. Definitely.

 

[Thewlis]

It really is, yes. Definitely.

Interesting, I wonder how many feel the same:

Thread 'Your top-10 albums (Smiths and Moz combined)'

Nov 15, 2024

Of all the regular The Smiths and Morrissey albums which 10 do you like the most? I’ll start.

1. The Queen is Dead
2. Strangeways, Here We Come
3. Vauxhall and I
4. Viva Hate
5. Meat is Murder
6. You Are the Quarry
7. The Smiths
8. Your Arsenal
9. Maladjusted
10. Years of Refusal

• Thewlis
• Replies: 42
• Forum: General Discussion

• 

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Interesting, I wonder how many feel the same:

Thread 'Your top-10 albums (Smiths and Moz combined)'

Nov 15, 2024

Of all the regular The Smiths and Morrissey albums which 10 do you like the most? I’ll start.

1. The Queen is Dead
2. Strangeways, Here We Come
3. Vauxhall and I
4. Viva Hate
5. Meat is Murder
6. You Are the Quarry
7. The Smiths
8. Your Arsenal
9. Maladjusted
10. Years of Refusal

• Thewlis
• Replies: 42
• Forum: General Discussion

• 

Not too many, I don’t think. I’ll start thinking about my list. Fun initiative!

 

[Musician]

For me a masterpiece isn't necessarily perfect / flawless. My reference point is Ocean Rain which is a masterpiece in my opinion, but I always skip (even on vinyl) the cauliflower nonsense song . And yes, as an album, an entity Vauxhall is stronger than TQID.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

For me a masterpiece isn't necessarily perfect / flawless. My reference point is Ocean Rain which is a masterpiece in my opinion, but I always skip (even on vinyl) the cauliflower nonsense song . And yes, as an album, an entity Vauxhall is stronger than TQID.

That’s my point. I made a distinction between a masterpiece (which is an album that is allowed to have one or two “lesser”songs, but still holds together wonderfully) and a perfect album (which is an album where all songs are 9s or 10s and everything feels connected and organic).

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Vauxhall and Viva Hate are his masterpieces. Bona Drag as well, though that isn’t strictly an album, it is my fave collection of songs from him,

I would say Arsenal too, or at least follows as a close third.

That’s my point. I made a distinction between a masterpiece (which is an album that is allowed to have one or two “lesser”songs, but still holds together wonderfully) and a perfect album (which is an album where all songs are 9s or 10s and everything feels connected and organic).

Agree. But sometimes it’s what can be considered weaker songs that make the others stronger in context of the album as a whole. They’re breaks from the more intense pieces, a kind of needed balance. Which brings me back to Arsenal with songs like Fatty, Hate it, and even People I know.

Even Lou Reed’s Berlin has Caroline Says 1 which in context could considered a ‘lighter moment’ on the album. A masterpiece for me, but such a heavy record that I wouldn’t revisit on a daily basis in order to protect my sanity, lol.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

I would say Arsenal too, or at least follows as a close third.



Agree. But sometimes it’s what can be considered weaker songs that make the others stronger in context of the album as a whole. They’re breaks from the more intense pieces, a kind of needed balance. Which brings me back to Arsenal with songs like Fatty, Hate it, and even People I know.

Even Lou Reed’s Berlin has Caroline Says 1 which in context could considered a ‘lighter moment’ on the album. A masterpiece for me, but such a heavy record that I wouldn’t revisit on a daily basis in order to protect my sanity, lol.

Of course, yes. I’m not against lighter moments, per se. But, to me, they can’t be throwaways or ‘silly’ songs.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Of course, yes. I’m not against lighter moments, per se. But, to me, they can’t be throwaways or ‘silly’ songs.

life can be silly sometimes. Why not reflect that in song? I thought it interesting that recently he said something along the lines
that Veronica is ‘not really songwriting as such, it’s more the brain sneezing.’ A comment that I’m surprised no one brought up for discussion.

Post in thread 'Knoxville, TN - Tennessee Theatre (November 7, 2024) post-show'

Nov 8, 2024

Weird little wave towards Carmen lol.

Thank you. I have more to say. It's not really songwriting as such. It's more the brain sneezing. "We love you Moz!!"

Veronica

• Spooked

• 
• 
• 
• 

Anyway, it’s all subjective, and the artist’s brain sneeze could be the listener’s most cherished song, and so, maybe a masterpiece to them.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

life can be silly sometimes. Why not reflect that in song? I thought it interesting that recently he said something along the lines
that Veronica is ‘not really songwriting as such, it’s more the brain sneezing.’ A comment that I’m surprised no one brought up for discussion.

Post in thread 'Knoxville, TN - Tennessee Theatre (November 7, 2024) post-show'

Nov 8, 2024

Weird little wave towards Carmen lol.

Thank you. I have more to say. It's not really songwriting as such. It's more the brain sneezing. "We love you Moz!!"

Veronica

• Spooked

• 
• 
• 
• 

Anyway, it’s all subjective, and the artist’s brain sneeze could be the listener’s most cherished song, and so, maybe a masterpiece to them.

I know, I know. One of my all time favorite Smiths songs is Some Girls, after all. And not just because of Marr’s magnificent and otherworldly guitar. I guess these types of songs just work better for me in some cases than others.

And that was a very clearheaded statement from him. It could even help me come to terms with that song.