Morrissey Central "THANKSKILLING AND CHRISTMAS A TIME FOR GOOD WILL TO ALL ANIMALS" (November 15, 2023)

THANKSKILLING AND CHRISTMAS A TIME FOR GOOD WILL TO ALL ANIMALS





Relates to this from 9yrs ago:

"PETA’s video “Someday,” brought to life by Los Angeles animator Anna Saunders, was created in honor of Morrissey’s 55th birthday."


Related item:
 
Because you guys are against eating dead animals but desperately try to mimic the taste of dead animals. Seems strange don't you think?

Do most people really eat animals because it tastes like ‘dead animals’ or do most people eat animals because of the way it’s prepared
and most importantly flavored?

I’ll sometimes eat spicy fake sausage, not because it tastes like dead animals, but because of the way the bean product is flavored.
 
Do most people really eat animals because it tastes like ‘dead animals’ or do most people eat animals because of the way it’s prepared
and most importantly flavored?
I think there's a lot to this. Very few people actually know the taste of nonhuman animal flesh independent of very specific means of cookery and seasoning. I would venture – as Sweeney Todd gruesomely and humorously reminds us, that human flesh bone muscle, or organ prepared as purposefully and carefully and flavored with enough seasoning technique as other animal flesh, particularly in the "red meat" category, would probably taste disconcertingly similar. There's a reason why people say that so many other meats taste like chicken after all. No species on earth is so divergent from another in terms of diet, environment and other factors as to taste unique.

(I've never found a nondairy cheese that comes close to the same textured flavoring as the dairy product and I do think intellectually, it makes more sense for the diet aspect of the innocent focus on vegetable forward cuisine and highlighting the flavors of those thing as opposed to imitation bridge gaps, but that's just a personal thing

I also can understand folks eye rolling or being turned off by the beginning by the vegan and vegetarian proselytization advocacy for which Morrissey is rightly infamous – and to which a lot of his fan base has responded in kind, but I also wonder why those people turned off or antagonized by would spend their time taking pot shots in a thread specifically about a Morrissey central posting advocating for renewed holiday awareness around the moral implications of carnivorous celebration. he has been linking to these videos for years, and central and Tre- to you-and in public statements while his touring in a spot that has enacted a policy he finds particularly offensive in this arena.

So who is the real antagonist here? Someone who has consistently stuck to the message, or those that come here to disparage that consistent message.

(I say that as someone who thinks that certain aspects of his beginning vegetarian and animal rights advocacy come at the expense or in the face of other arguably misogynistic selectively culturally antagonistic or objectionable framings, but this video does none of that)
 
I think there's a lot to this. Very few people actually know the taste of nonhuman animal flesh independent of very specific means of cookery and seasoning. I would venture – as Sweeney Todd gruesomely and humorously reminds us, that human flesh bone muscle, or organ prepared as purposefully and carefully and flavored with enough seasoning technique as other animal flesh, particularly in the "red meat" category, would probably taste disconcertingly similar. There's a reason why people say that so many other meats taste like chicken after all. No species on earth is so divergent from another in terms of diet, environment and other factors as to taste unique.

(I've never found a nondairy cheese that comes close to the same textured flavoring as the dairy product and I do think intellectually, it makes more sense for the diet aspect of the innocent focus on vegetable forward cuisine and highlighting the flavors of those thing as opposed to imitation bridge gaps, but that's just a personal thing

I also can understand folks eye rolling or being turned off by the beginning by the vegan and vegetarian proselytization advocacy for which Morrissey is rightly infamous – and to which a lot of his fan base has responded in kind, but I also wonder why those people turned off or antagonized by would spend their time taking pot shots in a thread specifically about a Morrissey central posting advocating for renewed holiday awareness around the moral implications of carnivorous celebration. he has been linking to these videos for years, and central and Tre- to you-and in public statements while his touring in a spot that has enacted a policy he finds particularly offensive in this arena.

So who is the real antagonist here? Someone who has consistently stuck to the message, or those that come here to disparage that consistent message.

(I say that as someone who thinks that certain aspects of his beginning vegetarian and animal rights advocacy come at the expense or in the face of other arguably misogynistic selectively culturally antagonistic or objectionable framings, but this video does none of that)

Well, it is hypocritical of Morrissey to ban the sale of any meat products at his shows yet be seen in restaurants that serve meat.
 
Well, it is hypocritical of Morrissey to ban the sale of any meat products at his shows yet be seen in restaurants that serve meat.
M is certainly no stranger to hypocrisy – and neither are any of us. Interesting that you bring up the meat sale ban, because I don't know if that was is operative in his past your in say Harlem etc. as it was in the previous ones. At least it didn't seem to garner the same public acknowledgment or publicity. I'm not saying it didn't happen I'm just saying I didn't see it advertised.

As far as the ban and shows is concerned, it strikes me more like someone setting the terms for a private party or whatever at which certain dishes or needs will not be servd. I imagine if Morrissey rented out a restaurant the same kind of thing would happen.
 
M is certainly no stranger to hypocrisy – and neither are any of us. Interesting that you bring up the meat sale ban, because I don't know if that was is operative in his past your in say Harlem etc. as it was in the previous ones. At least it didn't seem to garner the same public acknowledgment or publicity. I'm not saying it didn't happen I'm just saying I didn't see it advertised.

As far as the ban and shows is concerned, it strikes me more like someone setting the terms for a private party or whatever at which certain dishes or needs will not be servd. I imagine if Morrissey rented out a restaurant the same kind of thing would happen.
The meat ban definitely happened at Cruel World Festival, one of the conditions for him playing. It's happened at other festivals as well, Riot Fest in a window of time when he was scheduled to appear. And other instances:


He seems to enjoy imposing his will on others and then flouts it when it comes to himself, for instance hanging out at the Cat & Fiddle in Hollywood when they serve a traditional British roast.
 
I don’t need more Moz news that’s 10 years old!

I want to see more videos of Morrissey acting like a tit while drunk on an airplane.
 
You’ve reminded me of a video I posted where Israeli politicians were comparing Palestinians to animals, and when an Israeli spokesperson was questioned about that during an interview he replied with something along the lines of “comparing Palestinians to animals is an insult to the animals”. So yes, I can believe there are Israelis who value the lives of animals more than their fellow semites. When I made my comment about Zionists enjoying the taste of death, I was talking to a British presumably non-Jewish Zionist, and look, if you’re going to side with that nation from overseas without even having any ethnic ties there then you must be either gullible or extremely bloodthirsty.

(Or you might just be a Swede who was wrong about immigration into Europe, and are wrong about Israel, but you see Tel Aviv being one of the gay capitals of the world and are willing to overlook people being annihilated by bombs 40 miles away from Tel Aviv, because the illusion of “freedom” and “democracy” is all you care about. So you hop from one incorrect opinion to the next without ever truly learning from your mistakes. Since in your world bronzed youths freely being able to bugger each other is apparently more important than brown youths being allowed to retain their limbs.)

I know many Israelis buy into the propaganda their government puts out, I’ve seen recent videos of Israelis still convinced that Hamas beheaded 40 babies; Israel is a nation with an average IQ of 93, after all! At least they have the excuse of believing these atrocities happened to their own people, but for someone sitting thousands of miles away in England seeing the Palestinian death count reaching five figures and wanting more, then yes I’m not the least bit surprised a person like that would “enjoy the taste of death”.

I looked at your links, good for Israel for having 500,000 vegans, so that’s 5% of the population who perhaps view animals as being above Palestinians, and the remaining 95% maybe see them as being on the same level as each other? Who knows! I’m not sure if you were applauding Israel for being the per capita “vegan capital of the world”, but according to Google Japan has 3 million vegans and India has 5 million and we never pat them on the back for that (and neither one of those countries is even carrying out a genocide against a neighbouring population at the moment, as far as I know, and for that reason may be more deserving of praise)!
 
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I think Morrissey has always been realistic about how difficult it is to change habits - he's admitted to a bacon phase & a leather fetish - he just wants to make information available & make it easier for people to buy vegan food & goods.
 
The meat ban definitely happened at Cruel World Festival, one of the conditions for him playing. It's happened at other festivals as well, Riot Fest in a window of time when he was scheduled to appear. And other instances:


He seems to enjoy imposing his will on others and then flouts it when it comes to himself, for instance hanging out at the Cat & Fiddle in Hollywood when they serve a traditional British roast.

Morrissey banning meat at his shows is a false equivalence to him patronizing a non-vegan restaurant. He's not able to dictate what the restaurant serves any more than he can dictate what Whole Foods sells when he buys his vegan food. Hypocrisy would be if he actually ate meat. Make him dictator for life and see what happens with the Cat & Fiddle menu.
 
Morrissey banning meat at his shows is a false equivalence to him patronizing a non-vegan restaurant. He's not able to dictate what the restaurant serves any more than he can dictate what Whole Foods sells when he buys his vegan food. Hypocrisy would be if he actually ate meat. Make him dictator for life and see what happens with the Cat & Fiddle menu.

Yes, but he can choose to go to a vegan restaurant, which are plentiful in Los Angeles.
 
Yes, but he can choose to go to a vegan restaurant, which are plentiful in Los Angeles.

As an ex-pat he might prefer the atmosphere at the Cat & Fiddle, or maybe it's their drinks menu. It doesn't matter. As long as he's not ordering meat, he's not a hypocrite. If anything his dollar registers a demand for the vegan selection there.
 
As an ex-pat he might prefer the atmosphere at the Cat & Fiddle, or maybe it's their drinks menu. It doesn't matter. As long as he's not ordering meat, he's not a hypocrite. If anything his dollar registers a demand for the vegan selection there.

And yet the thousands at a festival he plays at don't have the choice. The vendors don't get that choice. One rule for the masses and Moz gets an exemption.
 
And yet the thousands at a festival he plays at don't have the choice. The vendors don't get that choice. One rule for the masses and Moz gets an exemption.

You're missing the point. He doesn't want it to be about having a choice. He doesn't think people should have the right to torture animals in order to gratify their taste buds, any more than he thinks people should have the right to rape or kill in order to gratify their lusts.

He doesn't want an "exemption" for himself. He would prefer it if every restaurant was vegan.
 
I'm fascinated by creatures of habit who do the same things day after day, year after year without ever breaking up the relentless monotony. For years I had been told by vegetarians how much better they felt due to their lifestyle, and I ignored them. Later in life I went vegan for a few months as an experiment and I was shocked at how much better I felt. Quantum leap better! I've stuck with it.

You are eating way more than just animal flesh when you eat meat. You're eating carcinogens, growth hormones, antibiotics you don't need, and God knows what else. People who eat meat 3 times a day are like coke-fiends or compulsive masturbators. If there is ever a truly serious meat shortage they'll be looking at you and licking their lips in anticipation. Long pig tonight!
 
From time immemorial, just as today, the underclass and the powerless have been forcibly limited from accessing resources for their own material advantage. It is thus injustice toward the more-than-human world—stripping it of its intrinsic being and value, and turning it into being-for and value-for people (“resources”)—that constitutes the foundation of social injustice and inequality.

Yet that foundation remains largely invisible, because a critical dimension of humanity’s self-awarded entitlement to use nature as we will has also been to make it taboo to regard our relationship with the natural world as having anything to do with matters of justice or injustice. Thus the anthropocentric credo, today buoyed along through such ideas as “resources,” “natural capital,” “ecological services,” “working landscapes,” and the like—ideas specifically indebted to the erasure of any intrinsic modality (ontological or evaluative) of the nonhuman realm—is left untouched, as is its plainly colonialist vocabulary. At the same time, the solution to social injustice is portrayed as the “democratic” (ever the buzzword) sharing of planetary loot, loot described more politely through such commonplace concepts as those listed above. The poor will be lifted from their dire plight, so goes the promise, as the natural world becomes sustainably degraded for the benefit of all people. But as I now turn to argue, the problem with this solution to social injustice is that it will not work; and if it were to work, it could hardly be called justice. Social relations between people do not transpire in a vacuum, despite the cult of humanity’s long-cultivated fancy that the natural world is a stage for the grand show of human affairs. It is within the context of the dominant relationship between humanity and Earth that social relations have become constituted as material, normative, and historical realities. As long as the living world is construed as a suite of resources to be seized or converted, human relations will tend to manifest the corollaries of this materialized belief: There will be competition, exploitation, corruption, struggle for access and control, posturing, and conflict over all manner of resources. Systematic distortions of human relations are inextricably coupled with the resourcist mindset—they are supported and inflamed by the relentlessly enacted regard of the natural world as a domain-to-be-used for human profit or advancement. The source of the disparity between the haves and the have-nots thus lies in the conception-cum-treatment of Earth’s living beings and nonliving things as resources—a corrupt concept which continues to masquerade as merely a descriptive word.


The change that matters comes from the heart more than the brain, or else even vegans can remain ignorant 'human beans'.
 
I'm fascinated by creatures of habit who do the same things day after day, year after year without ever breaking up the relentless monotony. For years I had been told by vegetarians how much better they felt due to their lifestyle, and I ignored them. Later in life I went vegan for a few months as an experiment and I was shocked at how much better I felt. Quantum leap better! I've stuck with it.

You are eating way more than just animal flesh when you eat meat. You're eating carcinogens, growth hormones, antibiotics you don't need, and God knows what else. People who eat meat 3 times a day are like coke-fiends or compulsive masturbators. If there is ever a truly serious meat shortage they'll be looking at you and licking their lips in anticipation. Long pig tonight!

Sounds like you read this recently too?

Today, 10 calories of oil are in every calorie of food. Without oil, there is no food. The oil does not even need to “run out”. It is enough if we can no longer afford it or if the producing countries simply do not want to or can no longer supply it.

Or the transport routes fail, the farmers go broke, the freighters no longer run, the JIT logistics fail, etc.

The greatest danger: On the one hand, hunger does not kill immediately (i.e. the hungry person goes in search) and on the other hand, the stomach then takes control of its evolutionary-biological protuberance (aka. brain).

This offers plenty of room for scenarios, nature shows how little squeamish “hungry people” deal with each other without stockpiling.

The only consolation is that if we are going to have an abundance of one resource in the crisis, it will be “long pig”.



Morrissey is like a mesmerising rainbow as everything else comes toppling down :rainbow:
 
To the contrary, I was posting those links not as a defense of Israel but to dismantle your assertion that there’s any correlation between veganism and humanitarian empathy.

Maybe I’m wrong, but surely a percentage of those vegan soldiers are conscripted. Even if they are pacifist, they are forced to serve.


‘When Israeli students finish high school, most must serve two or three years in the country's defence forces. , the majority of young people are required to do their time.’
 

The change that matters comes from the heart more than the brain, or else even vegans can remain ignorant 'human beans'.

Or that there are simply vegans for dietary health reasons, and has little to do with the well being of animals, or even other living beings.
 

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