Morrissey Central "New keyboard player." (May 6, 2023)

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Camila Grey will play keyboards on the forthcoming Morrissey tour of Israel / Ireland / England.


No surprise.
FWD.



 
While it is a bit odd Alain was saying "see you in Dublin" just a few days before the new guitarist announcement, more than that pointing out to M suddenly hiring a new guitar player, it points to something happening in those few days, which caused Alain to leave and Moz to quickly get a new guitarist...
Well, considering she is a high profile Grammy winning guitarist I don’t think negotiations took place in a couple of days. As you see with Camila it takes some time to match schedules and work out the contract. So it would seem to me that right after the tour they approached her to be on the next tour.

True that it could be considered ‘shitty’ of Morrissey to not tell Alain, but then has he ever worked otherwise? And it’s not as if Alain was sacked or axed. He’s still part of the Morrissey set-up as part songwriter of the new album and who knows what the future may bring.

So of course they are still on good terms and let’s hope this remains so for a long time to come.
 
Well, considering she is a high profile Grammy winning guitarist I don’t think negotiations took place in a couple of days. As you see with Camila it takes some time to match schedules and work out the contract. So it would seem to me that right after the tour they approached her to be on the next tour.

True that it could be considered ‘shitty’ of Morrissey to not tell Alain, but then has he ever worked otherwise? And it’s not as if Alain was sacked or axed. He’s still part of the Morrissey set-up as part songwriter of the new album and who knows what the future may bring.

So of course they are still on good terms and let’s hope this remains so for a long time to come.
Seems like a lot of assumptions to me. That M has behaved so poorly and that Alain and Dneuer are simply making up the whole story, which would be pretty absurd. All based only on Carmen joining seemingly very quickly.

I think Occam’s says Carmen simply happened to be available for the dates and it all fell into place.
 
Seems like a lot of assumptions to me. That M has behaved so poorly and that Alain and Dneuer are simply making up the whole story, which would be pretty absurd. All based only on Carmen joining seemingly very quickly.

I think Occam’s says Carmen simply happened to be available for the dates and it all fell into place.
Nobody says they are making it up. All I’m saying is they quit after they heard that a new guitarist was going to be brought in.

You seem to think that it’s coincidence that we now have two female new members in the band.
It seems pretty obvious to me that this is a planned move, to make some changes.

The only question is who came with up with this idea. Morrissey himself or management/Jesse, in which case Alain’s anger and frustration would definitely be understandable.
 
Another thought for the pot. When most people leave the M camp, they do it discreetly and move on to other things, they take the high road.

Can you really imagine someone with an ego like Jesse drifting quietly away, if he was confronted and things didn't work out? I can't. I think if Jesse was asked to leave, he would make sure to burn the house down on his way out. He would have a public meltdown and everything M ever said in drink, in anger, every unpleasant detail would be out there for the world to see. Maybe that's why it's not as easy to resolve the issue as we might think.

I can't find it right now but I saw a social media post by Alain a few days ago with a photo of him and Gus, captioned 'one man's loss is another's gain', and tagged with Morrissey's name! So who's not leaving quietly? To me, this kind of loose talk is like they're cursing themselves. If you're gonna jump, then jump.

What people post when friends of those involved is best taken with a grain of salt. There's a lot we don't know, and maybe isn't our business to know.

Alain most likely would not have returned to the band at all except that Boz left, whenever he did. So Alain would presumably have had other plans for the time he went touring that he put aside for a period determined or not. They're all creative individuals who can turn to new goals when the unexpected happens. Here's wishing every one of them exciting fulfilling times ahead :guitar:
 
Alain most likely would not have returned to the band at all except that Boz left, whenever he did. So Alain would presumably have had other plans for the time he went touring that he put aside for a period determined or not. They're all creative individuals who can turn to new goals when the unexpected happens. Here's wishing every one of them exciting fulfilling times ahead :guitar:
Yeah, he had that odd group all ready to hit the road which I think was him, Spencer Cobrin, Gary Day and bizarrely Craig Gannon. It was going to be aa 30th anniversary of the Kill Uncle tour but lockdown forced a delay, and then he went and worked with Morrissey again.
One odd thing is how little interest the press has shown in a) Alain and Morrissey working again together and b) parting ways. I don't think I saw a single mention in any music mag or website.
 
Yeah, he had that odd group all ready to hit the road which I think was him, Spencer Cobrin, Gary Day and bizarrely Craig Gannon. It was going to be aa 30th anniversary of the Kill Uncle tour but lockdown forced a delay, and then he went and worked with Morrissey again.

One odd thing is how little interest the press has shown in a) Alain and Morrissey working again together and b) parting ways. I don't think I saw a single mention in any music mag or website.

thing is, except for Street to some extent. I don’t think much of the press has ever paid much interest in Morrissey’s co-writers the same way they do M/Marr, unfortunately. So their lack of interest here is not surprising.
Any thoughts?
 
I can't find it right now but I saw a social media post by Alain a few days ago with a photo of him and Gus, captioned 'one man's loss is another's gain', and tagged with Morrissey's name! So who's not leaving quietly? To me, this kind of loose talk is like they're cursing themselves. If you're gonna jump, then jump.

What people post when friends of those involved is best taken with a grain of salt. There's a lot we don't know, and maybe isn't our business to know.

Alain most likely would not have returned to the band at all except that Boz left, whenever he did. So Alain would presumably have had other plans for the time he went touring that he put aside for a period determined or not. They're all creative individuals who can turn to new goals when the unexpected happens. Here's wishing every one of them exciting fulfilling times ahead :guitar:
I think that might have been a story on Dneuer's Instagram. But yeah, obviously that "one man's loss is another man's gain" meant something...
 
It seemed an appropriate monicker, with emphasis on the surname, considering the unwarranted, but consistent actions. Possibly provides a hint of insight as to the types of things that led to good people leaving the band with the likelihood others will follow at some point.
It’s just very sad maddening to read that Morrissey puts.his faith into the hands of the wrong people. His self-destructive instincts always get him into trouble.
It is interesting to note that mr Petty was also Morrissey’s tour manager between 2011 and 2015, and there was no mass exodus of band members at the time. But people may change over time.
Hey, for me Alain's return was terrific considering that we lost Matt W. I think he was disappointed in the direction the band was heading (for what are probably numerous reasons) and withdrew. Then, his position in the live band was filled by a virtuosic guitarist who shreds (which that itself doesn't entirely fit with Morrissey's 'sound' since 1982). P.S. - was also looking forward to a more Alain-driven/Band LP, moving away from Dog/Cali Son/BOT.

Interestingly, the live band only just recently had three guitar players that you knew (counting Manzur). Now we're down to one familiar face (Tobias). They played Kiss Me A Lot on Larry King within the last 10 years, and Morrissey referred to his band then as 'not just studio musicians - we love each other'. :rolleyes:
The moments when the three of them played guitar together, like on The Loop, WMTWD, Half a person, were some of my highlights on the last tours. Also adored their version of Please x3, it nearly moved me. I don’t need keyboards on every song, so the fact that Gustavo turned out to be a great guitar player as well was just priceless.
 
...as you can see from their visit to James Dean museum...
Notably, in Alain's FB post sharing the visit, he included a picture of a page from the James Dean Museum guestbook that Morrissey signed during the "Suedehead" shoot in February 1988. Alain referred to him in the caption as "my friend," which, at face value, would seem to indicate that he and M parted amicably.
Another thought for the pot. When most people leave the M camp, they do it discreetly and move on to other things, they take the high road.

Can you really imagine someone with an ego like Jesse drifting quietly away, if he was confronted and things didn't work out? I can't. I think if Jesse was asked to leave, he would make sure to burn the house down on his way out. He would have a public meltdown and everything M ever said in drink, in anger, every unpleasant detail would be out there for the world to see. Maybe that's why it's not as easy to resolve the issue as we might think.
My gut feeling is that the roots of Jesse's sense of entitlement - for lack of a better word - chiefly came from:

1. All four of the Ringleader singles were chosen from his co-writes - this after Alain had contributed co-writes to all four Quarry singles.
2. Morrissey featuring him on camera - at points awkwardly - for the Les Inrockuptibles interview at the time of Ringleader's release. He allowed Th'Lads to sit in on the Hangin' With MTV interview in 1992 but - to my knowledge -he never "featured" Alain or Boz in such a notable way. The effect, intentional or not, was "here's my favorite."

I know M claimed in Autobiography that his friendship with Alain "curdled" - but Alain was on the record in interviews at the time that he was glad to be asked back for Ringleader and wanted to tour in spite of his efforts to launch Red Lightning at the time. I can't blame Jesse for ingratiating himself to Morrissey and, to some degree, a true friendship has developed over time. But it cannot be overlooked that those choices/developments had to deal a negative blow to Morrissey's partnership with Alain. Plus, if the rumors are true that Boz "dismissed" Alain from the Refusal sessions, there can only be one source of the directive.
Yes. One of the strangest constellations ever. Alain didn't like to be part of the band anymore in 2004, then played guitar on ROTT, composed and appeared in videos as a drummer, only to write a few pieces on Refusal and disappear completely.

I don't know what you're basing the first statement on. When Boz's "Tour Diary" used to be available on his old website, Alain had been in contact with Boz and Lyn between his departure after Dublin Castle and prior to the UK festival dates in August 2004 then subsequently prior to the U.S. tour in fall 2004. I recall Boz saying he was "raring to go," or something to that effect. Alain had had some combination of personal and health issues that prevented him from continuing the tour - it wasn't from any lack of desire.

And he didn't just write "a few pieces" on Refusal: he wrote five tracks to Boz's and Jesse's three apiece, as well as three contemporary B-sides (if you include "My Dearest Love," which was recorded at the same time) and at least four other unfinished tracks ("Teresa, Teresa," "I'm Looking Forward To Going Back," "When I Was Young," "I Was Bully, Do Not Forget Me"). Per usual, Alain's co-writes comprised the vast majority - essentially, a full album's worth of material in all. To be excluded from performing on that much of one's material had to be more than a bit galling, especially after the the goodwill/faith Your Arsenal, Vauxhall And I and You Are The Quarry alone should have merited.
 
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Yes. One of the strangest constellations ever. Alain didn't like to be part of the band anymore in 2004, then played guitar on ROTT, composed and appeared in videos as a drummer, only to write a few pieces on Refusal and disappear completely. It was never really explained and the fact that he literally threw himself at Morrissey during the Lockdown sessions, where the door was never completely closed anyway, only to end up back in the band is curious enough. Everyone thought it was just for visa reasons for the LA gigs but then everything seemed to fit and in the end he's gone again and no one knows exactly who's to blame. I find it hard to believe that it's all down to this ominous tour manager and maybe the nephew. Maybe Tobias didn't like the empathy Whyte received live and I don't want to neglect the fact, that Morrissey didn't play any of the new Alain songs live now, which might have left some bruised egos in the background.
To pick up on your last sentence, yes it was strange that none of AWs new co-writes were played on the last tour. Was that another signs of tensions and jealousy between the different songwriters?
 
Morrissey featuring him on camera - at points awkwardly - for the Les Inrockuptibles interview at the time of Ringleader's release. He allowed Th'Lads to sit in on the Hangin' With MTV interview in 1992 but - to my knowledge -he never "featured" Alain or Boz in such a notable way. The effect, intentional or not, was "here's my favorite."
See also dancing intimately with Jesse in the 'Ganglord' video. Clearly, Morrissey has seen something in Jesse from the start, and always looked upon him with favour. What that attraction is, and whether it's based on his musical contributions/guitar playing ability or just that Moz likes the image of 'a bit of rough', who knows?
 
Yeah, he had that odd group all ready to hit the road which I think was him, Spencer Cobrin, Gary Day and bizarrely Craig Gannon. It was going to be aa 30th anniversary of the Kill Uncle tour but lockdown forced a delay, and then he went and worked with Morrissey again.
One odd thing is how little interest the press has shown in a) Alain and Morrissey working again together and b) parting ways. I don't think I saw a single mention in any music mag or website.
Maybe because the Central posts are careful enough to just mention the new names, and not the names of whom they are replacing? There’s also a general tendency among journalists to no longer take the time to dig deeper or think through the implications. And maybe (and very unfortunately) the overall interest in Morrissey’s music has waned as well.
 
don’t know about that. But, I wouldn’t be surprised if we heard one of these at the next shows, but of course it won’t be played by Alain. :( And if this were the case, people will of course wonder if it was an intentional choice on M’s part.
Well, it’s anybody’s guess which songs will be played on the next tour, but it would be very cynical if he did play one of Alain’s new songs on the next tour.
 
How quickly this all went downhill is amazing (and sad) to see - from having Alain back and the best set of shows he's played for a looooong time to.... this.

This is "eh, whatever" on its own, but Alain leaving as well as everything else all adds up - The band with Alain added (back) so much.
And Morrissey is too afraid of conflict to deal with anything so he just announces new band members and his work is done. The new band members announcements are kind of an insult to the ones who left. I'm not suggesting it's an intentional insult mind you. But he does seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that to us fans Alain leaving is huge. Oh well not to worry we have a girl to replace him.
 
When does Classically Smiths begin?
 
Well, it’s anybody’s guess which songs will be played on the next tour, but it would be very cynical if he did play one of Alain’s new songs on the next tour.

yeah, don’t know about cynical, others would probably call him a prick for doing so, lol.

And as you say, it’s anybody’s guess about what songs will be done. Though with the new members, and the time it takes to learn new songs, I imagine there’ll be less or no changes of the set during the next shows.

But getting back to your other post, I actually think Morrissey didn’t choose an Alain song on the last tour simply because he believed that that is what was expected he do by his fans. In the same way he didn’t play the song ‘Paris’ while performing in Paris.
 

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