Music Radar: John Porter on shaping The Smiths’ most iconic tracks, and why he’s auctioning a treasure trove of original acetates (January 22, 2025)

“I don't think Morrissey liked me. I don't think he liked my friendship with Johnny”: Producer John Porter on shaping The Smiths’ most iconic tracks, and why he’s auctioning a treasure trove of original acetates

“I don't think Morrissey liked me. I don't think he liked my friendship with Johnny”: Producer John Porter on shaping The Smiths’ most iconic tracks, and why he’s auctioning a treasure trove of original acetates

John found a huge collection of original acetates and mixes of many Smiths’ classics unplayed since the 1980s

www.musicradar.com

https://archive.is/GMdHq

(Archived version)

Very interesting recent interview stemming from the upcoming auction.
FWD.

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Related item:

• Wessex Auction Rooms - The John Porter Collection - Auction: January 24, 2025

 

[Redacted]

It's like you're trying to shut down free speech. What gets tiring are the tireless defenders of Morrissey who can't accept that maybe some people don't like him b/c he didn't treat them well (or at least that's how they genuinely feel). He should say whatever he wants to say on the subject - it's his right. Just as it's yours to ignore it or not take it seriously.

Totally agree, it's beyond tiresome. Only Morrissey is entitled to free speech. I agree people should speak out about their experiences with him and those who do not like it can ignore it. I also think they should just ignore criticism of Morrissey by other people as well, if it bothers them.

 

[Redacted]

I don't think it is always 'them'. Even Street said working with Moz is like walking on eggshells.

I feel like Morrissey's very sensitive and he's overly protective of himself and those he cares for. At that time, it was the band, especially Marr. However, Street wasn't flippant about Morrissey and can recall good times with him. Why couldn't Porter do the same? Why dish out the same old, "oh Moz didn't like me" or "Moz didn't like my friendship with Marr" and "I don't like the guy"? I just feel like the negativity is blazing and it doesn't have to be, but it seems like that's all people want to focus on when remembering the Smiths and it's hardened Morrissey over time. That's why we have an album called Viva Hate and it's also why Morrissey refers to 1988 as 198-hate. He felt hated.


Even you stated it: Marr is affable and Morrissey is difficult. News Flash. Something like that, anyway. As in, yeah - we get it.

It gets tiring after a while, but no, he shouldn't self censor. He should continue to talk about how Morrissey's eyes glazed over while all the other Smiths were quick to learn and had that special "spark". I dare say that spark got them far after Johnny up and left, though. Looks like Moz is the one who set everyone on fire.

I feel like there's a Marr vs. Morrissey movement about to happen. I know someone personally who is exactly like Johnny Marr. She was my best friend. She'd sacrifice anything just as long as she is the center of attention and known as the one who made it all work. The good egg.

Morrissey says that everything we need to know is in his songs. You can see what I'm talking about here in bold from your post.

You realize how silly you sound, right?

 

[Dorothy]

I think what is frustrating is that the clickbaity type headline detracts from the genuinely interesting information in the interview. You only have to look at the comments e.g. under the NME article when they reposted the interview to see that people just read the headline and use it as an opportunity to insult Morrissey, and they are not at all interested in anything else mentioned, which is a pity.

 

[gashonthenail]

I think what is frustrating is that the clickbaity type headline detracts from the genuinely interesting information in the interview. You only have to look at the comments e.g. under the NME article when they reposted the interview to see that people just read the headline and use it as an opportunity to insult Morrissey, and they are not at all interested in anything else mentioned, which is a pity.

Would Morrissey be annoyed at being described as 'difficult' though? I don't think so. I think it all just adds to the mystique. He had a pic of Maria Callas in that 'in memoriam' list - someone who was notorious as 'difficult' and a 'diva'. I think Morrissey has always aspired to be viewed in that artistic territory.
Whereas Johnny - he wants to be seen as the nice guy. I wonder is he really though? We all project an image to the world, don't we? We all wear a mask. In this clip of how HE created the sound of How Soon Is Now, there is no mention of John Porter. I wonder what the truth of it all actually was?

 

[Gray Fruit]

I don't think it is always 'them'. Even Street said working with Moz is like walking on eggshells.

I feel like Morrissey's very sensitive and he's overly protective of himself and those he cares for. At that time, it was the band, especially Marr. However, Street wasn't flippant about Morrissey and can recall good times with him. Why couldn't Porter do the same? Why dish out the same old, "oh Moz didn't like me" or "Moz didn't like my friendship with Marr" and "I don't like the guy"? I just feel like the negativity is blazing and it doesn't have to be, but it seems like that's all people want to focus on when remembering the Smiths and it's hardened Morrissey over time. That's why we have an album called Viva Hate and it's also why Morrissey refers to 1988 as 198-hate. He felt hated.


Even you stated it: Marr is affable and Morrissey is difficult. News Flash. Something like that, anyway. As in, yeah - we get it.

It gets tiring after a while, but no, he shouldn't self censor. He should continue to talk about how Morrissey's eyes glazed over while all the other Smiths were quick to learn and had that special "spark". I dare say that spark got them far after Johnny up and left, though. Looks like Moz is the one who set everyone on fire.

I feel like there's a Marr vs. Morrissey movement about to happen. I know someone personally who is exactly like Johnny Marr. She was my best friend. She'd sacrifice anything just as long as she is the center of attention and known as the one who made it all work. The good egg.

Morrissey says that everything we need to know is in his songs. You can see what I'm talking about here in bold from your post.

I think it's time you woke up and smelled the coffee. Morrissey is not the dreamy, sweet, sensitive boy he projected out into the world. It was just a concocted rock'n'roll fantasy. It was very effective and worked a charm, however that Morrissey was never real. If you don't want a glimpse behind the curtain, just stick to the music. He's not a nice man at all. That's why the Smiths really broke up.

And this part "I know someone personally who is exactly like Johnny Marr. She was my best friend. She'd sacrifice anything just as long as she is the center of attention and known as the one who made it all work. The good egg." If you think Johnny was the center of attention in the Smiths, that's laughable. Who was on the covers of all the magazines? It was Morrissey, he was the face and the voice of the Smiths. Johnny was lucky if he got a quote in an article, usually he was mentioned as one of the band. It's only recently that Johnny's really gotten his due and that sure seems to bother a lot of people.

 

[gashonthenail]

I'll have to listen again as it's been years since I've heard it. No question the Porter version is better but I do recall preferring a couple of the Troy Tate songs. It's easy to compare both and come to the conclusion that Porter's is better... but if you only had one - Troy Tate's - it's harder to say. If it had been Troy Tate's version released - maybe the debut wouldn't have been as well regarded - but they would have recovered with Hatful and MiM. In other words, I don't think it would have been a huge disaster for them.

Ok, perhaps not dead on arrival, but I don't think the TT album would have made them the hottest new band in the UK, as the JP album did. If their debut had stalled and been a flop, is it possible that things might have been very different? We will never know, of course, it's all what ifs.

 

[Amy]

I don't think it is always 'them'. Even Street said working with Moz is like walking on eggshells.

I feel like Morrissey's very sensitive and he's overly protective of himself and those he cares for. At that time, it was the band, especially Marr. However, Street wasn't flippant about Morrissey and can recall good times with him. Why couldn't Porter do the same? Why dish out the same old, "oh Moz didn't like me" or "Moz didn't like my friendship with Marr" and "I don't like the guy"? I just feel like the negativity is blazing and it doesn't have to be, but it seems like that's all people want to focus on when remembering the Smiths and it's hardened Morrissey over time. That's why we have an album called Viva Hate and it's also why Morrissey refers to 1988 as 198-hate. He felt hated.


Even you stated it: Marr is affable and Morrissey is difficult. News Flash. Something like that, anyway. As in, yeah - we get it.

It gets tiring after a while, but no, he shouldn't self censor. He should continue to talk about how Morrissey's eyes glazed over while all the other Smiths were quick to learn and had that special "spark". I dare say that spark got them far after Johnny up and left, though. Looks like Moz is the one who set everyone on fire.

I feel like there's a Marr vs. Morrissey movement about to happen. I know someone personally who is exactly like Johnny Marr. She was my best friend. She'd sacrifice anything just as long as she is the center of attention and known as the one who made it all work. The good egg.

Morrissey says that everything we need to know is in his songs. You can see what I'm talking about here in bold from your post.

Tell me - why is it that Morrissey gets to rip Porter to shreds in his book, but Porter can't give his side? Or Geoff Travis, or Joe Moss, or dozens of others that Morrissey mercilessly stuck the knife in after they tried for years to help him?

In 1983, there was no narrative against Morrissey and nobody "out to get him". He just lacked social skills, didn't know how to handle other people well, and could be abrasive. Of course that doesn't make him a bad guy but 40 years of it, for anyone, will get you to a point where your Christmas card list is very short.

If you need to think that Johnny is only liked because he seeks attention and wants to be a good egg, well... I think you need to mature a little. The reality is that he simply treated the people around him better than Morrissey did, kept his friends and didn't devote his memoir to settling scores and slagging off all the people who helped him get a good start. Mary Hynes, one of Johnny's childhood teachers, came to his book launch and got a nice pic and a public thank you.

Morrissey described one of his own teachers as "destined to die smelling of attics".

Most people will treat you how you treat them. And for all his difficulties, Morrissey isn't a victim - he's a man with a very sharp tongue, and no qualms about firing people or being cruel to those who get in his way. If he ever had the insight to look back and apologise to the people he treated poorly on his journey to greatness, he might not be the bitter Billy-no-Mates that he is now, on the way back down.

 

[Les Tameside]

Would Morrissey be annoyed at being described as 'difficult' though? I don't think so. I think it all just adds to the mystique. He had a pic of Maria Callas in that 'in memoriam' list - someone who was notorious as 'difficult' and a 'diva'. I think Morrissey has always aspired to be viewed in that artistic territory.
Whereas Johnny - he wants to be seen as the nice guy. I wonder is he really though? We all project an image to the world, don't we? We all wear a mask. In this clip of how HE created the sound of How Soon Is Now, there is no mention of John Porter. I wonder what the truth of it all actually was?

Johnny Marr is pleasant. I think, as a fan, one is of course aware that he’s aware of managing expectations in any interface: No one supposes they’re getting direct access to his soul in any meeting.

But people do appreciate that he’s generous enough to unproblematically share a few minutes and memories with people—and has been for decades, without it wearing him down.

He loves music, and he loves the impact his music makes on people. Scarcely the devil’s work to enjoy meeting fans and journalists with that at the front of his mind.

 

[Johnnie Ray]

my hurling days
mt joy
smiler with knife
darling i hug a pillow
what kind of people
the girl from tel-aviv who wouldnt kneel

as well as song that just have great poetic line like i wish you lonely or im jim falls with it felled up from heel line. lots of songs still mix pop and poetry

Interesting. I do not like any of those songs and never play them unless they pop up on shuffle.

 

[Johnnie Ray]

Going off-topic I imagine - but I think Moz has always veered from the poetic to the pop, and back again. It's what he does so well. High art as pop. Pop as high art.

Is it fair to say he could never write a song as good as The Hand That Rocks The Cradle ever again? That he may now suffer from writer's block which yields stuff like Notre Dame?

 

[Trans]

Interesting. I do not like any of those songs and never play them unless they pop up on shuffle.

They read as very very poetic. What kind of people has great inventive word play and hurling days brings me to tears. Might not like them as songs but it pretty poetic

 

[Johnnie Ray]

They read as very very poetic. What kind of people has great inventive word play and hurling days brings me to tears. Might not like them as songs but it pretty poetic

Fair enough. Ironically, of the songs you listed, What Kind Of People Live In These Houses is my favorite but as far as poetry, I think it would qualify as intentionally bad poetry.

 

[gashonthenail]

Is it fair to say he could never write a song as good as The Hand That Rocks The Cradle ever again? That he may now suffer from writer's block which yields stuff like Notre Dame?

Who knows? He was a young man back then. He is 65 now. Creativity does change with age. Few lyricists and singers do their best work in old age. Pop is a domain of the young. I do think Bonfire sounds like a great album though - from what I've heard live.

 

[Anonymous]

I am a little surprised that John Porter remembers the detail he does about recording the sessions but not where he put the bloody tapes/acetates! I've nothing against him voicing his memories (as currently recalled) but I think it's important to remember there was a great deal of momentum built up by (1) having such great songs, as written by Morrissey/Marr, and (2) Morrissey's personality in the publicity he did in the second half of 1983. I think the impetus was there for them to take off regardless and HoH supports this, whether produced by John Porter, Roger Pusey or Dale Griffin, having delayed and endangered their position by rejecting the Troy Tate sessions. The quality of bootlegs available at that time gave little insight into this decision to the building army of fans - they just wanted official studio output. Where John Porter's input undoubtedly lay was that Johnny learnt from the experience sufficiently for the follow-up MiM to capitalise on that interest.

 

[Tim0thy_james]

I am a little surprised that John Porter remembers the detail he does about recording the sessions but not where he put the bloody tapes/acetates! I've nothing against him voicing his memories (as currently recalled) but I think it's important to remember there was a great deal of momentum built up by (1) having such great songs, as written by Morrissey/Marr, and (2) Morrissey's personality in the publicity he did in the second half of 1983. I think the impetus was there for them to take off regardless and HoH supports this, whether produced by John Porter, Roger Pusey or Dale Griffin, having delayed and endangered their position by rejecting the Troy Tate sessions. The quality of bootlegs available at that time gave little insight into this decision to the building army of fans - they just wanted official studio output. Where John Porter's input undoubtedly lay was that Johnny learnt from the experience sufficiently for the follow-up MiM to capitalise on that interest.

 

[hand in glove]

Tell me - why is it that Morrissey gets to rip Porter to shreds in his book, but Porter can't give his side? Or Geoff Travis, or Joe Moss, or dozens of others that Morrissey mercilessly stuck the knife in after they tried for years to help him?

In 1983, there was no narrative against Morrissey and nobody "out to get him". He just lacked social skills, didn't know how to handle other people well, and could be abrasive. Of course that doesn't make him a bad guy but 40 years of it, for anyone, will get you to a point where your Christmas card list is very short.

If you need to think that Johnny is only liked because he seeks attention and wants to be a good egg, well... I think you need to mature a little. The reality is that he simply treated the people around him better than Morrissey did, kept his friends and didn't devote his memoir to settling scores and slagging off all the people who helped him get a good start. Mary Hynes, one of Johnny's childhood teachers, came to his book launch and got a nice pic and a public thank you.

View attachment 151144
Morrissey described one of his own teachers as "destined to die smelling of attics".

Most people will treat you how you treat them. And for all his difficulties, Morrissey isn't a victim - he's a man with a very sharp tongue, and no qualms about firing people or being cruel to those who get in his way. If he ever had the insight to look back and apologise to the people he treated poorly on his journey to greatness, he might not be the bitter Billy-no-Mates that he is now, on the way back down.

I don't care whether or not Johnny liked his teachers. There was really no need in adding that bit to this reply or this silly picture. So what? Who cares? Did you feel the need to put that there for added measure? I mean, why else would you?

All Morrissey basically said in his book is that he felt that Porter made the music flat and, yes, he was suspicious of what he might be up to in regards of his influence on Johnny, but that is because Morrissey had a clear understanding of what he wanted the Smiths to be and that should have been worked out between him and Marr. He did not rip Porter to shreds nor did he "mercilessly stick his knife in", either. A bit dramatic! He just felt that the album failed everyone because the songs did not sound as good and powerful as the end result after Porter got a hold of the music. He also admitted that people acted odd around him because of the way he handled things. So, maybe he twisted the knife on himself a bit, too.

NONE OF US WERE THERE. We see both sides and we choose who we want to believe. I get where Morrissey is coming from. I understand Autobiography well, and his feelings of what others might have been up to behind his back, including Marr, who didn't help matters by skipping out in the end. In fact, the way the whole damn thing ended proved Moz right.

We see what Marr wants us to see. He puts on airs. At least Moz tells it like it is, or how he sees it, and if that makes people dislike him, well, hey, he's an adult and he's true to himself, and perhaps that's all that matters to him. I don't think he owes anyone an apology, but if he feels the need to, then I'd support it. However, just remember, in the end you are just as blind as I am because, again, you weren't there, and you only see what Marr puts out there and that's what you choose to believe. He probably smiles and has a laugh with loads of people he'd rather see fall from the face of the earth. I don't have any use for people like that.

I don't have anything else to say on this subject. This is my opinion. It is not a popular one, but...you guessed it...I don't care.

 

[hand in glove]

I think it's time you woke up and smelled the coffee. Morrissey is not the dreamy, sweet, sensitive boy he projected out into the world. It was just a concocted rock'n'roll fantasy. It was very effective and worked a charm, however that Morrissey was never real. If you don't want a glimpse behind the curtain, just stick to the music. He's not a nice man at all. That's why the Smiths really broke up.

And this part "I know someone personally who is exactly like Johnny Marr. She was my best friend. She'd sacrifice anything just as long as she is the center of attention and known as the one who made it all work. The good egg." If you think Johnny was the center of attention in the Smiths, that's laughable. Who was on the covers of all the magazines? It was Morrissey, he was the face and the voice of the Smiths. Johnny was lucky if he got a quote in an article, usually he was mentioned as one of the band. It's only recently that Johnny's really gotten his due and that sure seems to bother a lot of people.

No. I don't think Johnny was the center of attention. I said he wants to be. Especially now since they're considered to be one of the most influential bands in alternative music history. Before then, though, Johnny didn't give a toss.

Sorry, but Morrissey IS and will ALWAYS BE the Smiths. Without him they would have been nothing.

 

[hand in glove]

It's like you're trying to shut down free speech. What gets tiring are the tireless defenders of Morrissey who can't accept that maybe some people don't like him b/c he didn't treat them well (or at least that's how they genuinely feel). He should say whatever he wants to say on the subject - it's his right. Just as it's yours to ignore it or not take it seriously.

Shut down free speech? No, that's very silly. What I'm saying is, let's move on and talk about the music as that's what's supposed to matter.

 

[Surface]

I don't care whether or not Johnny liked his teachers. There was really no need in adding that bit to this reply or this silly picture. So what? Who cares? Did you feel the need to put that there for added measure? I mean, why else would you?

All Morrissey basically said in his book is that he felt that Porter made the music flat and, yes, he was suspicious of what he might be up to in regards of his influence on Johnny, but that is because Morrissey had a clear understanding of what he wanted the Smiths to be and that should have been worked out between him and Marr. He did not rip Porter to shreds nor did he "mercilessly stick his knife in", either. A bit dramatic! He just felt that the album failed everyone because the songs did not sound as good and powerful as the end result after Porter got a hold of the music. He also admitted that people acted odd around him because of the way he handled things. So, maybe he twisted the knife on himself a bit, too.

NONE OF US WERE THERE. We see both sides and we choose who we want to believe. I get where Morrissey is coming from. I understand Autobiography well, and his feelings of what others might have been up to behind his back, including Marr, who didn't help matters by skipping out in the end. In fact, the way the whole damn thing ended proved Moz right.

We see what Marr wants us to see. He puts on airs. At least Moz tells it like it is, or how he sees it, and if that makes people dislike him, well, hey, he's an adult and he's true to himself, and perhaps that's all that matters to him. I don't think he owes anyone an apology, but if he feels the need to, then I'd support it. However, just remember, in the end you are just as blind as I am because, again, you weren't there, and you only see what Marr puts out there and that's what you choose to believe. He probably smiles and has a laugh with loads of people he'd rather see fall from the face of the earth. I don't have any use for people like that.

I don't have anything else to say on this subject. This is my opinion. It is not a popular one, but...you guessed it...I don't care.

There are lots of people around here who know Johnny well and there’s never a bad word said about him. There’s a shop in Altrincham called Flannels where he buys some of his clothes and the staff in there say he’s always got time for anyone who approaches him. Added to that his band members have been with him for 10 years and Iwan also plays with Sea Fever who also include a couple of the New Order guys who also have nothing but admiration for Johnny and the way he is with people.

 

[gordyboy9]

I think what is frustrating is that the clickbaity type headline detracts from the genuinely interesting information in the interview. You only have to look at the comments e.g. under the NME article when they reposted the interview to see that people just read the headline and use it as an opportunity to insult Morrissey, and they are not at all interested in anything else mentioned, which is a pity.

your right dorothy there was some good stuff in there about roxy as well but they pick out one line which puts M in a bad light.