Post Millennial: "Morrissey: How did the ultimate anti-establishment artist make it against all odds?" by Fiona Dodwell (October 17, 2020)

"We have become acclimatized to safe public figures who brand themselves as a commodity like a soft drink, palatable at first but devoid of any substantial nourishment."

Morrissey: How did the ultimate anti-establishment artist make it against all odds?

We have become acclimatized to safe public figures who brand themselves as a commodity like a soft drink, palatable at first but devoid of any substantial nourishment.

thepostmillennial.com

FWD.

---

UPDATE Oct. 18:

Posted by Nerak:

It's now linked on Central.

THERE IS A PLACE - MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY - MORRISSEY CENTRAL - THERE IS A PLACE

MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY on MORRISSEY CENTRAL

www.morrisseycentral.com

With a Linder photo.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Marr's last album achieved massively higher critical acclaim than Morrissey's too. 78/100 compared with Dog on a Chain's 62.
He's out performing Morrissey in pretty much every area - sales, airplay, critical acclaim, size of fanbase.
It's incredible, really, that the guitarist from the Smiths is now a more successful singer than the singer from the Smiths.

The pandemic and no promotion would hinder the numbers.


Anyway, I repeat .....

Album sales are not the measure of an artists genius and importance.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

If you seriously think Morrissey isn’t regularly quoted and referred to in the arts, you’re as daft as you seem. Jesus wept.

 

[Deleted member 29417]

Okay, fair enough, and Morrissey is probably right by either definition - whether cultural/social/whatever or genetic, most people probably do prefer what they think is their own 'race'. But the above definition just emphasises how virtually meaningless the term 'race' is anyway. 'British' by the above definition is a term that encompasses all creeds and colours, which I doubt is what Morrissey believes it should signify. But if he was inclined to speak in terms of 'black' and 'white' people, those too are terms so broad as to be meaningless. Sure, they are useful shorthand for debates around prejudice in regard to skin tone, but I think they actually reinforce such prejudice by legitimising lazy/dismissive inclinations to view all darker skin tones, for example, as being the same and signifying a common origin/identity. We need to do away with the terms 'race' and 'black' and 'white' and find a whole new vocabulary for debating these kinds of social issues. Maybe if such a vocabulary was coined, then Morrissey's views wouldn't seem so extreme or irrational, or maybe on the other hand, if he was called on to express his views in less vague terms, they could be more accurately challenged and rebutted.

I think he's fine with British including all creeds & colours - he's said before that his issue is everywhere becoming generic & people fighting because they disagree over values.

His views aren't extreme & don't need rebutted - they're pretty standard apart from him wanting to smash the 2 party system & ban all abattoirs.

 

[Deleted member 29417]

The pandemic and no promotion would hinder the numbers.


Anyway, I repeat .....

Album sales are not the measure of an artists genius and importance.

A safe career working the circuit is completely meh - being so iconic people make you an actual pariah - that's showbiz success. Morrissey's a proper legend. Everyone else is a footnote.

 

[klaudrey]

What really upsets me is the self-righteousness of my former lyrical idol. And even worse, there are people who praise him for thoughts no one else expresses and label that as honesty or a perfect example for freedom of speech which he so often sees as a non-existent thing. When he said that the slaughtering of almost 90 people on a Norwegian island was "nothing compared to what happens in McDonald's and Kentucky Fried shit every day" he practiced freedom of speech, hurting people who lost their children in an act of blind hatred by a racist madman who saw "our Western Culture" threatened by immigration. No single Morrissey apologist seems to think that his words were not appropriate and that he would not have said such things in the wake of the Manchester-killings. It is disgusting. It is like Trump voters from the Evangelical circuit. He can do and say whatever he wants, there are people defending him. After the SPIEGEL incident ("Berlin is the rape-capital, because of refugees") I was shocked by his following video. It showed someone who once fascinated me with songs about self-pity and made his songs mine. If you think that the world rejects you for no reason, I identify with you completely. If people criticize you for what you say, because what you say is wrong or shows a lack of empathy for anyone but yourself, there IS a reason for being rejected. In Germany we had to witness the existence of a large group of pedophiles, doing things to children you don`t even want to imagine. It had nothing to do with immigration. Evil is a part of human nature, no matter where you come from. If Morrissey ever took responsibility for what he has ever said or done, instead of complaining like a stubborn child, you could still take him seriously and feel with him when he sings "I know I`m unloveable", which now, at least to me , he is. I will never stop listening to THE SMITHS and his best solo-stuff (Alain Whyte was his best co-writer after THE SMITHS), but I`m truly disappointed and I spent my whole life in ruins because of someone who I thought was nice. Honestly, I never wanted him to be nice: I wanted him to be someone to look up to, morally. He has turned into the opposite, but the music can`t be destroyed. If only someone could make him see.....The one who shuts all people up who criticize him even if they COULD be right has no right to complain or to consider himself a supporter of the freedom of speech, exercising the opposite! Articles like that make me sick. Why do I come here? People who say that should know that Morrissey hates this site, so stay away yourselves. It is liking checking on an old friend, hoping for things to get better. But, no, he`ll never change and this is a bad thing!

 

[Angelito]

Morrissey was right: "...journalists who lie, the truth is it happens." Only this time the lies being told are trying desperately to portray Morrissey in a better light. Trying, but failing.

Is this the "best friend on the payroll" Morrissey was referring to? This article has about as much merit as a research study funded by the tobacco industry declaring that cigarettes are a safe and healthy habit.

"...the usual baseless talk of racism and his political opinions..."
Oh, reeeally?? Please defend for us, dear Fiona, his pronouncement that "You can't help but feel that the Chinese are a subspecies." Or the lyrics to "Bengali in Platforms." Or songs with lines like "England for the English" and "this is not your country." His songs and interviews are littered with numerous examples of bigotry and ethnocentrism, which any honest journalist who did their due diligence would've easily uncovered.

"...they would wonder why his supporting of a party that believes in the equality of women, respect for all animals and a sensible approach to immigration has become, somehow, a nightmare of epic proportions..."
Sigh. The party Morrissey supports, "For Britain," is a far-right fascist party -- don't kid yourself otherwise. That Fiona should completely ignore the dark underbelly of "For Britain" is shameful.

"It seems particularly intriguing that Nile Marr wants to display public animosity towards the very artist who has afforded him a platform in the first place."
Utter rubbish. Nile owes nothing to Morrissey. Nile and his father immensely talented father would've gotten along just fine without that racist tool.

 

[Vegan Cro Spirit 555]

Morrissey was right: "...journalists who lie, the truth is it happens." Only this time the lies being told are trying desperately to portray Morrissey in a better light. Trying, but failing.

Is this the "best friend on the payroll" Morrissey was referring to? This article has about as much merit as a research study funded by the tobacco industry declaring that cigarettes are a safe and healthy habit.

"...the usual baseless talk of racism and his political opinions..."
Oh, reeeally?? Please defend for us, dear Fiona, his pronouncement that "You can't help but feel that the Chinese are a subspecies." Or the lyrics to "Bengali in Platforms." Or songs with lines like "England for the English" and "this is not your country." His songs and interviews are littered with numerous examples of bigotry and ethnocentrism, which any honest journalist who did their due diligence would've easily uncovered.

"...they would wonder why his supporting of a party that believes in the equality of women, respect for all animals and a sensible approach to immigration has become, somehow, a nightmare of epic proportions..."
Sigh. The party Morrissey supports, "For Britain," is a far-right fascist party -- don't kid yourself otherwise. That Fiona should completely ignore the dark underbelly of "For Britain" is shameful.

"It seems particularly intriguing that Nile Marr wants to display public animosity towards the very artist who has afforded him a platform in the first place."
Utter rubbish. Nile owes nothing to Morrissey. Nile and his father immensely talented father would've gotten along just fine without that racist tool.

all the mediocre fam feeds of Moz FFS.
now that Moz has pulled the plug on the cuck family they
have to sell the trinkets, which by the way, were bought with
Moz monies.

who paid for those sucko Jr Tshirts. Not daddy Sr Lepew, but Moz

 

[Deleted member 28251]

Morrissey was right: "...journalists who lie, the truth is it happens." Only this time the lies being told are trying desperately to portray Morrissey in a better light. Trying, but failing.

Is this the "best friend on the payroll" Morrissey was referring to? This article has about as much merit as a research study funded by the tobacco industry declaring that cigarettes are a safe and healthy habit.

"...the usual baseless talk of racism and his political opinions..."
Oh, reeeally?? Please defend for us, dear Fiona, his pronouncement that "You can't help but feel that the Chinese are a subspecies." Or the lyrics to "Bengali in Platforms." Or songs with lines like "England for the English" and "this is not your country." His songs and interviews are littered with numerous examples of bigotry and ethnocentrism, which any honest journalist who did their due diligence would've easily uncovered.

"...they would wonder why his supporting of a party that believes in the equality of women, respect for all animals and a sensible approach to immigration has become, somehow, a nightmare of epic proportions..."
Sigh. The party Morrissey supports, "For Britain," is a far-right fascist party -- don't kid yourself otherwise. That Fiona should completely ignore the dark underbelly of "For Britain" is shameful.

"It seems particularly intriguing that Nile Marr wants to display public animosity towards the very artist who has afforded him a platform in the first place."
Utter rubbish. Nile owes nothing to Morrissey. Nile and his father immensely talented father would've gotten along just fine without that racist tool.

It seems to me that your ideal art actually amounts to a kind of liberal propaganda.

 

[Anonymous]

I think he's fine with British including all creeds & colours - he's said before that his issue is everywhere becoming generic & people fighting because they disagree over values.

I don't think he is fine with Britain or 'British' including all creeds and colours at all - quite the opposite. I agree he has an outlook that everywhere is becoming generic, and I think he feels that that is a consequence of its becoming increasingly politically incorrect to express a strong sense of national identity. I think he sees the drive to represent all creeds and cultures contained within the British Isles as being representative of 'Britishness' as diluting Britain's sense of its national identity to the point where it is all things to all people and nothing in essence.

 

[Deleted member 29417]

Morrissey was right: "...journalists who lie, the truth is it happens." Only this time the lies being told are trying desperately to portray Morrissey in a better light. Trying, but failing.

Is this the "best friend on the payroll" Morrissey was referring to? This article has about as much merit as a research study funded by the tobacco industry declaring that cigarettes are a safe and healthy habit.

"...the usual baseless talk of racism and his political opinions..."
Oh, reeeally?? Please defend for us, dear Fiona, his pronouncement that "You can't help but feel that the Chinese are a subspecies." Or the lyrics to "Bengali in Platforms." Or songs with lines like "England for the English" and "this is not your country." His songs and interviews are littered with numerous examples of bigotry and ethnocentrism, which any honest journalist who did their due diligence would've easily uncovered.

"...they would wonder why his supporting of a party that believes in the equality of women, respect for all animals and a sensible approach to immigration has become, somehow, a nightmare of epic proportions..."
Sigh. The party Morrissey supports, "For Britain," is a far-right fascist party -- don't kid yourself otherwise. That Fiona should completely ignore the dark underbelly of "For Britain" is shameful.

"It seems particularly intriguing that Nile Marr wants to display public animosity towards the very artist who has afforded him a platform in the first place."
Utter rubbish. Nile owes nothing to Morrissey. Nile and his father immensely talented father would've gotten along just fine without that racist tool.

Maybe she's actually listened to Morrissey's songs instead of getting her opinions from Google.

This Is Not Your Country is about the troubles in Northern Ireland.

Bengali In Platforms is about fitting in somewhere new.

The National Front Disco is against the National Front & both of Morrissey's parents & his entire family at the time he was born apart from his sister are Irish. His mother was buried in Dublin.

And I doubt your insight into British politics is any stronger. She's a peculiar case.

 

[Angelito]

It seems to me that your ideal art actually amounts to a kind of liberal propaganda.

My post suggests no such thing.

As I've said before, I love the art Morrissey and The Smiths created. Even if he's now changed (or perhaps, more accurately, revealing his true colors), my love for the music remains. I'm in no way obliged to like the man himself, however. The same hold true for Richard Wagner's music and others. Great art... not so great people.

 

[Angelito]

Maybe she's actually listened to Morrissey's songs instead of getting her opinions from Google.

This Is Not Your Country is about the troubles in Northern Ireland.

Bengali In Platforms is about fitting in somewhere new.

The National Front Disco is against the National Front & both of Morrissey's parents & his entire family at the time he was born apart from his sister are Irish. His mother was buried in Dublin.

And I doubt your insight into British politics is any stronger. She's a peculiar case.

I've listened to Morrissey's music since the 1980s -- but what's more, I've actually HEARD what he's communicating in some of his songs. As for your defense of his songs, are subtext, innuendo, allusion, and metaphor completely lost on you? You (and the article's author) may listen to the music, but you're otherwise deaf to it if you think those lyrics are innocuous.

Getting my opinion from Google? It's called research and vetting facts from credible, reliable sources -- of which the Post Millennial is not one.

 

[Deleted member 29417]

What really upsets me is the self-righteousness of my former lyrical idol. And even worse, there are people who praise him for thoughts no one else expresses and label that as honesty or a perfect example for freedom of speech which he so often sees as a non-existent thing. When he said that the slaughtering of almost 90 people on a Norwegian island was "nothing compared to what happens in McDonald's and Kentucky Fried shit every day" he practiced freedom of speech, hurting people who lost their children in an act of blind hatred by a racist madman who saw "our Western Culture" threatened by immigration. No single Morrissey apologist seems to think that his words were not appropriate and that he would not have said such things in the wake of the Manchester-killings. It is disgusting. It is like Trump voters from the Evangelical circuit. He can do and say whatever he wants, there are people defending him. After the SPIEGEL incident ("Berlin is the rape-capital, because of refugees") I was shocked by his following video. It showed someone who once fascinated me with songs about self-pity and made his songs mine. If you think that the world rejects you for no reason, I identify with you completely. If people criticize you for what you say, because what you say is wrong or shows a lack of empathy for anyone but yourself, there IS a reason for being rejected. In Germany we had to witness the existence of a large group of pedophiles, doing things to children you don`t even want to imagine. It had nothing to do with immigration. Evil is a part of human nature, no matter where you come from. If Morrissey ever took responsibility for what he has ever said or done, instead of complaining like a stubborn child, you could still take him seriously and feel with him when he sings "I know I`m unloveable", which now, at least to me , he is. I will never stop listening to THE SMITHS and his best solo-stuff (Alain Whyte was his best co-writer after THE SMITHS), but I`m truly disappointed and I spent my whole life in ruins because of someone who I thought was nice. Honestly, I never wanted him to be nice: I wanted him to be someone to look up to, morally. He has turned into the opposite, but the music can`t be destroyed. If only someone could make him see.....The one who shuts all people up who criticize him even if they COULD be right has no right to complain or to consider himself a supporter of the freedom of speech, exercising the opposite! Articles like that make me sick. Why do I come here? People who say that should know that Morrissey hates this site, so stay away yourselves. It is liking checking on an old friend, hoping for things to get better. But, no, he`ll never change and this is a bad thing!

He's an animal liberationist - he genuinely believes animal lives are equal to human lives. He was not dismissing people being murdered. He was saying animals are also murdered. At a gig. It was the crass articles that caused the hurt.

And he wasn't attacking refugees - he was saying the policy had caused problems. Which it did - the EU negotiated a deal with Turkey to stem the flow a year later.

EU-TURKEY STATEMENT & ACTION PLAN | Legislative Train Schedule

As part of security issues, on 18 March 2016, the EU and Turkey reached an agreement aimed at stopping the flow of irregular migration via Turkey to Europe.

www.europarl.europa.eu

 

[Deleted member 28251]

My post suggests no such thing.

As I've said before, I love the art Morrissey and The Smiths created. Even if he's now changed (or perhaps, more accurately, revealing his true colors), my love for the music remains. I'm in no way obliged to like the man himself, however. The same hold true for Richard Wagner's music and others. Great art... not so great human.

My point was that it appears you’d rather some aspects of life were not reflected in art; that art should present a sterilised vision of reality to the world.

Given your logic, which unproblematically conflates message and messenger, is it also people like Hitchcock who you’d wish away?

 

[Deleted member 29417]

It seems to me that your ideal art actually amounts to a kind of liberal propaganda.

I think Morrissey may have to accept that people get their opinions from skimming the press & he'll have to learn to talk in soundbites.

It's why politicians repeat the same thing so often in an interview & sound as if they're straining to remember the word order - they want to make sure their message gets aired & cannot be cut - in any way - to cause a scandal.

It's a shame - because it means nothing can ever be discussed. It's all slogans & scandals.

 

[Angelito]

My point was that it appears you’d rather some aspects of life were not reflected in art; that art should present a sterilised vision of reality to the world.

Given your logic, which unproblematically conflates message and messenger, is it also people like Hitchcock who you’d wish away?

You're seemingly literate and illiterate at the same time. Nothing I wrote suggested that "art should present a sterilized vision of reality to the world." You're making baseless and nonsensical interpretations.

Explain how my "love the art, don't love the artist" view "...unproblematically conflates message and messenger?" I'm saying the exact opposite. Good lord... get yourself enrolled in a critical thinking course, please.

 

[Deleted member 29417]

My point was that it appears you’d rather some aspects of life were not reflected in art; that art should present a sterilised vision of reality to the world.

Given your logic, which unproblematically conflates message and messenger, is it also people like Hitchcock who you’d wish away?

It's Henge - & how can he like the art if he's decided the songs he doesn't understand are racist because he read it?

 

[Angelito]

I think Morrissey may have to accept that people get their opinions from skimming the press & he'll have to learn to talk in soundbites.

It's why politicians repeat the same thing so often in an interview & sound as if they're straining to remember the word order - they want to make sure their message gets aired & cannot be cut - in any way - to cause a scandal.

It's a shame - because it means nothing can ever be discussed. It's all slogans & scandals.

I think Morrissey apologists may have to accept that their hero is a fallible, failing, and flailing human being. You and your ilk didn't just drink the Kool-Aid -- you're clearly swimming in an ocean of it.

And the only press I need skim to verify what Morrissey thinks, feels, and believes are his own interviews. Straight from the horse's mouth! I don't need others to tell me "what he actually means is.." when his own words are clear and unequivocal.

 

[Angelito]

It's Henge - & how can he like the art if he's decided the songs he doesn't understand are racist because he read it?

And what do you say to the Asians, be they Chinese or Bengali, who take offense to Morrissey's statements & lyrics, and who feel hurt by them? I suppose you invalidate their feelings and tell them they're all wrong? That they simply don't understand the profundity of Morrissey?

 

[Vegan Cro Spirit 555]

You're seemingly literate and illiterate at the same time. Nothing I wrote suggested that "art should present a sterilized vision of reality to the world." You're making baseless and nonsensical interpretations.

Explain how my "love the art, don't love the artist" view "...unproblematically conflates message and messenger?" I'm saying the exact opposite. Good lord... get yourself enrolled in a critical thinking course, please.

Skinny make the effort to get a job instead of making new log ins FFS