Morrissey Central "NEW GUITARIST" (April 13, 2023)

NEW GUITARIST - MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY - MORRISSEY CENTRAL - NEW GUITARIST

MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY on MORRISSEY CENTRAL

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Carmen Vandenberg (below) will play guitars with Jesse Tobias in the new
line-up for Morrissey's forthcoming July concerts in Israel, Ireland and Britain.

 

[Anonymous]

Moz has never given Alain the respect he deserves and I suspect he greatly undervalues the huge contribution Alain has made to his career. In his autobiography Moz mercilessly ridicules Alain for asking where The New York Dolls came from. It does sound like a dumb question on the surface but it's not. The Dolls were mostly from Long Island specifically. Having Tobias as musical director over Alan is like asking a Corporal to supervise a Major in the army. I see Mozzer's ham-fisted fingerprints all over Alain's departure.

 

[j*e*t]

Moz has never given Alain the respect he deserves and I suspect he greatly undervalues the huge contribution Alain has made to his career. In his autobiography Moz mercilessly ridicules Alain for asking where The New York Dolls came from. It does sound like a dumb question on the surface but it's not. The Dolls were mostly from Long Island specifically. Having Tobias as musical director over Alan is like asking a Corporal to supervise a Major in the army. I see Mozzer's ham-fisted fingerprints all over Alain's departure.

I thought that when I read Autobiography too, about The New York Dolls. Other bands use place-names in their band names without being from that place, for example the band Texas is from Glasgow in Scotland and The Dresden Dolls are from Boston, Massechusettes. Maybe Morrissey was just surprised Alain hadn't found out where The New York Dolls were from by himself, but then, why should he have?

 

[Genuinely wondering]

So someone wrote that someone else in the band has left or been fired by Jessie too. Well, who is it?

We should also make bets on how long this new broad lasts. She’s Grammy nominated so won’t be long until she puts a few noses out of joint.

 

[Captain Caveman]

So someone wrote that someone else in the band has left or been fired by Jessie too. Well, who is it?

I don't know any insider info, but the way this statement about the new guitarist is worded certainly makes me suspect that there are further band member changes to be announced. Instead of simply announcing the new line-up in it's entirety, the only other player mentioned as definitely present is Jesse. Very suspicious.

 

[Redacted]

It doesn't matter if the Dolls were from NY or not, they were named after The New York Doll Hospital, a doll repair shop. So no, not a dumb question and pretty hypocritical given what Morrissey named his band. Are there any Smiths in the Smiths? Would someone be stupid for asking? Any Ramones in the Ramones?

 

[Redacted]

I am not sure how you know what 'most would assume'. Is Buster Pointdexter really David Johansen's name? This level of tedium can go on all day, but it's not really MY thing, there was not a need to make an issue of it in the first place to make Morrissey look right, again, even tho he was being an ass, especially considering his own band's name. He's been a jerk to Alain and people are recalling instances. Now Alain is gone like so many others, hence this thread. The common denominator is.........
And not everyone knows where everything is in America. duh.

 

[marred]

Boz and Jesse together played Smiths songs well. I do think Jesse has a tendency to overplay at times.

The guitar tandem in the Morrissey Band has always been important. When it was first created, both guitarists played both lead and rhythm roles pretty evenly. When Jesse came on, he played mostly lead while Boz was mostly rhythm. At least Boz could play rhythm though, like Alain can. That's not Jesse's forte.

Stop the press!!! Will Vandenburg bring twin leads??? Are she and Tobias the Dave Mustaine/Marty Friedman of our times???? Does Morrissey think that a musical shift to progressive metal is long overdue?????

A butchery here and there of a Smiths song isn't the biggest sin in Morrissey world.

What I'm lamenting the most is the loss of more Morrissey/Whyte albums. I feel this possibly more than most because as an Australian seeing Morrissey live was never really a part of Morrissey culture for me. He just never came here at all in the early days and even after that his visits were very few and very far between. Going to the record store was my ticket to seeing Morrissey, versus queuing up to see him in concert like the rest of the world.

The last Morrissey/Whyte music we all heard was Years Of Refusal but Alain was out of the band at that point and also the studio. If we ever hear the album Without Music The World Dies it will be yet another Alain missing in action collection of songs from the grave so to speak.

This is not a good chapter.

 

[Judy Figginag]

Boz and Jesse together played Smiths songs well. I do think Jesse has a tendency to overplay at times.

The guitar tandem in the Morrissey Band has always been important. When it was first created, both guitarists played both lead and rhythm roles pretty evenly. When Jesse came on, he played mostly lead while Boz was mostly rhythm. At least Boz could play rhythm though, like Alain can. That's not Jesse's forte.

Stop the press!!! Will Vandenburg bring twin leads??? Are she and Tobias the Dave Mustaine/Marty Friedman of our times???? Does Morrissey think that a musical shift to progressive metal is long overdue?????

I think a more muscular reimagining of Frankly, Mr. Shankly, in the style of Megadeth, is as reasonable as having Rick Astley and Blossoms covering your work!

 

[Lionsy]

I do think Jesse has a tendency to overplay at times.

Well that is certainly a kind way of saying it

 

[Juan Dulces]

What I'm lamenting the most is the loss of more Morrissey/Whyte albums. I feel this possibly more than most because as an Australian seeing Morrissey live was never really a part of Morrissey culture for me. He just never came here at all in the early days and even after that his visits were very few and very far between. Going to the record store was my ticket to seeing Morrissey, versus queuing up to see him in concert like the rest of the world.

You and I feel very similar with this. I agree that the chance to have Alain's songs again, and a new LP being recorded so quickly after he rejoined the band --- it was just all trending in the best possible direction for a 'born-again Morrissey'. Unfortunately we're now back in the muck of uncertainty, and I am sorry that we are.

Jesse is a good player overall, it's not his fault we're in this situation. I do not have any problems with any opinions to the contrary, but I wanted to give Jesse some credit for keeping the Morrissey train moving for most of my adult years (because I assume they read some of this, and I wouldn't mind saying hello to people that I'm grateful for) If they don't read it, I still feel the same way.

He needs to fine-tune his effect boxes (also use them less altogether) and listen a little more. Besides that - he seems kind, loyal and professional. Playing in bands as an adult, unless it's a million-dollar-ticket, you only want to play with people you like/admire/respect. Obviously, Jesse and Morrissey are friends - and Morrissey respects his abilities. Isn't it close to twenty years with Jesse on-board now?

 

[Jamie]

You and I feel very similar with this. I agree that the chance to have Alain's songs again, and a new LP being recorded so quickly after he rejoined the band --- it was just all trending in the best possible direction for a 'born-again Morrissey'. Unfortunately we're now back in the muck of uncertainty, and I am sorry that we are.

Jesse is a good player overall, it's not his fault we're in this situation. I do not have any problems with any opinions to the contrary, but I wanted to give Jesse some credit for keeping the Morrissey train moving for most of my adult years (because I assume they read some of this, and I wouldn't mind saying hello to people that I'm grateful for) If they don't read it, I still feel the same way.

He needs to fine-tune his effect boxes (also use them less altogether) and listen a little more. Besides that - he seems kind, loyal and professional. Playing in bands as an adult, unless it's a million-dollar-ticket, you only want to play with people you like/admire/respect. Obviously, Jesse and Morrissey are friends - and Morrissey respects his abilities. Isn't it close to twenty years with Jesse on-board now?

I was an eyewitness to his first concert with Morrissey at the House if Blues in Chicago in July 2004. Like most at the time, I assumed he was simply keeping the seat warm for Alain's eventual return, as Barrie Cadogan had done before him. Jesse seemed like a very odd fit at the time, even more so than Mike Farrell. I never would have anticipated his presence all these years later. His songwriting offerings have generally improved but, like others pointed out, he tends to butcher solos on some of the older tunes - most perversely Alain's for some reason.

 

[Juan Dulces]

I was an eyewitness to his first concert with Morrissey at the House if Blues in Chicago in July 2004. Like most at the time, I assumed he was simply keeping the seat warm for Alain's eventual return, as Barrie Cadogan had done before him. Jesse seemed like a very odd fit at the time, even more so than Mike Farrell. I never would have anticipated his presence all these years later. His songwriting offerings have generally improved but, like others pointed out, he tends to butcher solos on some of the older tunes - most perversely Alain's for some reason.

I like how Little Barrie is mentioned even though he sat in for a shorter duration than Spike Smith! Lol. It shows how much people like Barrie

Little Barrie is no Vandenburg. Heck, I don't think Morrissey has ever even played with a Vandenburg-type guitarist (minus Beck in the studio only, and I'm not saying she's anything LIKE Beck, but she is unconventional in many ways).

 

[Jamie]

I like how Little Barrie is mentioned even though he sat in for a shorter duration than Spike Smith! Lol. It shows how much people like Barrie

Little Barrie is no Vandenburg. Heck, I don't think Morrissey has ever even played with a Vandenburg-type guitarist (minus Beck in the studio only, and I'm not saying she's anything LIKE Beck, but she is unconventional in many ways).

To be honest, I have no affinity for/position on Little Barrie - and know nothing else about him outside of his short stint with Morrissey. My point was to reinforce how transitory/temporary it was assumed Jesse's role would be at that time. The last thing I envisioned was that he would eventually supersede Boz as musical director and knock about for nearly twenty years.

I do recall a fair bit of whinging at the time that Morrissey hadn't chosen Bernard Butler as a replacement - as if that would have ever happened in a million years...

 

[Judy Figginag]

Well that is certainly a kind way of saying it

Even kinder - Jesse’s ‘enthusiastic’!

 

[Judy Figginag]

Heck, I don't think Morrissey has ever even played with a Vandenburg-type guitarist (minus Beck in the studio only, and I'm not saying she's anything LIKE Beck, but she is unconventional in many ways).

I think there’s a tenuous link between Carmen Vandenberg and Morrissey in Jeff Beck, who played on Black Cloud back in 2009.

Having already played alongside the legendary Jeff Beck, I’d quite welcome anything that sounded like Black Cloud from Carmen Vandenberg!

I’m also reminding myself that guitar virtu-so-so Johnny Depp also played with Jeff Beck recently, so it’s hardly John Mayall’s Bluesbreakers come to pass!

 

[Crisstti]

A butchery here and there of a Smiths song isn't the biggest sin in Morrissey world.

What I'm lamenting the most is the loss of more Morrissey/Whyte albums. I feel this possibly more than most because as an Australian seeing Morrissey live was never really a part of Morrissey culture for me. He just never came here at all in the early days and even after that his visits were very few and very far between. Going to the record store was my ticket to seeing Morrissey, versus queuing up to see him in concert like the rest of the world.

The last Morrissey/Whyte music we all heard was Years Of Refusal but Alain was out of the band at that point and also the studio. If we ever hear the album Without Music The World Dies it will be yet another Alain missing in action collection of songs from the grave so to speak.

This is not a good chapter.

Wonder if there's any chance that Alain would keep on writing for Moz, even if out of the live band.

 

[Thewlis]

Wonder if there's any chance that Alain would keep on writing for Moz, even if out of the live band.

He did so after he left in 2005, as there were still AW-songs on Refusal.
I think there is a reasonable chance now too. He is Morrissey’s most prolific co-writer. More than 80 songs they wrote together.

 

[Luxo]

I think a more muscular reimagining of Frankly, Mr. Shankly, in the style of Megadeth, is as reasonable as having Rick Astley and Blossoms covering your work!

Except that Blossoms played The Smiths songs better than any band of Morrissey's ever have in all of the years he has been solo!

 

[Nobody Knows Me]

To be honest, I have no affinity for/position on Little Barrie - and know nothing else about him outside of his short stint with Morrissey. My point was to reinforce how transitory/temporary it was assumed Jesse's role would be at that time. The last thing I envisioned was that he would eventually supersede Boz as musical director and knock about for nearly twenty years.

I do recall a fair bit of whinging at the time that Morrissey hadn't chosen Bernard Butler as a replacement - as if that would have ever happened in a million years...

My recollection on that (and I may not be correct) was that Butler was invited to collaborate but expressed an in interest in being more creative rather than just being a fill-in live guitarist trotting out the hits (and misses). I'd like to have seen him do both, but really that was another fascinating avenue not explored, much like another Durutti / Street collaboration could have been if Vini had more impact.

I'm generally a fan of the band set up, I just wish he'd been more experimental as well. (Though he finally has been of late).

 

[Judy Figginag]

Except that Blossoms played The Smiths songs better than any band of Morrissey's ever have in all of the years he has been solo!

Maybe Morrissey and Rick Astley should’ve toured together like a couple of proper old school crooners - backed by Blossoms looking like The Shadows.