Morrissey Central "ELIZABETH ANNE DWYER" (August 8, 2020)

ELIZABETH ANNE DWYER - MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY - MORRISSEY CENTRAL - ELIZABETH ANNE DWYER

MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY on MORRISSEY CENTRAL

www.morrisseycentral.com

Born Holles Street Hospital, Dublin, in
winter months.

ELIZABETH ANNE DWYER

"With this broken voice I beseech you, my friends, to offer prayers of hope and prayers of intercession for the recovery of Elizabeth Anne Dwyer, who is my mother, who is in trouble, and who is the sole reason for all the good and motivational things in my life. I ask particularly my friends in Chile, Mexico, Italy, Peru, Paraguay, Brazil, the United States, Ecuador, Israel and Ireland to offer their prayers for Elizabeth - for she is all I have, and our collective pleas of petition might wake the sleeping gods.
She is me, and without her vahaan koee kal hal … there is no tomorrow. I ask no more of you… for there could be no more to ask."

Steven Patrick Francis Morrissey.

8 August 2020.

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Nothing but positive thoughts.
FWD.

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Media items:

• Irish Mirror: "Morrissey's heartbreaking message to fans as Irish mother falls gravely ill" - August 10, 2020
• Irish Post: "Morrissey begs for prayers from Ireland as Dublin-born mother falls gravely ill" - August 11, 2020
• NME: "Morrissey asks fans to pray for his seriously ill mother: “Without her there is no tomorrow”" - August 11, 2020
• Far Out Magazine: "Morrissey asks fans to pray for his severely unwell mother" - August 12, 2020

 

[Deleted member 29417]

Still thinking of Elizabeth & everyone in need.

 

[Anonymous]

I worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. In the Old and New Testaments, God is called the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, because with them God's relationship of promise and purpose was fixed for all those who descended from them. This is the same line that our Lord Jesus comes from and we can be assured as Christians that Jesus is the Messiah. Lord Jesus is from the correct lineage/ancestry as was prophesied in the Old Testament.

I worship the Hebrew God of the Bible. The God of Israel. Lord God is the same in the Old Testament and also in the New Testament.

It is true that Christianity, Judaism and Islam are all 'Abrahamic' religions. But a difference in Islam is that they follow the line of Ishmael NOT of Isaac. For us Christians that would mean that they are going against or breaking God's Covenant with Abraham and Isaac. The Lord God's Covenant made it clear that Ishmael was NOT to inherit Abraham's house and that Isaac would be the Seed of the Covenant: "Take your son, your only son, whom you love and go to the region of Moriah." (Genesis 22:2–8). If you read the 'Book of Genesis' in the Old Testament this should make more sense to you and you can hopefully understand where I'm coming from.

God's Covenants are not exactly contracts the way we think of contracts today, though there is some similarity. A 'Covenant' in a Biblical context is essentially a relationship or a partnership, but it's a relationship that has been formalised and has been brought under sanctions, as it were. So there are 'blessings' that come if the relationship is kept, and there are 'penalties' that come if the relationship is broken, and a Covenant is simply the terms of that relationship. In total, there are four Old Testament God Covenants—one with Noah, one with Abraham, one with the Israelites, and one with King David. All of these Covenants serve the purpose of creating a new partnership into which God can eventually invite all of humankind.

Jesus is my Lord and Saviour and my friend. Jesus is my intercessor with God. In Christianity we have a personal relationship with Father God and His Son Lord Jesus. I believe in the Holy Trinity which is also known as the Triune Godhead- One God in 3 persons: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

A fundamental difference between Christianity and Islam is that Christians believe Jesus is the only begotten Son of God not just a prophet. Jesus is God made flesh. Jesus is divine. Us Christians believe that Jesus died on the Cross He shed His precious blood to save us from our sins. Us Christian believe that Jesus was buried and then rose again on the third day and He ascended into Heaven. It is through our faith and belief in Lord Jesus Christ and His redemptive work that we are saved.

I'm a born-again, Bible-believing Christian not a Roman Catholic. I don't follow what the Vatican or the Pope says. I know very little about Catholicism.

I'm sorry I thought that you meant you thought that Muhammad was Ishmael's son. I believe that you are correct Muhammad is from the same lineage/ancestry as Ishmael. I don't know a great deal about Islam. I know that Muslims believe in the Second Coming of Lord Jesus Christ. I also believe in the Second Coming of Lord Jesus Christ.

I like the Christian website "Got Questions". This is quite an interesting article:

https://www.gotquestions.org/same-God.html

This is an extract from the article:

So, do Christians and Muslims worship the same God? A better question is, “Do Christians and Muslims both have a correct understanding of who God is?” To this question, the answer is definitely no. Because of crucial differences between the Christian and Muslim concepts of God, the two faiths cannot both be true. The Biblical God alone addresses and solves the problem of sin by giving His Son Jesus. God sacrificed His only son Jesus for the sins of mankind.

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son” (John 3:16-18).

God bless you! I'm still praying for Morrissey's mother Elizabeth, Morrissey himself and the rest of his family. I know that Morrissey and his family are Roman Catholics. I have total respect and love for Morrissey and his family.

You have posted much of this before. Whether Ishmael was of Isaac's lineage or not has no bearing on what I have been saying.

I understand your view and I have pointed out in earlier posts that many christian off shoots and evangelicals dont agree with the Catholic Church on these matters but the thread and discussion was related to the Catholic Church since Morrissey and his mother were born catholics and many of the countries he has chosen in his list have very high populations of catholics and have catholicism in their very roots. For example the Philippines where all laws are based around catholicism and for example where divorce is illegal because they follow catholic laws.

I have been talking about the catholic teaching and the catholic teaching from vatican 2 council states that the god that Islam follows and the god that catholics follow is the same god because there is one and only one god. Catholics because it was from council have to acknowledge this teaching.

I get the Jesus point and I have already stated those differences several times but this isnt what I am talking about. I am talking about god the creator, the god of Abraham.

I also understand your points re the covenant etc as stated in the bible but this isn't relevant as to whether Mohammad worshipped the same god.

Many catholics also say similar things in relation to evangelicals and christian groups who are not catholic because according to them Jesus made a covenant with Peter as stated in the bible to build the church of Jesus and Peter became the first head of the Christian church, the catholic church and catholics state in every mass that they believe in the one catholic church when they recite The Creed which has the line:
"I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church."

But does that really mean they believe you worship a different god? No they dont, they just believe that the true christian church can only be the catholic church and I expect you won't like that either but it is comparable in lineage and break scenarios as the one you provide.

Many catholics especially the conservative groups within the church believe that by breaking away from the church of Peter in Rome those christians have removed themselves from the covenant with Jesus which is very similar in argument to the one you use regarding Ishmael and why you distance yourself from the Islamic lineage.

Mohammad worshipped the same god as his ancestors, ie Ishmael and Abraham which is the same god of Isaac. Mohammad didn't invent a new god and he maintained he was worshipping the god of Abraham.

You may dispute that Islam is valid because of the breaking away that is described in your bible but Islam doesn't describe things like that. They will quote you passages that describe the coming of a new prophet from the god of Abraham and the start of a new covenant with god through that prophet. Each religion has quotes from the Old Testament that they use to put their case forward.

All of the breakage and covenant points that you mention however still doesn't mean they were worshipping a different god. They still worship a god and as proven by your words is still the same god as the same ancestor, Abraham.

So putting your views on that Isaac/Ishmael lineage aside are you saying that the god of Mohammad is a different god and therefore saying Ishmael worshipped a dfferent god to Isaac? You have already given proof that they descend from Abraham and they believed in a monotheist god so doesn't this mean that they worship the same god?

Your post from the questions section I dont think stand up and I have seen many non catholic groups posting similar things to try to distance themselves from Islam but I am not convinced in any of the arguments I have seen and I think there are underlying reasons for these points which relate to not wanting to be linked in anyway to a Muslim faith.

Both religions believe in Jesus but one considers Jesus a prophet born of Mary, the most honoured woman in the Quran and they consider the thought of god giving birth to a son as blasphemy, and then christians believe Jesus is god the son as you say part of the trinity.

But how does that alone lead to the conclusion that they worship a different god? For either religion to state that they worship different gods is serious blasphemy because there can only be one god.

As I said the catholic teaching is very clear on this and catholics have to respect the teaching of council in that both Islam and Christianity have the same one god.

From the council:
“The Church has also a high regard for the Muslims. They worship God, who is one, living and subsistent, merciful and almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth (Cf. St. Gregory VII, Letter III, 21 to Anazir [Al-Nasir], King of Mauretania PL, 148.451A.), who has spoken to men. They strive to submit themselves without reserve to the hidden decrees of God, just as Abraham submitted himself to God’s plan, to whose faith Muslims eagerly link their own. Although not acknowledging him as God, they venerate Jesus as a prophet, his Virgin Mother they also honor, and even at times devoutly invoke. Further, they await the day of judgment and the reward of God following the resurrection of the dead. For this reason they highly esteem an upright life and worship God, especially by way of prayer, alms-deeds and fasting.

I think it gets quite depressing when I see people in religions clinging on to their ownership of god and dismissing other religions. Both religions taught respect and love and when I see this kind of division amongst people who follow a religion of love and hope and respect and both religions teaching people to live good lives and look after each other then expressing they own god and the other doesn't it just wipes away the whole basis of the underlying teachings of either religion. Do you think Jesus taught that?

 

[Deleted member 29227]

I've been hoping for some forthcoming good news, but still no updates on this situation...

 

[Stuff On]

No news, is no news.

She is either in the throws of some illness that is threatening to see her off, or is in receipt of end-of-life care.

Morrissey’s plea, suggests the former, however not necessarily so. Not everyone responds the same, even when they are the ones who agree with the clinical team when prolonged life is no longer the kindest option. It’s human nature to recoil against that which we fear the most.

If the latter, it can go on for weeks.

All we can do is to hope for the best. Whatever that may be.

It‘s a horrible time for any family.

 

[A Man Escaped]

Morrissey's statement begins with the lines:

"With this broken voice I beseech you"

Which, of course is a line from the song "The father who must be killed." Ironically, given the endless pages of theological banter on this thread, it also contains the lines:

"No one to warn me
No hand to touch me
And no Bible-belters to mess with me"

I sincerely hope his mother recovers from what ails her.

 

[Deleted member 29417]

You have posted much of this before. Whether Ishmael was of Isaac's lineage or not has no bearing on what I have been saying.

I understand your view and I have pointed out in earlier posts that many christian off shoots and evangelicals dont agree with the Catholic Church on these matters but the thread and discussion was related to the Catholic Church since Morrissey and his mother were born catholics and many of the countries he has chosen in his list have very high populations of catholics and have catholicism in their very roots. For example the Philippines where all laws are based around catholicism and for example where divorce is illegal because they follow catholic laws.

I have been talking about the catholic teaching and the catholic teaching from vatican 2 council states that the god that Islam follows and the god that catholics follow is the same god because there is one and only one god. Catholics because it was from council have to acknowledge this teaching.

I get the Jesus point and I have already stated those differences several times but this isnt what I am talking about. I am talking about god the creator, the god of Abraham.

I also understand your points re the covenant etc as stated in the bible but this isn't relevant as to whether Mohammad worshipped the same god.

Many catholics also say similar things in relation to evangelicals and christian groups who are not catholic because according to them Jesus made a covenant with Peter as stated in the bible to build the church of Jesus and Peter became the first head of the Christian church, the catholic church and catholics state in every mass that they believe in the one catholic church when they recite The Creed which has the line:
"I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church."

But does that really mean they believe you worship a different god? No they dont, they just believe that the true christian church can only be the catholic church and I expect you won't like that either but it is comparable in lineage and break scenarios as the one you provide.

Many catholics especially the conservative groups within the church believe that by breaking away from the church of Peter in Rome those christians have removed themselves from the covenant with Jesus which is very similar in argument to the one you use regarding Ishmael and why you distance yourself from the Islamic lineage.

Mohammad worshipped the same god as his ancestors, ie Ishmael and Abraham which is the same god of Isaac. Mohammad didn't invent a new god and he maintained he was worshipping the god of Abraham.

You may dispute that Islam is valid because of the breaking away that is described in your bible but Islam doesn't describe things like that. They will quote you passages that describe the coming of a new prophet from the god of Abraham and the start of a new covenant with god through that prophet. Each religion has quotes from the Old Testament that they use to put their case forward.

All of the breakage and covenant points that you mention however still doesn't mean they were worshipping a different god. They still worship a god and as proven by your words is still the same god as the same ancestor, Abraham.

So putting your views on that Isaac/Ishmael lineage aside are you saying that the god of Mohammad is a different god and therefore saying Ishmael worshipped a dfferent god to Isaac? You have already given proof that they descend from Abraham and they believed in a monotheist god so doesn't this mean that they worship the same god?

Your post from the questions section I dont think stand up and I have seen many non catholic groups posting similar things to try to distance themselves from Islam but I am not convinced in any of the arguments I have seen and I think there are underlying reasons for these points which relate to not wanting to be linked in anyway to a Muslim faith.

Both religions believe in Jesus but one considers Jesus a prophet born of Mary, the most honoured woman in the Quran and they consider the thought of god giving birth to a son as blasphemy, and then christians believe Jesus is god the son as you say part of the trinity.

But how does that alone lead to the conclusion that they worship a different god? For either religion to state that they worship different gods is serious blasphemy because there can only be one god.

As I said the catholic teaching is very clear on this and catholics have to respect the teaching of council in that both Islam and Christianity have the same one god.

From the council:
“The Church has also a high regard for the Muslims. They worship God, who is one, living and subsistent, merciful and almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth (Cf. St. Gregory VII, Letter III, 21 to Anazir [Al-Nasir], King of Mauretania PL, 148.451A.), who has spoken to men. They strive to submit themselves without reserve to the hidden decrees of God, just as Abraham submitted himself to God’s plan, to whose faith Muslims eagerly link their own. Although not acknowledging him as God, they venerate Jesus as a prophet, his Virgin Mother they also honor, and even at times devoutly invoke. Further, they await the day of judgment and the reward of God following the resurrection of the dead. For this reason they highly esteem an upright life and worship God, especially by way of prayer, alms-deeds and fasting.

I think it gets quite depressing when I see people in religions clinging on to their ownership of god and dismissing other religions. Both religions taught respect and love and when I see this kind of division amongst people who follow a religion of love and hope and respect and both religions teaching people to live good lives and look after each other then expressing they own god and the other doesn't it just wipes away the whole basis of the underlying teachings of either religion. Do you think Jesus taught that?

I agree that it's the one God - but other people are entitled to their opinions. The important point is that we shouldn't persecute.

 

[Deleted member 29417]

Morrissey's statement begins with the lines:

"With this broken voice I beseech you"

Which, of course is a line from the song "The father who must be killed." Ironically, given the endless pages of theological banter on this thread, it also contains the lines:

"No one to warn me
No hand to touch me
And no Bible-belters to mess with me"

I sincerely hope his mother recovers from what ails her.

I hadn't picked that up - it makes it slightly more worrying. That verse is about suicide. But it's probably just a turn of phrase.

 

[Lost and found]

I hadn't picked that up - it makes it slightly more worrying. That verse is about suicide. But it's probably just a turn of phrase.

View attachment 58360

Oh no. Have you read List Of The Lost? I have, and I'm worried, maybe too much...

 

[Anonymous]

Morrissey's statement begins with the lines:

"With this broken voice I beseech you"

Which, of course is a line from the song "The father who must be killed." Ironically, given the endless pages of theological banter on this thread, it also contains the lines:

"No one to warn me
No hand to touch me
And no Bible-belters to mess with me"

I sincerely hope his mother recovers from what ails her.

Indeed there are a lot of bible posts and prayers on here to mess with but Morrissey did ask for such biblical prayers.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree that it's the one God - but other people are entitled to their opinions. The important point is that we shouldn't persecute.

Absolutely which was my point at the end regarding love and respect.

 

[BookishBoy]

Oh no. Have you read List Of The Lost? I have, and I'm worried, maybe too much...

I was about to say, flippantly, that nobody read it, but then I looked it up and it's sold over 13,000 copies in the UK. Much more than I thought!

 

[Deleted member 29417]

Oh no. Have you read List Of The Lost? I have, and I'm worried, maybe too much...

it is art - but yes, his work is full of references to being tied to apron strings, running home to Ma & struggling without a Mother.

 

[Deleted member 29417]

I was about to say, flippantly, that nobody read it, but then I looked it up and it's sold over 13,000 copies in the UK. Much more than I thought!

I loved it! It's like the unhappy male version of Valerie and her Week of Wonders.

 

[Vegan Cro Spirit .777]

You have posted much of this before. Whether Ishmael was of Isaac's lineage or not has no bearing on what I have been saying.

I understand your view and I have pointed out in earlier posts that many christian off shoots and evangelicals dont agree with the Catholic Church on these matters but the thread and discussion was related to the Catholic Church since Morrissey and his mother were born catholics and many of the countries he has chosen in his list have very high populations of catholics and have catholicism in their very roots. For example the Philippines where all laws are based around catholicism and for example where divorce is illegal because they follow catholic laws.

I have been talking about the catholic teaching and the catholic teaching from vatican 2 council states that the god that Islam follows and the god that catholics follow is the same god because there is one and only one god. Catholics because it was from council have to acknowledge this teaching.

I get the Jesus point and I have already stated those differences several times but this isnt what I am talking about. I am talking about god the creator, the god of Abraham.

I also understand your points re the covenant etc as stated in the bible but this isn't relevant as to whether Mohammad worshipped the same god.

Many catholics also say similar things in relation to evangelicals and christian groups who are not catholic because according to them Jesus made a covenant with Peter as stated in the bible to build the church of Jesus and Peter became the first head of the Christian church, the catholic church and catholics state in every mass that they believe in the one catholic church when they recite The Creed which has the line:
"I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church."

But does that really mean they believe you worship a different god? No they dont, they just believe that the true christian church can only be the catholic church and I expect you won't like that either but it is comparable in lineage and break scenarios as the one you provide.

Many catholics especially the conservative groups within the church believe that by breaking away from the church of Peter in Rome those christians have removed themselves from the covenant with Jesus which is very similar in argument to the one you use regarding Ishmael and why you distance yourself from the Islamic lineage.

Mohammad worshipped the same god as his ancestors, ie Ishmael and Abraham which is the same god of Isaac. Mohammad didn't invent a new god and he maintained he was worshipping the god of Abraham.

You may dispute that Islam is valid because of the breaking away that is described in your bible but Islam doesn't describe things like that. They will quote you passages that describe the coming of a new prophet from the god of Abraham and the start of a new covenant with god through that prophet. Each religion has quotes from the Old Testament that they use to put their case forward.

All of the breakage and covenant points that you mention however still doesn't mean they were worshipping a different god. They still worship a god and as proven by your words is still the same god as the same ancestor, Abraham.

So putting your views on that Isaac/Ishmael lineage aside are you saying that the god of Mohammad is a different god and therefore saying Ishmael worshipped a dfferent god to Isaac? You have already given proof that they descend from Abraham and they believed in a monotheist god so doesn't this mean that they worship the same god?

Your post from the questions section I dont think stand up and I have seen many non catholic groups posting similar things to try to distance themselves from Islam but I am not convinced in any of the arguments I have seen and I think there are underlying reasons for these points which relate to not wanting to be linked in anyway to a Muslim faith.

Both religions believe in Jesus but one considers Jesus a prophet born of Mary, the most honoured woman in the Quran and they consider the thought of god giving birth to a son as blasphemy, and then christians believe Jesus is god the son as you say part of the trinity.

But how does that alone lead to the conclusion that they worship a different god? For either religion to state that they worship different gods is serious blasphemy because there can only be one god.

As I said the catholic teaching is very clear on this and catholics have to respect the teaching of council in that both Islam and Christianity have the same one god.

From the council:
“The Church has also a high regard for the Muslims. They worship God, who is one, living and subsistent, merciful and almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth (Cf. St. Gregory VII, Letter III, 21 to Anazir [Al-Nasir], King of Mauretania PL, 148.451A.), who has spoken to men. They strive to submit themselves without reserve to the hidden decrees of God, just as Abraham submitted himself to God’s plan, to whose faith Muslims eagerly link their own. Although not acknowledging him as God, they venerate Jesus as a prophet, his Virgin Mother they also honor, and even at times devoutly invoke. Further, they await the day of judgment and the reward of God following the resurrection of the dead. For this reason they highly esteem an upright life and worship God, especially by way of prayer, alms-deeds and fasting.

I think it gets quite depressing when I see people in religions clinging on to their ownership of god and dismissing other religions. Both religions taught respect and love and when I see this kind of division amongst people who follow a religion of love and hope and respect and both religions teaching people to live good lives and look after each other then expressing they own god and the other doesn't it just wipes away the whole basis of the underlying teachings of either religion. Do you think Jesus taught that?

More Islamic atheist progaganda FFS simple logic will tell you that some priests having high regard for Islam is not Catholic dogma. Right in there they say that they say Jesus is not God. Since you have to have faith in Jesus to go to Heaven, the day of judgment will be not so good for the Islamics.
Besides Priests according to your atheistic Muslim proposal are ordinary dudes with no special knowledge. No different than a heretic like you having high regard for you Muslim religion.
No quit posting atheistic/Muslim heresy on this thread. The readership is against it.

 

[BookishBoy]

I loved it! It's like the unhappy male version of Valerie and her Week of Wonders. View attachment 58361

I don't know that book - will check it out!

 

[Deleted member 29417]

I don't know that book - will check it out!

I think people half expected him to do social realism & were shocked that it was more in the surreal, alienated, repressed, gothic tradition of Ronald Firbank or Ivy Compton Burnett.

This quote reminds me of 'your mind is not your own' in Spent & 'not having to question or fight' from Dave.

 

[Deleted member 29417]

I don't know that book - will check it out!

Have you seen the film? It's a classic in its own right. Fabulous soundtrack.

 

[Deleted member 28251]

Have you seen the film? It's classic in its own right. Fabulous soundtrack.

I saw this film after it’s DVD release; very interesting it was too.

 

[Deleted member 29417]

I saw this film after it’s DVD release; very interesting it was too.

I think C4 (or some other channel) might have had a Czech season when I was small, because it's lodged in my mind with Alice & Daisies.

 

[Deleted member 28251]

I think C4 (or some other channel) might have had a Czech season when I was small, because it's lodged in my mind with Alice & Daisies.

You would love a film called Little Otik, it really is fantastic.