What about Alain whyte?

[jean.lima]

What do you think of Alain Whyte's participation in Morrissey's solo career? For me, Mr. Whyte was responsible for a large part of Moz's musical identity. I was very sorry when he left the band. I really like the post-Whyte albums, though, but I felt like they lost some of their essence.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

I’ve been lucky to see Moz live with Alain in the band in 1999 at Liverpool, 2004 at Manchester and 2022 at Blackpool; all brilliant gigs. After seeing him at Leeds in 2011, Manchester the following year and again in 2016, I lost interest, the concerts had become dull and almost lifeless. Obviously Moz is getting on, but after that Blackpool show, it was crystal clear that Alain’s absence was the main factor in the decline in the live shows. It made such a huge difference having him back. Such a shame he left again.

not been my experience. I’ve seen M plenty of times with Alain, and enough without Alain, to say the shows have always been great.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

The biggest loss to Morrissey's band, music writing and live shows is losing Alain Whyte... and he let it happen twice.

Though I didn’t get to see Alain’s return with M in person, just from watching the videos, it really was not the same with Boz not being there. It’s really the combination of the two and how they complemented one another that was really great about M’s earlier band.

 

[Mayfly]

I do find it strange how Morrissey alluded to Alain reaching his zenith during the Ringleader era with such songs as Pigsty and Dear God, only to essentially sack him in that same period. I think we all know the person who is responsible for M's downfall, and it certainly wasn't Alain (or Boz).

Agree with you 100%. And it happened twice ! Didn’t M say that the tunes that Alain shared with him during the recent reunion were really good ? Well, we’re still waiting to hear them and to hear the WMTWD album, seemingly littl effort has gone into trying to get it released (of course, I may be wrong on this one). And in the meantime Alain has left again. Can you blame him?

 

[goinghome]

we all work with arseholes in our working lives and get on with it,alain should have bit the bullet,there was no need for him to walk away.

From what I've read, one side put out their interpretation of the situation and their reactions, which continues to circulate as gospel for some, without fair inquiry into all factors involved.

 

[Lionsy]

Though I didn’t get to see Alain’s return with M in person, just from watching the videos, it really was not the same with Boz not being there. It’s really the combination of the two and how they complemented one another that was really great about M’s earlier band.

Agreed - this period is my favourite solo Moz



Gary Day (Who I would happily allow to walk on my face, especially 1991 Gary), Boz, Alain and Spencer

 

[theprivilegeismine]

Same, Alain was the only reason I went to see Morrissey at Manchester Apollo in Oct 22 and it was the best Morrissey gig I had attended for a long time.

Off topic: Is security tight at the Apollo? I haven't been in about 15 years.

 

[Violeta]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I've always wondered what happened with Gary and Spencer, why were they sacked?

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Gary Day (Who I would happily allow to walk on my face, especially 1991 Gary), Boz, Alain and Spencer

 

[Redacted]

From what I've read, one side put out their interpretation of the situation and their reactions, which continues to circulate as gospel for some, without fair inquiry into all factors involved.

There is no doubt Alain was being kind and the situation was much worse than what he had to say about it. Morrissey is a cancer, he can't get along with anyone, he drives everyone away. If Morrissey want to tell his side, he can, but he knows it won't be flattering to him and he already got his ass handed to him with receipts regarding the entire BOT incident and Der Spiegel.

 

[Surface]

Off topic: Is security tight at the Apollo? I haven't been in about 15 years.

Not noticed it being different to anywhere else

 

[Jamie]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I've always wondered what happened with Gary and Spencer, why were they sacked?

Which time?

From the morass of stated fact from such sources as Mozipedia by Simon Goddard and the tittle-tattle of second-hand, third-party allegations that have passed through the wires over the decades:

Pre-Vauxhall sessions, Morrissey decided that they weren't up to the task for the less "hard-and-fast" fare on the new sessions. He had Boz enlist the Bridgwood & Taylor rhythm section in their stead. Apparently, this was followed by Gary taking issue and carving "Die Wanker!" in Morrissey's front door. They were brought back in the fold to record "Moonriver" and "A Swallow On My Neck" as B-sides in early 1994 and they also appeared with Alain (oddly, sans Boz) on the Top of The Pops appearance for "The More You Ignore Me, The Closer I Get." Morrissey elected not to tour V&I in 1994 and, by fall, Bridwood & Taylor were back for the "Boxers"/"Sunny" session and, subsequently, the aborted Miraval sessions for Southpaw Grammar. In a funny reversal, Morrissey then decided TAYLOR wasn't up to the task for the more "hard-and-fast" fare and rehired Spencer for the "Introducing Morrissey" tour and SG.

Bridgwood is on the record as having gotten bored with each successive album after V&I and a royalty dispute over the Introducing Morrissey video release was the final straw. Spencer also apparently had royalty disputes which prompted a reputedly infamous, anti-Semitic fax from Morrissey. That was the end of the line for them.

By 1999, with tempers apparently cooled (and, frankly, with Morrissey short a bass guitarist), Boz arranged to bring Gary back into the band and he was a fixture again until fall 2006. Having started a family, Gary apparently asked for a raise and was summarily dismissed. Something along the same lines later resulted in Mikey Farrell's departure prior to the Years of Refusal sessions. Bridge-burning was in the air, as this was allegedly followed by the Boss directing Boz to dismiss Alain from the YoR sessions in the recording studio parking lot. That required 12 years, give or take, for fence to be mended and then less than two for the muckabout manager to blow up again, apparently for good.

 

[MozIsGod]

Pre-Vauxhall sessions, Morrissey decided that they weren't up to the task for the less "hard-and-fast" fare on the new sessions. He had Boz enlist the Bridgwood & Taylor rhythm section in their stead.

I know this has been the word on the street for many years but I've never really subscribed to this theory. For one, it's not like Gary and Spencer struggled with the slower numbers played on the Kill Uncle and Your Arsenal tours. And the final Mick Ronson session in late 1992 which resulted in two b-sides (the brooding Jack The Ripper and dreamy You've Had Her) aren't much different stylistically to what would come on Vauxhall. Inviting them back to play on Moonriver...well, that song isn't exactly a stomper either. I just don't see it as a concern that they weren't well-suited for softer material.

My own take is that their "unruly behavior" late into the Your Arsenal tour in America is probably what led to Moz reshuffling the rhythm section. This might have been a small but contributing factor (besides songwriting and royalties) that led to the alleged "tension" between Boz and Alain mentioned in Mozipedia. I recall Alain stating on social media that he was disappointed when he learned that Gaz and Spence weren't going to be involved -- replaced by Jonny Bridgewood and Woodie Taylor (both old pal's of Boz).

 

[Phranc & Open]

I know this has been the word on the street for many years but I've never really subscribed to this theory. For one, it's not like Gary and Spencer struggled with the slower numbers played on the Kill Uncle and Your Arsenal tours. And the final Mick Ronson session in late 1992 which resulted in two b-sides (the brooding Jack The Ripper and dreamy You've Had Her) aren't much different stylistically to what would come on Vauxhall. Inviting them back to play on Moonriver...well, that song isn't exactly a stomper either. I just don't see it as a concern that they weren't well-suited for softer material.

My own take is that their "unruly behavior" late into the Your Arsenal tour in America is probably what led to Moz reshuffling the rhythm section. This might have been a small but contributing factor (besides songwriting and royalties) that led to the alleged "tension" between Boz and Alain mentioned in Mozipedia. I recall Alain stating on social media that he was disappointed when he learned that Gaz and Spence weren't going to be involved -- replaced by Jonny Bridgewood and Woodie Taylor (both old pal's of Boz).

Very good comments. "I'd love to" always sounded like an anticipation of Vauxhall and the B-side sessions in early 94 were no different in sound and style from Vauxhall. Still, different bassists, drummers and producers. Why would Morrissey sack Day and Cobrin after the tour marathon of 1991/92? He wanted a gang, he loved tough guys and the world was his oyster. 4 strong characters and a new (indie) Elvis. I don't think Boorer was ever as close to Day and Cobrin as Whyte. Which you can still see today. And maybe the impulse for more experienced studio musicians came from him?

 

[gashonthenail]

Totally agree. Even watching concerts after Alain's return in 2021, we can see his incredible enthusiasm on stage. Alain is definitely my favorite member of the Moz gang.The best composer, excellent guitarist, suberb backing vocals and just a nice guy. I hope he returns to the band one day, because I never had the opportunity to see him live. (during the years of "my concerts" , Alain was unfortunately out of the band. Alain, come back, we miss you!

I saw Morrissey at Brixton Academy in October 2022. Alain being there definitely added considerably to the buzz of the crowd. Probably the best Morrissey concert I have ever attended. He's quality. And just what Morrissey needs.

 

[Surface]

I saw Morrissey at Brixton Academy in October 2022. Alain being there definitely added considerably to the buzz of the crowd. Probably the best Morrissey concert I have ever attended. He's quality. And just what Morrissey needs.

He’s the reason I went to the Manchester gig and although it wasn’t the best ever it was the most enjoyable Morrissey gig I have been to for quite a while.

 

[Ryan]

I think another telling thing about Jesse, or at least something else that makes him seem offputting, is the fact that he rarely gives interviews and has been with the act since 2005. He’s just… there.

 

[Mimi Ramone]

I saw Morrissey at Brixton Academy in October 2022. Alain being there definitely added considerably to the buzz of the crowd. Probably the best Morrissey concert I have ever attended. He's quality. And just what Morrissey needs.

Also saw them on the 2022 tour in Killarney, I didn't know then, that I was lucky to catch that line up!

 

[Light Housework]

Also saw them on the 2022 tour in Killarney, I didn't know then, that I was lucky to catch that line up!
View attachment 103630

Great photo!

 

[skull]

Alain Whyte is a very good musician, composer, fellow, collaborator, ecc... okay. I hope he comes back in the future. But a lot depends also on Morrissey's lyrics. The man can make gold of Whyte's music or waste it. Both things happened with Whyte and with anyone else gave music to him.

 

[gashonthenail]

Also saw them on the 2022 tour in Killarney, I didn't know then, that I was lucky to catch that line up!
View attachment 103630

You were almost close enough there, Mimi, to say the Rosary!