Music-News / Fiona Dodwell: "Morrissey UK tour a hit with fans despite continued label silence" (July 19, 2023)

Excerpt:

Brit music legend Morrissey has been touring live dates across the UK with his new band line-up. With long-time lead guitarist Jesse Tobias now playing alongside Carmen Vandenberg, Juan Galeano and Brendan Buckley, Morrissey has been performing a string of sold-out shows in Leeds, Portsmouth, Dublin and Liverpool. With the next show being at London's Troxy this coming Saturday – also now sold out – the former Smiths frontman has been delighting crowds by performing a string of both old hits and new, as yet unreleased, tracks.

Morrissey UK tour a hit with fans despite continued label silence

Brit music legend Morrissey has been touring live dates across the UK with his new band line-up. With long-time lead guitarist Jesse Tobias

www.music-news.com

New Dodwell piece, if anyone is interested.
Same as the others

 

[DaveJCarr]

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. Surely clearing things with Miley's label wouldn't have been Moz's job. And in any case, it's just a matter of removing her vocals, that cannot be what's holding the album back.

If he didn't agree to a 360 deal in the first place, then he doesn't have to agree to it now either. The only half-believable possibility there would be that Moz would be refusing to give back the advance. It would be absurd, if it's that easy to get the album back that he wouldn't do it. Capitol could easily say this is he case too and they haven't.
But I could see how Morrissey could think it's their obligation to release the album and that they don't get to just walk back on the deal. Who knows what the deal said in the first place.

What I mean is There might be some scenario in which Moz put the cart before the horse: Capitol themselves never announced they signed Moz never declared theyvwere releasing the album, never announced that Miley was a featured vocalist on the album, and Morissey /centralmaking those announcements including a release window - before perhaps Capitol had every logistic ironed out is easily the kind of thing I could see happening Moz gets annoyed, then Capitol decides it's not worth the headache of dealing with the release, Moz refuses to pay back the advance (thinking they obligated, and so everyone sits pat.

 

[Redacted]

What I mean is There might be some scenario in which Moz put the cart before the horse: Capitol themselves never announced they signed Moz never declared theyvwere releasing the album, never announced that Miley was a featured vocalist on the album, and Morissey /centralmaking those announcements including a release window - before perhaps Capitol had every logistic ironed out is easily the kind of thing I could see happening Moz gets annoyed, then Capitol decides it's not worth the headache of dealing with the release, Moz refuses to pay back the advance (thinking they obligated, and so everyone sits pat.

I think it's telling that Capitol never announced, but there was that agent on twitter who said it's just a matter of removing Miley's vocals and that she was supposed to be uncredited. I do believe that is the story. I tihnk in order to give back the album to Moz or sell it to anyone, the vocals have to be removed and Moz probably does have some sort of money he won't give back because his argument is he won't be getting the album back as a whole, as he sold it, with Miley on it.

 

[SuedeMoz]

What I mean is There might be some scenario in which Moz put the cart before the horse: Capitol themselves never announced they signed Moz never declared theyvwere releasing the album, never announced that Miley was a featured vocalist on the album, and Morissey /centralmaking those announcements including a release window - before perhaps Capitol had every logistic ironed out is easily the kind of thing I could see happening Moz gets annoyed, then Capitol decides it's not worth the headache of dealing with the release, Moz refuses to pay back the advance (thinking they obligated, and so everyone sits pat.

Seems a likely scenario. If that's what happened (Morrissey refusing to return the advance) Capitol then views the purchase of BOT (in hindsight now viewed as a bad decision) as the cost of not having to work with Morrissey any longer. Maybe that's what Morrissey meant by Capitol holding BOT "hostage." Capitol wisely stays silent on the subject while Morrissey continues to reinforce why Capitol (and most record companies) would not want to work with him.

 

[Crisstti]

Since we're speculating. Maybe Capitol paid him more than they would have otherwise because Miley was on the album, so then when she backed out they refused to release it without her on it, or wanted Morrissey to agree to a lesser deal or otherwise to call the deal off and for Moz to give the advance back, which he refused to do saying they were obliged to release it anyway. But are they obliged to?
Maybe there's some deadline to release it we don't know about.

BTW Weren't some people here even speculating that Moz was making the deal with Capitol up, cause Capitol had not announced it?

 

[SuedeMoz]

Since we're speculating. Maybe Capitol paid him more than they would have otherwise because Miley was on the album, so then when she backed out they refused to release it without her on it, or wanted Morrissey to agree to a lesser deal or otherwise to call the deal off and for Moz to give the advance back, which he refused to do saying they were obliged to release it anyway. But are they obliged to?
Maybe there's some deadline to release it we don't know about.

BTW Weren't some people here even speculating that Moz was making the deal with Capitol up, cause Capitol had not announced it?

Yeah, there's a ton we don't know about the (alleged) Capitol deal.

 

[Crisstti]

Yeah, there's a ton we don't know about the (alleged) Capitol deal.

Yeah.
What I said about there maybe being a deadline we don't know about it probably wishful thinking on my part, though. Moz saying Capitol might release it when he dies (he did say this, right?) would indicate there's no deadline at all.

 

[ACTON]

You are talking as if record executives give a damn about the quality of the music they release. If they did they wouldn't release so much crap.

Not to mention, many of us do think his recent albums are still great.

I think it's gotta be either the labels want this type of 360 deal where they get a cut from everything he does, including ticket sales, as Bored said, and Moz isn't willing to do that, or it's politics (Bonfire and Notre Dame). Or both.

Well, Bonfire is sitting at Capitol offices gathering dust...

The sad probable outcome if Capitol release Bonfire...it sells only to die-hard fans like us (because so many people these days download for free and never buy albums), Moz isn't happy with the promotion/sales, and at the next concert Moz and gang wear 'F Capitol' t-shirts on stage. Same for whoever releases Without Music. If Moz reached #2 in album charts he'd complain about not hitting #1.

On the other hand look at Gary Numan. When his excellent album 'Savage' reached #2 in UK charts he cried with happiness and relief. Worth noting that Savage started as a 'Pledge' album.

In my opinion Moz should self-release Without Music on his own indie label like other very reputable artists do. Same for Bonfire if he has the legal right to do that. They'd sell out at every concert and then he could sell them online. The appetite for Moz albums is out there and now is the time for Moz to bypass the blockers and adapt. Moz shouldn't see it as a step backwards, it's just a step in a different direction and gives him forward momentum. He should see it as exciting and liberating.

 

[Bella2703]

Excerpt:

Brit music legend Morrissey has been touring live dates across the UK with his new band line-up. With long-time lead guitarist Jesse Tobias now playing alongside Carmen Vandenberg, Juan Galeano and Brendan Buckley, Morrissey has been performing a string of sold-out shows in Leeds, Portsmouth, Dublin and Liverpool. With the next show being at London's Troxy this coming Saturday – also now sold out – the former Smiths frontman has been delighting crowds by performing a string of both old hits and new, as yet unreleased, tracks.

Morrissey UK tour a hit with fans despite continued label silence

Brit music legend Morrissey has been touring live dates across the UK with his new band line-up. With long-time lead guitarist Jesse Tobias

www.music-news.com

New Dodwell piece, if anyone is interested.
Same as the others

Being a bit pedantic, but Portsmouth was defo not a sell out & I don't think Leeds was either.....oh & Dublin is not in the UK.

 

[Mike Rourke]

Seems a likely scenario. If that's what happened (Morrissey refusing to return the advance) Capitol then views the purchase of BOT (in hindsight now viewed as a bad decision) as the cost of not having to work with Morrissey any longer. Maybe that's what Morrissey meant by Capitol holding BOT "hostage." Capitol wisely stays silent on the subject while Morrissey continues to reinforce why Capitol (and most record companies) would not want to work with him.

I think too much is made of the whole 'difficult to work with' thing.
All a record company needs is for radio stations to play one or two singles off his new album, then sales of 30,000+ are pretty much guaranteed.
Morrissey doing interviews etc makes hardly any difference at all. When did anyone here last buy an album because they heard, saw or read an interview?
Unfortunately, Morrissey's clumsy political actions and statements from 2017 to 2019 rendered him super toxic to the extent that radio stations that had supported him for decades stopped doing so, despite the surprisingly good quality of the Dog on a Chain songs.
When 'Rebels Without Applause' was (kind of) released as a single, perhaps the record company were testing the water to see if radio stations would start playing his stuff again. When they clearly didn't, Capitol might have calculated that they simply couldn't afford to release it, if it was only going to sell in tiny numbers again, like Dog on a Chain.

 

[SuedeMoz]

I think too much is made of the whole 'difficult to work with' thing.
All a record company needs is for radio stations to play one or two singles off his new album, then sales of 30,000+ are pretty much guaranteed.
Morrissey doing interviews etc makes hardly any difference at all. When did anyone here last buy an album because they heard, saw or read an interview?
Unfortunately, Morrissey's clumsy political actions and statements from 2017 to 2019 rendered him super toxic to the extent that radio stations that had supported him for decades stopped doing so, despite the surprisingly good quality of the Dog on a Chain songs.
When 'Rebels Without Applause' was (kind of) released as a single, perhaps the record company were testing the water to see if radio stations would start playing his stuff again. When they clearly didn't, Capitol might have calculated that they simply couldn't afford to release it, if it was only going to sell in tiny numbers again, like Dog on a Chain.

It's really a bit of a mystery as Morrissey only makes self-serving comments and Capitol has said, well, nothing. You make some good points and sales figures and such. Supposedly this deal came about after the disappointing sales of IANADOAC and the damage done from 2017-2019 it would seem that Capitol knew what they were getting.

Did Morrissey indicate he would do more to promote BOT and then after the Greek theatre walk out they quickly lost faith? Maybe offer Morrissey a chance to return the advance and get BOT back? When he refused they decided to take the loss and move on?

I'm guessing it wasn't one thing but a combination of things that made Capitol decide not to release BOT. Then of course the question remains... was there ever really a deal with Capitol?

 

[DaveJCarr]

It's really a bit of a mystery as Morrissey only makes self-serving comments and Capitol has said, well, nothing. You make some good points and sales figures and such. Supposedly this deal came about after the disappointing sales of IANADOAC and the damage done from 2017-2019 it would seem that Capitol knew what they were getting.

Did Morrissey indicate he would do more to promote BOT and then after the Greek theatre walk out they quickly lost faith? Maybe offer Morrissey a chance to return the advance and get BOT back? When he refused they decided to take the loss and move on?

I'm guessing it wasn't one thing but a combination of things that made Capitol decide not to release BOT. Then of course the question remains... was there ever really a deal with Capitol?

This is exactly it – there may have been an agreement in principle, or any number of other things, but we will never really know until someone – perhaps Morissey himself – releases emails, communiqués or gives definitive details about what happened, at least from his perspective. We are not owed that information, of course, and maybe he thinks airing that would be counterproductive. It is entirely possible that Capitol acted dishonestly, or had buyers remorse, and now the extrication process is difficult if not impossible – because of Miley, because of money, who knows?

I think it's relevant to remind people of a pattern, particularly when it comes to releases and labels and Morrissey in the recent past.

World Peace had a bunch of singles, remixes and besides that were briefly listed on Amazon and some other places, were "announced" by Morissey without ever having Harvest themselves confirming things – remember they did make the album release and Morrissey signed a fairly big announcement, and they did do an entire promotional rollout, the spoken word music videos, the handwritten lyrics sheets deluxe album, the hot topic orange vinyl exclusive. And then, for reasons that aren't still clear (with Morrissey alleging sabotage), the deal ended the album disappeared, and it's nowhere to be found except on the secondary market. Again there is at least a good possibility that Morrissey himself got out in front of the announcements before things were ready before sales targets were hit, and then began loudly protesting when things didn't line up with what his own projections and understandings were.

It was, to me at least, a little bit of an unexpected miracle, when he got Signed to BMG for Low in High School. California Son, and I Am Not A Dog on A Chain. Remember, that "rainbow Valley"" single that was supposed to appear first in the California son cycle and then in the dog in a chain cycle. And obviously, neither of those things ever occurred. I'm not saying Moz bears sole responsibility for any miscommunication, unfulfilled promises, or whatever, but there is a bit of a confusing pattern.

I also think record company's film companies book publishers etc. could do a lot better promoting artists that are not already likely to sell millions upon units, so I'm sure there's things that every record company could be doing better, but I also think that public communications and promotions of unconfirmed things – things that weren't even available for pre-ordering (officially) is an emergent pattern with Moz over the past decade, and I think it's fair to articulate that

 

[Mike Rourke]

Did Morrissey indicate he would do more to promote BOT and then after the Greek theatre walk out they quickly lost faith? Maybe offer Morrissey a chance to return the advance and get BOT back? When he refused they decided to take the loss and move on?

There really isn't that much he can usefully do to promote his albums other than not say idiotic toxic stuff that frightens off vast chunks of his fanbase and the previously Morrissey-friendly radio stations.
But the financial situation is a mystery. I'm guessing the record company paid him quite a bit of cash and maybe he feels he spent that on recording the album, so he is reluctant (but presumably not unable) to pay it back and own the album again. Shame there's no-one round here with a music industry background who understands how these things work.

 

[anonymous]

There's a big problem with Moz and Fido's assertion that "this new era of censorship, denial of free speech and cancel culture" is what's keeping big companies from signing Moz. Wherever there are big companies and big money you will find some Tories and hard Republicans in the mix, some who would likely be sympathetic to Morrissey's plight. All the recording outfits in the world can't be run by the so-called "woke mob." It beggars belief! This gives me hope that someone somewhere could still sign Moz to a lucrative deal.

Unless of course this is just another "Narcissist blames someone else for his own failures" gambit.
Scapegoating and lame excuses are as much a part of current culture as cancel culture.

 

[Crisstti]

I think too much is made of the whole 'difficult to work with' thing.
All a record company needs is for radio stations to play one or two singles off his new album, then sales of 30,000+ are pretty much guaranteed.
Morrissey doing interviews etc makes hardly any difference at all. When did anyone here last buy an album because they heard, saw or read an interview?
Unfortunately, Morrissey's clumsy political actions and statements from 2017 to 2019 rendered him super toxic to the extent that radio stations that had supported him for decades stopped doing so, despite the surprisingly good quality of the Dog on a Chain songs.
When 'Rebels Without Applause' was (kind of) released as a single, perhaps the record company were testing the water to see if radio stations would start playing his stuff again. When they clearly didn't, Capitol might have calculated that they simply couldn't afford to release it, if it was only going to sell in tiny numbers again, like Dog on a Chain.

Were sales of Dog really poor, or just poor compared to sales of his previous albums, but on line with sales of many other artists who do keep on releasing albums?

Plus, how could they not afford to release it? How much money would it cost them? The album was already fully recorded. And they probably had paid Morrissey an advance that they should want to try to recoup on.

 

[goinghome]

Do you know if he gets investors to support the recording? I just can’t understand why someone back the recording of Without Music but not the release of Bonfire. That would be high risk, you are throwing money at an artist that has no ability to release. Surely if an investor was looking at Morrissey they would have paid for the release on bonfire, not to have another album gathering dust. It’s odd, it’s so odd that I had assumed Morrissey paid for these albums to be recorded himself.

Miley Cyrus belatedly requested her backing track to be removed from I Am Veronica, and as far as I remember, a Capitol rep stated that fulfilling her wish, which they agreed to, could take quite some time as it was not straightforward. Maybe this is the biggie that's causing the delay?

 

[Crisstti]

It's really a bit of a mystery as Morrissey only makes self-serving comments and Capitol has said, well, nothing. You make some good points and sales figures and such. Supposedly this deal came about after the disappointing sales of IANADOAC and the damage done from 2017-2019 it would seem that Capitol knew what they were getting.

Did Morrissey indicate he would do more to promote BOT and then after the Greek theatre walk out they quickly lost faith? Maybe offer Morrissey a chance to return the advance and get BOT back? When he refused they decided to take the loss and move on?

I'm guessing it wasn't one thing but a combination of things that made Capitol decide not to release BOT. Then of course the question remains... was there ever really a deal with Capitol?

How could there not have been? Didn't they release Rebels Without Applause?

 

[goinghome]

The sad probable outcome if Capitol release Bonfire...it sells only to die-hard fans like us (because so many people these days download for free and never buy albums), Moz isn't happy with the promotion/sales, and at the next concert Moz and gang wear 'F Capitol' t-shirts on stage. Same for whoever releases Without Music. If Moz reached #2 in album charts he'd complain about not hitting #1.

On the other hand look at Gary Numan. When his excellent album 'Savage' reached #2 in UK charts he cried with happiness and relief. Worth noting that Savage started as a 'Pledge' album.

In my opinion Moz should self-release Without Music on his own indie label like other very reputable artists do. Same for Bonfire if he has the legal right to do that. They'd sell out at every concert and then he could sell them online. The appetite for Moz albums is out there and now is the time for Moz to bypass the blockers and adapt. Moz shouldn't see it as a step backwards, it's just a step in a different direction and gives him forward momentum. He should see it as exciting and liberating.

Do artists release material themselves through an individual/small company who has the knowhow, experience and skills to handle all the various elements and fits the mindset? Also, is a 'Pledge' project a crowdfunding effort? It would be a big change. I don't know

 

[Stephen Hofmann]

There is no need to ever read another article from her.

Ok, there was never a need to read one in the first place but she literally keeps writing the same thing over and over and it's basically parroting whatever Morrissey says. Also, let's not pretend I actually read the article. I read one of hers rants once and it was one too many.

Who cares that tours are doing well?
The labels don't because Morrissey isn't willing to cut the label in on the ticket sales or the merch sales. That's what they want. They want a 360 deal where they can get paid for everything he does in exchange for putting out a record that will have marginal sales and not make any money.

There is no reason for any label to sign him at this point.

He was charging £15 more than on the website for those T's. £35 for a t-shirt..........pretty outragious for a bit of cotton.

 

[Crisstti]

Miley Cyrus belatedly requested her backing track to be removed from I Am Veronica, and as far as I remember, a Capitol rep stated that fulfilling her wish, which they agreed to, could take quite some time as it was not straightforward. Maybe this is the biggie that's causing the delay?

Seems like it should be pretty straightforward. I'm not sure how something like that could take very long at all.

 

[SuedeMoz]

How could there not have been? Didn't they release Rebels Without Applause?

What appears on Spotify, and Captitol is part of UMG:

Our Labels & Brands - UMG

Universal Music Group is home to the most iconic and influential labels & brands in music.

www.universalmusic.com

So yeah, it appears there was/is a deal with Capitol. Other than the deal being real... we still don't know a whole lot.