40th anniv, petition Johnny Marr to send Morrissey a song

[Anonymous]

Song's can be instrumental too.

Not in my view - if there are no words or vocal melody, it's not a song, it's just music.

So Johnny never wrote or gave songs to Morrissey. He composed, usually, basic backing tracks with some rudimentary guitar melodies , sometimes I think the band composed the backing track together, with Andy's bass line being the key melody at that stage, then Marr gave them to Morrissey who then recorded his vocal melodies/words. That's when the song was created. So the songs were Morrissey's, the music was Marr's, or Marr/Rourke, or sometimes Marr/Rourke/John Porter. Take away the backing music again, and you'd still have the song (the vocal melody and words). Once the song had been created, it was then usually beefed up in studio - now that the vocal melody was in place, layers of guitar harmonies could be added.

 

[Anonymous]

I thought the petition was that J Marr knocks on Morrissey's door again. Just to close the circle. It would be nice.

They could make a documentary round it, and film him going up to Morrissey's door and knocking on it.

I wouldn't put it past Marr to sign up to that.

It would also close the circle by recalling that day of the video shoot not long before they split, when Morrissey failed to turn up and Marr went and knocked on his door, and he wouldn't answer. I think Marr said later that that was the moment when he knew the band was finished.

 

[Anonymous]

I thought the petition was that J Marr knocks on Morrissey's door again. Just to close the circle. It would be nice.

He could just carve 'Die Wanker' on it, instead of knocking. It worked for Gary Day, so why not give it a try?

 

[Anonymous]

Not in my view - if there are no words or vocal melody, it's not a song, it's just music.

So Johnny never wrote or gave songs to Morrissey. He composed, usually, basic backing tracks with some rudimentary guitar melodies , sometimes I think the band composed the backing track together, with Andy's bass line being the key melody at that stage, then Marr gave them to Morrissey who then recorded his vocal melodies/words. That's when the song was created. So the songs were Morrissey's, the music was Marr's, or Marr/Rourke, or sometimes Marr/Rourke/John Porter. Take away the backing music again, and you'd still have the song (the vocal melody and words). Once the song had been created, it was then usually beefed up in studio - now that the vocal melody was in place, layers of guitar harmonies could be added.

That’s ridiculous. Morrissey’s part of the song would not exist without Marr’s part on which it is based. Both are essential.

 

[Private Widdle]

Take away the backing music again, and you'd still have the song (the vocal melody and words).

Quite so. I am puzzled that so many people don't understand this.

 

[Anonymous]

It's not that Morrissey's 'part of the song' wouldn't exist without Marr's part; it's that Morrissey's (Smiths) songs wouldn't exist without Marr's music. In that sense, Marr's music was of course essential - Morrissey never created a vocal melody for his words out of thin air, as far as I'm aware. Marr's music wasn't always essential to the lyrics, because sometimes Morrissey had written them already, but it's only Morrissey coined a vocal melody for the lyrics that the song came into being. Before the vocal melody and lyrics are created, there is no song, just anonymous music - Had Marr given his (untitled) backing track for 'This Charming Man', to choose an example at random, to any other song writer - let's say Matt Johnson of The The - then the song 'This Charming Man' would never have existed. Matt would have added different words and a different vocal melody to create whatever it was titled - 'Song X' let's say. Once that was done, strip away the backing music to leave only vocal melody (let's say, for example, somebody did an acappella version) and you'd still have 'Song X'.

Therefore 'This Charming Man' is Morrissey's song because its Morrissey's. But it owes its existence as much to Marr as it does Morrissey. For that to be the basis of the co-credit though (which it basically is), you might Morrissey's mum and dad as well, for giving birth to him, ditto Marr's parents etc etc.

The credits on Smiths records should have read as follows:

'Songs by Morrissey'; 'Music by Marr/Rourke'. And sometimes 'Music by Marr/Rourke/Porter' or whoever else chipped in on the demo before Morrissey added his words/vocal melody.

But of course, that was never going to happen. It's interesting though that the credit did change between first and second album, from 'Words by Morrissey, Music by Marr' to a more ambiguous 'Songs by Morrissey/Marr'. I think Morrissey felt that the 'Words' credit didn't reflect what he regarded as his true to the songs - which it didn't. But in fact he was still being done out of the fuller credit that he deserved -'Songs by Morrissey'.

 

[Vegan Cro Spirit .777]

It's not that Morrissey's 'part of the song' wouldn't exist without Marr's part; it's that Morrissey's (Smiths) songs wouldn't exist without Marr's music. In that sense, Marr's music was of course essential - Morrissey never created a vocal melody for his words out of thin air, as far as I'm aware. Marr's music wasn't always essential to the lyrics, because sometimes Morrissey had written them already, but it's only Morrissey coined a vocal melody for the lyrics that the song came into being. Before the vocal melody and lyrics are created, there is no song, just anonymous music - Had Marr given his (untitled) backing track for 'This Charming Man', to choose an example at random, to any other song writer - let's say Matt Johnson of The The - then the song 'This Charming Man' would never have existed. Matt would have added different words and a different vocal melody to create whatever it was titled - 'Song X' let's say. Once that was done, strip away the backing music to leave only vocal melody (let's say, for example, somebody did an acappella version) and you'd still have 'Song X'.

Therefore 'This Charming Man' is Morrissey's song because its Morrissey's. But it owes its existence as much to Marr as it does Morrissey. For that to be the basis of the co-credit though (which it basically is), you might Morrissey's mum and dad as well, for giving birth to him, ditto Marr's parents etc etc.

The credits on Smiths records should have read as follows:

'Songs by Morrissey'; 'Music by Marr/Rourke'. And sometimes 'Music by Marr/Rourke/Porter' or whoever else chipped in on the demo before Morrissey added his words/vocal melody.

But of course, that was never going to happen. It's interesting though that the credit did change between first and second album, from 'Words by Morrissey, Music by Marr' to a more ambiguous 'Songs by Morrissey/Marr'. I think Morrissey felt that the 'Words' credit didn't reflect what he regarded as his true to the songs - which it didn't. But in fact he was still being done out of the fuller credit that he deserved -'Songs by Morrissey'.

right
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