I'm torn between liking this band because of Aziz and hating it because of Mike and Andy!

What to do, what to do?

(not really)

But Aziz and the Lawnmower Parts would be a cool name for them!

After all, Andy & Johnny were longtime friends, & assumed, maybe naively, that they'd get their fair, previously agreed, cut of the cash. If you can't trust your fiends, who can you trust?

Mike took his case to the courts, the evidence was heard, dwealt on, and a decision was made. If Mike was lying, there would have been no case to answer.

It's pathetic that Morrissey fans hate Mike & Andy. Just because they sued Moz, it doesn't change the music they made as a four-piece group, or the music that they continue to make in their current project.

If Moz wants to be bitter about the court case, that's his prerogative, but it has *nothing* to do with anyone else, & it's stupid to hate Mike & Andy for doing what they did. Put yourself in their place, wouldn't you do the same?

CREDITS

Morrissey: Words
Johnny Marr: Music
Andy Rourke: NOTHING
Mike Joyce: NOTHING

Plus, Ed Buller produced Suede�s debut. And even Brett and his boys fired him.

N�s N.

PS: Stop reading his web site... It�s really worthless and useless

Eh? What about "The More You Ignore Me, the Closer I Get"?

I don't think that you understand the role of a drummer. He is the person in a group, who writes the drum pattern. With the exception of Phil Collins, there are no other drummers I can think of, who write songs and lyrics.

As you continue, your points get more and more ridiculous. It's obvious that you hate Mike, for the simple reason that Morrissey doesn't like him.

Being such a big fan, you should know that Morrissey has never written a 'song' either. He only writes lyrics.

"Plus, Ed Buller produced Suede�s debut. And even Brett and his boys fired him."

You seem to be forgetting Suede's debut single, 'Be My God', on which Mike also played the drums.

T O N'S N

PS: Original nobody's nothing: Sorry, I wasn't aware of your existence.

Anyways, CHARMING I don't understand why you are making fun of the name. We stole it from Morrissey just as you did. Also I wonder how often BIG NOSE and CHARMING listen to Oscar Wilde or Money Changes Everything (the instrumentals)? I can bet that its not often!

Do you mean 'Oscillate Wildly'? As far as I am aware, The Smiths have never released a track called 'Oscar Wilde'. You failed to mention the other instrumental 'The Draize Train', but I'm sure that you remember this, being such a big fan. Also, If I were you, I wouldn't bet too much, you'd lose.

"I also think Mike Joyce is a idiot. Not because Morrissey hates him, but because I hate him."

Haha. Of course you don't hate him just because Morrissey does! I suppose you know him *so* well, that you can make an unbiased judgement? What is your hatred based on?

"Ever drummed yourself, BIG NOSE or CHARMING? Well I have, and let me tell you that it is not that difficult a task"

Yes, actually I have. If it's so easy, how come you're wasting time here, and not drumming your way around the world on a tour?

"WHOAAAA he played drums for SUEDE! That exciting! Wonder why he only played on one track?"

Mike playing for Suede, is probably more exciting than aynthing you've ever accomplished! He only joined to record the debut single, and was never a full time member of Suede.

I can't see any differrence between ' The original Nobody's Nothing', and the other person using the name 'Nobody's Nothing'! They both seem as bitter and stupid as eachother!

You seem to be unaware of the differrence between a 'song' and a 'tune'. a 'song' has lyrics, Spencer did *not* write the lyrics to these songs. Spencer also plays the guitar, which is the instrument, I assume, on which he wrote these tunes. As far as I am aware, Mike concentrates fully on the drums. If you play the drums, you'll know that writing a 'song' with drums *exclusively*, is impossible.

You hate Mike. This is obvious. You sound so stupid when you post your anti-Mike statements.

Life is beautiful...Go outside...Smell the flowers...Take in the seasons....LISTEN TO MUSIC, OF ALL KINDS...It will make YOU a better person...In 5, maybe 10 years time, you will realise what silly-billys you really are."Mike Joyce is an idiot"...Indeed..

After all is said and done, Mike is still an idiot. I was wondering how YOU know that Morrissey isn't telling the truth about Mike. And to anwser your question about "I'm sure you know him personally," well in a round about way I do. A friend of mine knows him and has hung out with him on several occasions. He tells me things that Mike says about The Smiths and Morrissey and they make him sound like the blowhard that he looks like. I don't even know how Mike remembers The Smiths days since he was on coke for most of them. I was wondering, since you are on Mike's nuts, why don't you go to Mike's wonderful site and post "I love you, I love you," everywhere. Need I remind you that this is a Morrissey solo site and not a Mike " no talent" Joyce site.
Also, can't you find anything better to do than correcting my spelling? I could get the name of the song correct to if I had the album in front of my face. Anyhow, I chose to skip all of The Smiths instrumentals songs when I listen to the CD's. I find them aliitle boring. I listen to the Smiths for Johnny's guitar and Morrissey lyrics. Futhermore, you don't know anything about me so how could you know what kind of Smiths fan I am.
Also, Yes, Mike has probably done more exciting stuff than me. Does that make him great? I would have loved to play drums for the Smiths, but I am not a drummer. And if I was, I wouldn't be such a loser as Mike Joyce.
Finally, don't think that since you can quote everyone, that you look smart. We all know how to cut and paste!

Keep you Big Nose where it belongs, off this page and up Mike's ass!

The mystery continues!

ENGLISH TEA!

I quote from comments I am responding to. This makes it easier for readers to see the exact point I am discussing. I never said that I was the only person who could cut and paste.

"can't you find anything better to do than correcting my spelling? I could get the name of the song correct to if I had the album in front of my face"

There is a big difference bwetween a spelling mistake, and a total misquote of a song title. Most of us don't need to study album covers to be able to name Smiths songs correctly.

"Anyhow, I chose to skip all of The Smiths instrumentals songs when I listen to the CD's. I find them aliitle boring. I listen to the Smiths for Johnny's guitar and Morrissey lyrics."

So, the instrumentals are boring? Hmmm. You say that you like to hear Johnny's playing, did you know that he also plays on the instrumentals too?

"Futhermore, you don't know anything about me so how could you know what kind of Smiths fan I am."

Well, you show a totally unjustified hatred of their drummer, you can't quote song titles correctly, you say that there are two instrumentals when there are three,... must I go on?

"I am not a drummer"

But you said in an earlier post "Ever drummed yourself,....Well I have, and let me tell you that it is not that difficult a task." If it's so easy, why don't you do it professionally? Maybe you could get Spike's job on the next tour?

"And to anwser your question about "I'm sure you know him personally," well in a round about way I do. A friend of mine knows him and has hung out with him on several occasions"

Just because your friend has met him, doesn't mean that you know him personally, in a 'roundabout way' or not! And as for your second hand stories about Mike being a 'blowhard', I'll not take too much notice of those. As we know, bitterness can change conversations beyond recognition. Be it Morrissey's or yours.

"I was wondering how YOU know that Morrissey isn't telling the truth about Mike"

There was a court case. Did you not hear about it? In the opinion of the law, Mike was on the winning side.

"I was wondering, since you are on Mike's nuts, why don't you go to Mike's wonderful site and post "I love you, I love you," everywhere"

On Mike's nuts? You are so immature! Why would I post 'I love you' on his site? Just because I refuse to fall in with you and your kind? Sorry, but I refuse to hate Mike Joyce for taking Morrissey to court.

"Need I remind you that this is a Morrissey solo site and not a Mike " no talent" Joyce site"

I see. You are now attempting to banish me from this site, just because I don't hate Mike? If you read the subject of this topic, you'll see that it's Smiths related. The Smiths are discussed very regularly on this site, Mike was a member of The Smiths, therefore this is an appropriate place to post Mike Joyce related items, as many people have done over the years.

"Keep you Big Nose where it belongs, off this page and up Mike's ass!"

This shows you for the person you are. Totally childish and unable to express yourself without being offensive. You see someone who refuses to believe every word that Morrissey utters, as a 'non-believer' and one to be banished. Grow up!

So just because two people disagree with you, you automatically think that they are the same person?

"The guy I know loves Mike Joyce and even goes to his house on occcasion"

Let's get this right. You've never met Mike, but your friend has. Your friend loves Mike Joyce, yet you post here that he is a 'blowhard'. I can't believe that your friend, who loves Mike, says this, so where do you get it from?

This is getting tiresome. Do you think that if Morrissey reads your posts, he's going to email you and thank you for your comments?

Also I apologize for being a blowhard myself. You don't have to agree with my comments. You do have the right to express your opinion even on this site.

For the record, I don't go around believeing everything that Morrissey says. I form my own opinions and one of them happens to be a negative one against Mike. If you read elsewhere on this site, (and I know you do) than you would know that I am equally critical of Johnny and Morrissey. I don't right these opinions for Morrissey to see because I seriously doubt that Morrissey checks this site. If he does than i am sure that he wouldn't like the fact that on numerous occasions I have given him grief for always playing the same songs on tour.

I also will apoligize for being so rude, however I think that you need it sometimes because what you don't realize is that if you post your opinions on this web site you are going to be accountable for backing those opinions up. The vugarity is just used to piss you off!

Also if you would have left your e-mail address than we could have had this agrument personally and spared all these readers our bias opinions!

Oh PLEASE! No matter how hard you try to convince yourself, 'Oscillate Wildly', and 'Oscar Wilde', are very different words! Saying otherwise is very silly!

Also, I have been a Smiths/Morrissey fan since 1985. I know the name of the songs and every word to them.

Good for you! Although you got into them 3 years after myself. I got into them before they were popular, and when people took the piss constantly. Although the length of time we have been fans, has nothing to do with your unjustified opinion of Mike Joyce!

"Futhermore, how do you know that my hatred is unjustified?"

Because you don't know him! This is really pretty obvious! You hate him for the simple reason that Morrissey doesn't like him.

"I think that Mike is making up his own reality in regards to his Smiths days"

And you base this on what exactly? What Morrissey has said? What you've read in the Rogan books?

"And just because my friend likes him, doesn't mean that I have to. He says nothing but good things about Mike but i for some reason don't believe him"

You are laughable! Your friend, who knows Mike, says that he is a nice guy. Yet you who has never met the man, chooses to believe that your friend is lying! Sounds like you've been brainwashed! You have no evidence on which to base your assumptions, yet you choose to believe the worst!

"I don't doubt that he is a o.k. drummer, however he was easily replacable and not deservant of 25%."

As I have already said, If the initial promise of 25% was offered to Mike, then no matter what you, I, or anyone else think that he is 'deservant of', makes absolutely NO difference. He should get what he was promised.

"Secondly, just because Mike won the case doesn,t mean that he is right. The justice system doesn't always make the right decisions"

There wasn't just a quick 10 minute hearing, you know? This case went to court on more than one occasion. The case was heard by more than one judge. Everyones insistance that Mike stole from Morrissey, and just because one judge had never heard of Top Of The Pops, and therefore he sided with Mike, is totally ridiculous! Statements were heard, paperwork was studied, Mike won the case. End of story!

"I also personally think that the judge read alittle to much of the news papers and was very bias toward Morrissey"

Thats exactly it! You're siding with Morrissey! 'Everyone is biased if they disagree with Morrissey'. And you also assume that the judges read the newspapers to reach their decision! Your arguments are groundless, & I've never heard anything quite so silly!

"what you don't realize is that if you post your opinions on this web site you are going to be accountable for backing those opinions up"

What? Everything I have said has been fact! YOU are the one who chooses not to believe your friend about Mike, YOU are the one who assumes that the judge was biased, YOU are the one who thinks that Mike is making up his own reality!

Read your posts with an open mind, and try to think of the reasons you hate Mike. There are NO reasons, other than the fact that you believe Morrissey's version of events, 100%

"Also if you would have left your e-mail address than we could have had this agrument personally and spared all these readers our bias opinions!"

My opinion is not biased! You hate Mike, you've already said this. That is the definition of being biased. You make assumptions about someone, without having never met them, and choosing to believe someone with a greivance about that person. I never said that Mike is 'the best thing since sliced bread'. You see this because I refuse to hate him, just because Morrissey does!

This thread is a VERY small part of the site. I doubt that many people read it. Besides, this site has the facility for discussion in a public forum. Why take it to email? I'm totally unbiased, and I believe what I know to be true. The whole court case is a matter of public record.

"The vugarity is just used to piss you off!"

I think this statement says it all!

If you can give reasons why you hate Mike, I'd like to see them. All you have said so far, are totally factless opinions.

& "Someone with a big nose, who knows" wrote:
"Good for you! Although you got into them 3 years after myself"

but since The Smiths performed their first gig on January 6th, 1983... you must have been there before they formed... Oh God! " Someone with a big nose, who knows" is Johnny Marr!
IDIOT!

You aren't as well informed as you think.

The Smiths first gig was at the Ritz, on October 4th, 1982.

So before you start with your snyde comments, I suggest that you go and lean a bit more about The Smiths history.

You still haven't given any reasons for your hatred of him! All you have are uninformed 'opinions', based on NOTHING other than the fact that Morrissey dislikes him! I can't think of any bad press that he has recieved, other than Morrissey's bitter comments.

"I get second hand info on Mike"

You must be correct then! As we know, second hand information is always the gospel truth!

Instead of giving opinions, give me something based on fact.

Also, The smiths first gig was on Jan 6th. 1983. Morrissey played a gig in Nov with another band, The Nosebleeds.

Even if the first gig was in Nov., you expect us to beleive that you knew about it and that you were there. I DOUBT IT!

I think the you think you are the leader of the Smiths and Little Miss Know It All. Sorry, but you are not the authority on the Smiths. Maybe you are Johnny Rogan? Your bais opinions sound alot like his! You also make up your own reality like he does! I want to see a pic of BIG NOSE.

Wrong I'm afraid! The Smiths first gig was supporting Blue Rondo A La Turk, at the Ritz, on October 4th, 1982. How many times do I need to say it?

"you expect us to beleive that you knew about it and that you were there. I DOUBT IT!"

But you doubt everything! You've already proved that through the course of this discussion! I couldn't care less if you don't believe me.

"I think the you think you are the leader of the Smiths and Little Miss Know It All"

Try and string a coherant sentence together, please? When have I said that I am the leader of The Smiths? Your posts are getting more and more ridiculous as you continue.

BE AFRAID, BE VERY AFRAID!

How many times?? The Smiths first gig was supporting Blue Rondo A La Turk, at the Ritz, on October 4th 1982!!!!! If you don't believe me, then ask the question to someone in the discussion board!! It's VERY well documented! How do you not KNOW this already? Some Smiths fan. You don't even know the date of their first gig!

"The answer was 'how ironacly' on Mike Joyce's
homepage, where he said that they were rehearsing
late 1982, and he owns some rehearseltapes dated
dec.1982."

And what is that supposed to prove? Bands rehearse constantly!

spaceboy"remember the days when there wasn't the forum after each bit of news? remember back when if there was ever a follow up to a particular news item a new message was posted on the main page? remember when you didn't have to wade through inane comments and senseless arguements to find follow ups to the said news item? i do....sigh."

And who is forcing you to read this? If you can't stop yourself from reading the posts here, I think that you are the one with the problem! Why not just ignore the posts with my name on them?

The original Nobody's Nothing "If you ask I think she can recite times and dates of every one of Mike Joyce's bowel movements."

How very intelligent of you. Your name really seems to suit your personality. Why do you assume that I'm a 'she'?

"She may use the feared cut and paste techique on you."

I'm not surprised that cutting & pasting text frightens you. You are an insignificant idiot, who knows nothing about the history of the Smiths, who misnames song titles, who hates people for no reason, etc, etc, etc.....

"BE AFRAID, BE VERY AFRAID!"

The only thing that makes me afraid, is your astounding ignorance on the subject of the group that you claim to be a fan of.

This is from the Morrissey and Smiths faq, which can be found at

http://www.cemetrygates.com/faq/faqgen.htm

What was their first gig?

The Ritz, Manchester, October 4, 1982.

But if you still don't believe me, check it out for yourselves.

1) You do not know Mike = FACT
2) You do not know Me = FACT
3) Mike won the court cases = FACT

I can provide you with facts, but you only have opinions which are factless.

Would you like to tell me why I am an idiot? I'd say that you were the idiot, with your irrational hatreds, refusing to concede gig dates, refusing to believe what your friend tells you, etc... etc.... I refuse to hate Mike Joyce. Does that make me an idiot?

You seem to now admit that the date of The Smiths first gig was 1982. Do you feel stupid for arguing now?

FACT= You do not know Mike.
Fact= You do not know ME.
Fact= Mike won the court case.

Let me get this striaght. You don't know me niether but you can call me an idiot!

Secondly, I call Mike an idiot because like i have said a thousand times before, I don't like the comments he has made. I put that in bold so that you could get it straight this time.

Also, I find it funny that you think just because Mike won the court case that that makes him a good person. Let me inform you, MRS/MR Big Nose, winning a court case doesn't mean that you are right. Ever heard of the O.J Simpson? He also won his case!

I think that you need to open you mind up alittle and stop worrying if I hate Mike or not. Even if I have no reason to dislike him I don't see why you should care so much.

Let me get another thing straight, that since I don't know the date of the Smiths first gig that means that I am not a fan? I am also a big fan of Cream Cheese, but I don't know the date it was first invented! I guess that means I will just have to stop eating it then.

Get a life Big Nose and realize that you are just a person with little opinions, just like me! In the scheme of life, you BIG NOSE are just as insigificant as I.

It's not the fact that you didn't know the date of the first Smiths gig, it's more that you insisted that I was wrong. This just proves that you are pig headed, and are not prepared to admit that you are wrong.

"Ever heard of the O.J Simpson? He also won his case!"

Are you are trying to see similarities between an American murder case, and a case of contractural law, which went to appeal twice? You obviously don't know a lot about legal issues. You are simply embarassing yourself!

Get a life Big Nose and realize that you are just a person with little opinions, just like me! In the scheme of life, you BIG NOSE are just as insigificant as I"

No, not quite. You say that because I don't hate Mike, then I must love him. This is irrational. I have not expressed any opinions, apart from that you seem like an idiot.

Maladjusted, age has nothing to do with this discussion. If you can't discuss the subject, I suggest that you stop wasting your time and mine.

Believe me when I tell you the date of The Smiths first gig. It is a matter of record.

The line up was Morrissey, Johnny, Mike and a guy called Dale, who played Bass. Mike Joined in September 1982, and Andy joined the band in December 1982.

If you want to know the setlist, it was 'The Hand That Rocks The Cradle', 'Suffer Little Children', 'Handsome Devil', and 'I Want A Boy'

Now before you repost here telling me that I am wrong again, I suggest that you ask the question on the general chat board.

"I think you know the Smithsstory very well and I have respect for that."

Well stop telling me that I am wrong then.

James Maker, a member of The Smiths?

Don't make me laugh! He danced on stage wearing high heels and banged a tambourine. This shows the level of your inteligence if you consider James as a Smith. He was a friend of Morrisseys and was there only for the visuals.I never said that there were five people onstage. I said that the Smiths were a four piece. You're really plucking at straws, just to try and make me sound wrong.

"I hope that Mike responds, about the question you asked, and I know the truth"

You just said that James danced at that gig. But now you say that the gig didn't happen! Mike will confirm what I have said.

What an ass.

Celibate Cry? I'm not surprised!

MORRISSEY
Marr

mike and andy

When did those four guys play their first gig.
And don't respond to me with dates and facts,
because I was a' legitimate' adult ar the time
'they' made history
Keep on nosing,

love and respect

If you go to the BBC RADIO 1 website you can
get the AZIZ new album on MP3 download for FREE.
You can read it on ceefax page 563, dated
friday morning Jan. 28.

Can you show me some examples of this please? One or two will do. I don't think that you'll be able to though.

"Just because she was supposly at the Smiths first gig"

Where did I ever say that? You seem to be dilusional! You need serious help for that inferiority complex!

"Thanks for caring Celibate"

Aww! How sweet! Maybe you & Celibate can form a mutual appreciation society? You both make stupid points, so I'm sure you'd get along fine!

By the way, brainbox, I'm a guy. But I'm not surprised you thought I was a girl. As we all know, your assumptions are always incorrect.

By the way, I think Aziz is an accomplished guitarist and I like both of Ian Brown's albums(on which he contributed), but he is no John Squire. This being the case, I will still purchase the new album while I wait for the Ice Cold Cube's new band and album this year.

As for Andy Rourke and Mike Joyce, you have to give them props for being an incredible rhythm section for which Johnny could throw his hooks around. I wish them all the best, and hope the new band tours the USA.

THE SMITHS.

I only wrote that he was on stage , in that period MORRISSEY was testing how to become the
'talk off the town'.He use to throw with pepper-
mints at that time to, but he couldn,t get a
candy factory sponsoring him, haha joking,you see
BIG NOSE I have a sense off humor,' I never really
heard you laugh'.

2; YOU[BIG NOSE] SAID THAT YOU WERE THERE AT THE
TIME[BEFORE THE SMITHS GOT FAMOUS] WHEN PEOPLE
CONSTANTLY TOOK 'THE PISS' WITH THEM

Will you explain please.

3;I can defend myself, and so can Nobody's Nothing
We don,t have to team up to fight your illusions

4; I DON'T USE MULTIPLE NAMES ON THIS WEBSITE.

5;I CAN COUNT

now take you medication ,big nose'

as always with love and respect,

I never said that I was there. This is what I said "Good for you! Although you got into them 3 years after myself. I got into them before they were popular, and when people took the piss constantly" Later, after I'd explained that The Smiths first gig was in October, 'Nobodys Nothing', said "Even if the first gig was in Nov., you expect us to beleive that you knew about it and that you were there. I DOUBT IT!",

Nobodys Nothing 'assumes' to much. Just because I knew the date of their first gig, he automatically 'assumes' that I'm saying that I was there. I know the date of the battle of Gettesburg, but does that mean that I was a participant?

"4; I DON'T USE MULTIPLE NAMES ON THIS WEBSITE.
5;I CAN COUNT"

What's this supposed to prove?

"take you medication ,big nose'"

How intelligent of you! Just because I know my Smiths history, and don't hate Mike Joyce, then I automatically have a mental illness.

You're a joke!

I DON'T KNOW THE SMITHS HISTORY
I'M AN IDIOT
I'M AN ASS
I'M NOT INTELLIGENT
I,M PLUCKING AT STRAWS
I;M A JOKE

I plea guilty

VIVA 'BIG NOSE'

you poor guy.

But you doubt everything! You've already proved that through the course of this discussion! I couldn't care less if you don't believe me.

To me this seems that you are implying that you were there!

Example #2 Also, I have been a Smiths/Morrissey fan since 1985. I know the name of the songs and every word to them.

Good for you! Although you got into them 3 years after myself. I got into them before they were popular, and when people took the piss constantly.

You said that you got into the Smiths three years Before I did. If i started listening to the Smiths In 1985 and you started listening to them in 1982. Where did you hear them? They didn't have an album yet. These statements also implyed that you were at the first gig!

I also think feel that people who read my posts, although they may not agree, find me to be reasonable. Your statement are always bias. You believe only in yourself, BIG NOSE! Arrogance is a dangerous thing!

Yes, but that's you! I did not say that I was there, but neither did I say that I wasn't!

"You said that you got into the Smiths three years Before I did. If i started listening to the Smiths In 1985 and you started listening to them in 1982. Where did you hear them? They didn't have an album yet. These statements also implyed that you were at the first gig!"

Let me ask you a question. Is it essential that a band have released an album, before someone can know of their existence? Have you ever heard of things called bootlegs? Not that I am saying that I did hear a bootleg, but it's possible.

"I also think feel that people who read my posts, although they may not agree, find me to be reasonable."

I don't agree! I've read a few threads where you were involved, and you seem to annoy a lot of people with your irrationality!

"Your statement are always bias. You believe only in yourself, BIG NOSE!"

I've asked you before to provide examples of me being biased before, but you chose to ignore my request! I am far from holding biased opinions. I am 100% unbiased! The only things I have stated as fact, are facts which even you now seem to admit!

"Arrogance is a dangerous thing!"

Arrogance is NOT dangerous! It can be annoying, but not dangerous! The one here being arrogant, is the person who is insisting that a person who they do not know, is worthy of being hated!

The smiths earliest bootleg you can get is the
Hacienda gig febr.4,1983.
And if you Big Nose have an earlier date, then
I appologize for what I've said, and hope we can
become best mates, haha, no I've changed my mind
again

Okay, seriously, I have nothing against you, but
you have twisted, yourself a couple off times to
much, with what you wrote, and that 'annoyed'
Nobody's Nothing and myself and maybe others.
[if I am wrong Nobody's Nothing, sorry for this]

I hope we can discuss other topics inthe future,
without hard feelings against each other.